Autopsy Round 5, 2021: St.Kilda v Richmond *MADDIE'S MATCH* *CARLISLE 150TH*

[plugger66]

Haha, well 37 years in the wilderness is nothing to be sneezed at. Being born in 1988 the only thing that resembled success to me was the 2001 prelim loss to the Lions - and even then at least I could say they were starting a 3-peat.

Saints played in 3x GF's. Honestly the 2010 side was so damned talented (I think the football community is too small for 18 teams/not enough talent to go around) they could easily have won a flag or two and this conversation wouldn't be happening at all, right? I think if they had a better coach things would have been different. I didn't rate the 2010 Pies team half as much as the Saints team.

We had a great coach. Problem was the pies had a better side. Our best side was 2005 but injuries and not a great coach cost us.

 

[The Jack]

Hope poor H##### doesn't read this forum.

 

[Saintbloke]

We had a great coach. Problem was the pies had a better side. Our best side was 2005 but injuries and not a great coach cost us.

In 2010, a few of our key players who could have made the difference, just didn't turn up on the day

 

[plugger66]

In 2010, a few of our key players who could have made the difference, just didn't turn up on the day

Yes but we weren’t the best side that year. The pies clearly were we did a fantastic job to make it a draw. Eventually the better side won.

 

[True Blue Saint]

Against a side that is happy to lose clearance. It was ridiculously poor. They have a below average ruck man who is happy to just make a contest. Ratts and the coaching staff might have rested players to attack Port hard without injury but that's a terrible model which is teaching them when it's acceptable to take the foot off. Crouch should have made us a lot harder to beat in clearance. It was a waste of money if we aren't using him the way he's best used.

Our stoppage set up is a shambles.

Our mediocre-average midfield had silver service from Ryder all of last season, and now he's gone we have no idea how to shark opposition taps, or not win a clearance unless it's spoon fed.

Skrobalak, Ratts & Ratten need to put their heads together and come up with something, because if we get smashed in the clearances against Port, we will lose by a similar margin, there's no escaping that.

 

[plugger66]

Our stoppage set up is a shambles.

Our mediocre-average midfield had silver service from Ryder all of last season, and now he's gone we have no idea how to shark opposition taps, or not win a clearance unless it's spoon fed.

Skrobalak, Ratts & Ratten need to put their heads together and come up with something, because if we get smashed in the clearances against Port, we will lose by a similar margin, there's no escaping that.

If you have little effort the set up means jack. I’ve seen 2 games of little effort. 2 of great effort. One not really sure.

 

[True Blue Saint]

If you have little effort the set up means jack. I’ve seen 2 games of little effort. 2 of great effort. One not really sure.

I agree.

Our mids are prepared to work hard one way, but Steele is often the only one consistently prepared to work as hard defensively as he is going forward.

 

[phantom13]

If you have little effort the set up means jack. I’ve seen 2 games of little effort. 2 of great effort. One not really sure.

Its both.

The effort was there in the first half against the tigers but we gave up some simple goals because of structure.

When it starts to go badly the structures go to hell.

 

[plugger66]

Its both.

The effort was there in the first half against the tigers but we gave up some simple goals because of structure.

When it starts to go badly the structures go to hell.

Is structure 3 frees in front of goal in the first quarter? I don’t think so. It’s called lack of ability by one player in that case not structure. And any structure goes to hell with no effort. As I said 21 out of 22 clearances isn’t structure. It’s complete lack of effort.

 

[phantom13]

Is structure 3 frees in front of goal in the first quarter? I don’t think so. It’s called lack of ability by one player in that case not structure. And any structure goes to hell with no effort. As I said 21 out of 22 clearances isn’t structure. It’s complete lack of effort.

From memory two of those frees came from defensive structure breaking down and players being woefully out of position on the turn around.

The clearances are both. Instead of one ball winner we have 4 guys sucked to the ball, win it and were trapped, lose it and they are out.

Its absolutely both.

 

[plugger66]

From memory two of those frees came from defensive structure breaking down and players being woefully out of position on the turn around.

