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Society/Culture Should a trade apprenticeship be valued as highly as a university degree ?
- Thread starter Morrison33
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- Oct 7, 2002
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If you won $100 million would you keep your job?
No, I'd do another job.
There's some absolutely ******* useless uni degrees, I can't say the same for trades - they are all useful.
But people involved in things like science and medicine drive the world forward and deserve every bit of recognition they get.
But people involved in things like science and medicine drive the world forward and deserve every bit of recognition they get.
The reason for this is unfortunately, most people in all honesty would rather spend their money on a new house or renovation than pay for someone they don't know to get the care they need.
Until they or their loved ones become that person who need care, of course.
It's called hyperbolic discounting - we don't value things that may / will happen in the future as much as the immediate.
Better Loosen Up
Brownlow Medallist
Yes, I believe both should be equal. Therefore TAFE graduates should have a HECS debt in the tens of thousands by the time they finish.
if it's a lawyer versus carpentry, then uni by a street mile...
You wouldn't be licensed to do it though.
Poor Anology.
Your plumbing is probably the equivalent of me reading a book and understanding the basics of personal income tax returns and structures and being able to lodge a basic tax return on the ATO website.
I'm sure you couldn't read a book and an hour later safely install a high pressure acid line for a quarry. Or run multiple gas lines into hospital operating rooms.
Becoming a registered builder in Victoria is now more difficult than 95% of tertiary degree's.
6-7 years trade experience.
Then obtain a 2 year diploma.
6-12 month preparation for the exam.
100 page document submission for licensing, including 3 x 15 pages references inclusive of work history and projects.
3 references then have a 20 minute phone call going through all parts of work history.
3 hours written exam. If you pass:
3 hours verbal exam in front of a panel
$100,000 in liquid equity has to also be shown.
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That's the final licensing requirement.
I'm not including the exams in your apprenticeship, the 2 year diploma and the 14,000 hours of on the job training you have to undertake prior to it.
No bachelor degree comes close to 14,000 hours of combined face to face learning/study. I doubt most would even cover 10% of it.
Comparing it to something like a CPA license, again, I don’t think you have to provide bank statements that prove $100k for that either when sitting the exam.
If you are talking about a CB-U, then that's a different story all together. Obtaining a CB-U is about as hard as obtaining a specialization in Neurosurgery. Arguably harder. They are probably worth in the region of $10-$15m if you have one. if you are good enough to qualify for one you are probably in a few dozen in the country, then you have to be fortunate enough to awarded one from the eligible pool.
The VBA awards 1 CB-U license per year.
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Yeah, ok, whatever.
Luckily I'm the only one in the conversation that holds a bachelors, a masters and a DB-U, CB-L.
Before you ask, the bachelors and masters are in Civil Engineering.
The latter two are MUCH harder to obtain then the former two.
Had a look through the registration process for a domestic builder (unlimited) and there's a fair bit of evidence you need to provide, as well as needing several years of experience and getting a diploma-level qualification. But, to be honest, it's not much different to what a teacher has to provide registration boards to go from graduate level registration (which requires some of the same stuff) to proficient.
Because most people who go through it aren't quick to disrespect it.
You clearly have a pretty low opinion on trades.
I'm not across the the requirements completely. But having read it, I'd say they are fairly different.
From what I read, the teaching assessment is essentially being observed during your work on your teaching proficiency and methods.
The oral examination in the DBU is 3 assessors throwing questions at you for 3 hours, you are only allowed a limited number of misses. They also throw in 3-4 incorrect and unanswerable questions to test your logic and ability to admit your inability to answer them. As a close to a genuine grilling as you are ever likely to get in any form of educational assessment.
The written exam is proficiency of being across around 7-10 Statutory Acts and Standards including the NCC. Most of these are around 300-400 pages in size.
Again, they test you, they determine your weakness' based on the written exam and generally grill you in the areas you are weak in, in your oral.
I'd say they are fairly different.
Also, I don't think you have to hand over bank statements during the proficient teaching examination either.
That's just to finish uni.
To qualify as a teacher and reach proficient registration (a requirement) in SA, you need to:
1. Complete a minimum of four years of uni that include two major learning areas and the teaching qualification. Eg, I did a 3 year BA and a 2 year master of teaching (5 years of study). The latter includes what you mentioned above, at each placement you do.
2. Complete literacy and numeracy tests (LANTITE) that take up to three hours each (if you're a buffoon) requiring scores that place you in the top 30% of the general population as a pass mark.
3. Compile a small annotated portfolio that demonstrates you meet/satisfy the graduate teaching standards. It's about 15 pages or so of writing with examples etc.
4. Complete another anmotated portfolio that demonstrates you meeting the 40+ proficient standards within four years of qualifying as a teacher. This is quite large, and most people will produce a substantial binder full of evidence write-ups, etc.
5. All the usual working with children checks, 30 hours of PD per year, child safety reporting training, blah blah blah.
There's a lot to it, and it takes several years post-qualification.
Time to move up and on to doing your own electrics now. Do it live if you really want to impress your mates!
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To answer OP's question, it obviously depends on context. An individual with a specific need will often value a trade higher. Society makes bigger jumps in progress on the backs of people doing degrees.
For value to the person undertaking either, surely it comes down to what best matches your skills and interests.
For value to the person undertaking either, surely it comes down to what best matches your skills and interests.
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I don't mind DIY for just about anything, but don't touch electrical work with a ten foot (non-conductive) pole. I don't understand how electrickery works and as far as I'm concerned, it's the devil's magic.
Household wiring for the most part is quite simple but yes there is zero margin for error dealing with electricity so not a good idea.