The clearances are both. Instead of one ball winner we have 4 guys sucked to the ball, win it and were trapped, lose it and they are out.

Its absolutely both.

McKenzie was to slow getting rid of the ball but if you want it to be structure you find a way. The midfield was effort only. A poor structure would fluke a few clearances but no effort to want the ball means you get one of 22. Just have a feeling if a guy on big footy sees a problem with structure then about 6 coaches may also see it.

 

[gringo2011]

Is structure 3 frees in front of goal in the first quarter? I don’t think so. It’s called lack of ability by one player in that case not structure. And any structure goes to hell with no effort. As I said 21 out of 22 clearances isn’t structure. It’s complete lack of effort.

The games that I've attended this year really look like there is a lack of structure, or confusion or what ever you want to call it. I'm still haunted by the Dess game where our defence was made to look like idiots. Howard was trying to spark us in the second half and was getting up the field trying to boot over our incompetent midfield but we'd then turn it over to their defenders who would get it back into our defence with only Coffield and Wilkie back. The Dees would have 4 players inside 50 and Wilkie was running between them trying to hold up the wall while Howard sprinted back and Coffield looked terrified. It was only poor conversion that made us look okay.

The forwards bunched together, mids all seemed to stand off a player and not even on the defensive side often. Backs looked like we'd abandoned the zone but didn't have a replacement for it. Long at one point stood still and watched a player run past 15 meters away and didn't even move towards it. I'm finding it hard to get over. It looked awful and like he was trying to lose us the game. I really like his best footy and hope he gets back to it. I'm one who likes that he plays on the edge but at the moment he's playing on the edge of sleep.

 

[plugger66]

The games that I've attended this year really look like there is a lack of structure, or confusion or what ever you want to call it. I'm still haunted by the Dess game where our defence was made to look like idiots. Howard was trying to spark us in the second half and was getting up the field trying to boot over our incompetent midfield but we'd then turn it over to their defenders who would get it back into our defence with only Coffield and Wilkie back. The Dees would have 4 players inside 50 and Wilkie was running between them trying to hold up the wall while Howard sprinted back and Coffield looked terrified. It was only poor conversion that made us look okay.

The forwards bunched together, mids all seemed to stand off a player and not even on the defensive side often. Backs looked like we'd abandoned the zone but didn't have a replacement for it. Long at one point stood still and watched a player run past 15 meters away and didn't even move towards it. I'm finding it hard to get over. It looked awful and like he was trying to lose us the game. I really like his best footy and hope he gets back to it. I'm one who likes that he plays on the edge but at the moment he's playing on the edge of sleep.

So you think that’s how the coaches want them to structure up? I didn’t go to that game but it looked like the skills was the huge issue. Nearly everyone on here was bagging the skills especially hills.

 

[gringo2011]

So you think that’s how the coaches want them to structure up? I didn’t go to that game but it looked like the skills was the huge issue. Nearly everyone on here was bagging the skills especially hills.

The skills and the effort are obviously off but it seems that for what ever reason we don't have a good enough game plan or the players don't understand how to use the game plan. We seem to have the trifecta of turds. No ability to motivate ourselves, no interest in the game plan that is apparently very good and terrible skills.

 

[plugger66]

The skills and the effort are obviously off but it seems that for what ever reason we don't have a good enough game plan or the players don't understand how to use the game plan. We seem to have the trifecta of turds. No ability to motivate ourselves, no interest in the game plan that is apparently very good and terrible skills.

Who said the game plan is very good. Just because some think we wouldn’t understand the game plan or know what the players are supposed to do doesn’t mean we are dating it’s a very good game plan. I’m just saying I doubt the players are supposed to do the ordinary things that people on here seem to think they are supposed to do or people on here see an ordinary game plan but the coaches can’t. Sounds illogical to me. No game plan allows for minimal effort. Some game plans allow for ordinary skills but after last year I would hope we aren’t having a game plan for ordinary skills.

 

[phantom13]

Who said the game plan is very good. Just because some think we wouldn’t understand the game plan or know what the players are supposed to do doesn’t mean we are dating it’s a very good game plan. I’m just saying I doubt the players are supposed to do the ordinary things that people on here seem to think they are supposed to do or people on here see an ordinary game plan but the coaches can’t. Sounds illogical to me. No game plan allows for minimal effort. Some game plans allow for ordinary skills but after last year I would hope we aren’t having a game plan for ordinary skills.

Whether deliberate or accidental the structures and game plan are falling over.

Again it’s not one or the other. It’s both

 

[plugger66]

Whether deliberate or accidental the structures and game plan are falling over.

Again it’s not one or the other. It’s both

Yep lack of effort does that. Most game plans would expect full effort. We have won both games we had full effort.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Going back to Perth over the weekend and spending some time with his family should have helped Hill as well.

He wouldn't have got back there since last preseason with all the border closures so I'm sure that time away would have helped clear mind and relieve some of the pressure he was feeling.

It certainly helped me spending two weeks there just now when I hadn’t seen my son for 15 months - and I don’t even have to play football
Its been tough to have trips booked and cancelled a couple of times.

Hope it helps him come back in the right frame of mind too.

 

[Sully111]

So you think that’s how the coaches want them to structure up? I didn’t go to that game but it looked like the skills was the huge issue. Nearly everyone on here was bagging the skills especially hills.

I was at the Dees game. we were a mess. We looked really unorganised. We looked poorly coached.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

I won't bother discussing it any further but here's a treat;

PM me your concerns and whatever else you think needs discussing in regards to the club and I will collate it all and send it to Matt.

Legitimate stuff only please, and only if you feel the need to reach out of course. When I say legitimate I mean don't PM me calling the Saints campaigners and leave it at that. Actual substance please lol.

At least that way you'll know for sure that you have been heard.

Cheers & goodnight

If Matt replies I will deem anything less than an offer to be personally wanked off by a member of the playing group in response to my grievances as unprofessional and amateur hour.

 

[Roddy Grant]

If Matt replies I will deem anything less than an offer to be personally wanked off by a member of the playing group in response to my grievances as unprofessional and amateur hour.

 

[George]

If Matt replies I will deem anything less than an offer to be personally wanked off by a member of the playing group in response to my grievances as unprofessional and amateur hour.

Didn't receive a single PM, mustn't be that big of a deal after all

 

[AirWinmar]

Yep lack of effort does that. Most game plans would expect full effort. We have won both games we had full effort.

We played with a lot of effort against West Coast and were down by 33 at half time or thereabouts. Winning nearly every indicator except where it counts most. So we were working harder than them yet were 6 goals down. Would that not suggest our game plan/structures weren't working very well?

 

[Xxxx66]

Thank you, every day is a good day...some are better than others
I finally found a publisher who will publish the boy's adventure stories I have written so that's a big tick.
The books won't be available until after I am gone but it will be my legacy which I can leave for our children.
Our son and his partner are expecting their first child (our 6th grandchilld) in 3 months and I desperately want to be here for that. I feel like I owe our son because I encouraged him to barrack for the Saints when he was younger, and as soon as they choose a name for the little fella he will buy a Saint's membership for him.
Oh, and to see what being a dad does for him. My wife and I laughed uproariously at him when we were discussing babies in general and he said, "What do you mean babies don't sleep through the night?"

Sounds like your family has much to be proud of.

 

[PostmanBish]

Long at one point stood still and watched a player run past 15 meters away and didn't even move towards it. I'm finding it hard to get over. It looked awful and like he was trying to lose us the game. I really like his best footy and hope he gets back to it. I'm one who likes that he plays on the edge but at the moment he's playing on the edge of sleep.

Unfortunately Long seems to have two gears at the moment - Ineffective, and Loose Cannon.

It's really quite sad, as he's got so many tools which should give him the ability to play great footy, but for whatever reason he's skipping that middle gear of "Playing to his potential".

I think we really need Paddy back to steady the ship - Richmond had 6 or 7 players more experienced than our most experienced last weekend (which was Hill on 173 games), and I think that's still a huge part of our problem - we lack the steady old head, and are relying on a player who is completely out of form to pull us out of a hole.