Analysis Our Backline

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BrunoV said:
The defence is clearly going to be in transition over the next 2 years and it will be interesting to see how it is managed. I don't see how with the aging of Hurley and Hooker and the loss of Saad and McKenna it can be considered a strength.

Seems to me that McGuane raises more questions than anything else. Hurley is mediocre unless he is playing on an opponent (i.e. locking down). In an intercepting role he's taking game time from someone, be it Francis, Reid or Cox. Hooker also has his problems these days. Add in Ambrose and we're not going to get a look at a kid any time soon.

If we look at the defence as 7 man team which is what we have tended to play I'd be looking at something like:

SD: Redman | FB: Hurley (Brand) | 3TD: Francis
HB1: Ridley | CHB: Hooker (Reid) | HB2: McQuillan (Guelfi)
7D: Heppell (Cox)

Played named in brackets are alternatives.

I'd like to see Hurley and Hooker rotated in and out of the side to enable us to rotate Brand and Reid through those position. Cox is a little different as he can play multiple roles, including as a mid-sized player.

I've been of the view that we need to move Heppell out of the middle and that half back makes sense given the dilution of experience in defence that will happen with time. It should be noted that there is no obvious replacement for Heppell in the middle. Perkins is not going to play senior midfield minutes next year and Caldwell even at best is just more of the same. I'm torn and will probably change my mind on Heppell playing in defence.

I'd also like to see McQuillan play each game he is fit to play but admit that could fall flat. It would not be an indictment if he is not ready having missed out on playing serious matches in 2020 in what was his first year of Australian football.
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We've been pretty blessed, since Fletcher we've never really not had a genuinely quality KPD in the side; Fletcher, Hooker, Carlisle and Hurley. Now we're seeing a bit of a lull to see if the next group (Brand + Reid being the major two) can carry the can moving forward.
 
BrunoV said:
The defence is clearly going to be in transition over the next 2 years and it will be interesting to see how it is managed. I don't see how with the aging of Hurley and Hooker and the loss of Saad and McKenna it can be considered a strength.

Seems to me that McGuane raises more questions than anything else. Hurley is mediocre unless he is playing on an opponent (i.e. locking down). In an intercepting role he's taking game time from someone, be it Francis, Reid or Cox. Hooker also has his problems these days. Add in Ambrose and we're not going to get a look at a kid any time soon.

If we look at the defence as 7 man team which is what we have tended to play I'd be looking at something like:

SD: Redman | FB: Hurley (Brand) | 3TD: Francis
HB1: Ridley | CHB: Hooker (Reid) | HB2: McQuillan (Guelfi)
7D: Heppell (Cox)

Played named in brackets are alternatives.

I'd like to see Hurley and Hooker rotated in and out of the side to enable us to rotate Brand and Reid through those position. Cox is a little different as he can play multiple roles, including as a mid-sized player.

I've been of the view that we need to move Heppell out of the middle and that half back makes sense given the dilution of experience in defence that will happen with time. It should be noted that there is no obvious replacement for Heppell in the middle. Perkins is not going to play senior midfield minutes next year and Caldwell even at best is just more of the same. I'm torn and will probably change my mind on Heppell playing in defence.

I'd also like to see McQuillan play each game he is fit to play but admit that could fall flat. It would not be an indictment if he is not ready having missed out on playing serious matches in 2020 in what was his first year of Australian football.
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Heppell in defence will make our backline too slow. We've already lost Saad and McKenna. It also takes away from our marking through the middle, which is a huge concern. Cox at HB would be a better option whenever he's ready.

I'd try Heppell as an inside mid first. If it doesn't work, then I'd move him onto a wing.
 

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JayJ20 said:
Heppell in defence will make our backline too slow. We've already lost Saad and McKenna. It also takes away from our marking through the middle, which is a huge concern. Cox at HB would be a better option whenever he's ready.

I'd try Heppell as an inside mid first. If it doesn't work, then I'd move him onto a wing.
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It's "shifting deck chairs" but that's what happens when your midfield options are Sheil, Merrett, McGrath, Heppell, Parish, Smith, Caldwell and Clarke.
 
owen87 said:
Brand is a stopper, Reid is also a genuine KPD.

Ridley + Francis both are more your third tall / loose intercept types though, yes.
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I'm talking about the pattern that goes back a long way rather than what's just happened this year. Gleeson, Ashby, Van Unen, Francis, Ridley, Zerk and on and on. The common trait there is that 1v1 is hardly a strength, they all want to sag off and intercept mark.

Not a trait that is any good to anyone unless we can pressure the ball carrier further afield and get the game on our terms, waste of salary cap to even pay any of them if we don't get the midfield right.
 
Zach Package said:
I'm talking about the pattern that goes back a long way rather than what's just happened this year. Gleeson, Ashby, Van Unen, Francis, Ridley, Zerk and on and on. The common trait there is that 1v1 is hardly a strength, they all want to sag off and intercept mark.

Not a trait that is any good to anyone unless we can pressure the ball carrier further afield and get the game on our terms, waste of salary cap to even pay any of them if we don't get the midfield right.
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Well we did have Hooker & Hurley both playing as very strong 1v1 defenders for most of the last decade. Plus Carlisle.

Just feels like you're complaining for the sake of complaining here.
 
owen87 said:
Well we did have Hooker & Hurley both playing as very strong 1v1 defenders for most of the last decade. Plus Carlisle.

Just feels like you're complaining for the sake of complaining here.
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It's not a complaint, if anything it's actually complimentary, that's where the game is going and we're recruiting accordingly. The issue is that those attributes become flat out irrelevant unless the guts of the ground is working, neglect that and you essentially automatically have 2 parts of the ground that don't work, not one.

If we are not going to have a midfield capable of applying pressure we should avoid that kind of player and play with 6 Ambroses that play tight and don't offer anything going forward.
 
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Zach Package said:
It's not a complaint, if anything it's actually complimentary, that's where the game is going and we're recruiting accordingly. The issue is that those attributes become flat out irrelevant unless the guts of the ground is working, neglect that and you essentially automatically have 2 parts of the ground that don't work, not one.

If we are not going to have a midfield capable of applying pressure we should avoid that kind of player and play with 6 Ambroses that play tight and don't offer anything going forward.
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I think it's more that we've been blessed to have had a pretty solid defence for many years now, and it's allowed our midfield to get away with crap pressure. 6 x Ambrose types doesn't help much when your opponent is getting lace-out service from the opposition midfield.

McGrath is a two-way runner, the hope would be that guys like Merrett, Shiel & Caldwell can demonstrate the same. Shiel can do it, but threw in the towel halfway through 2020 on that front. Then you've got guys like Snelling coming off the half-forward line who did it, with the hope that someone like Smith can add to that, and Perkins (if he plays) is likely going to be doing a similar role.

I think our defence for the future is looking OK at the moment (assuming they all make it);

<small defender> - Brand - Francis
Redman - Reid - Ridley
 
Our mix down back is starting to look good for the next few years. Ridley (22) Laverde (25) Francis (23) Stewart (27) Hind (26) Redman (23) Reid (19). A small lockdown defender with decent ball use would be a nice addition.
 
Bjchan13 said:
Our mix down back is starting to look good for the next few years. Ridley (22) Laverde (25) Francis (23) Stewart (27) Hind (26) Redman (23) Reid (19). A small lockdown defender with decent ball use would be a nice addition.
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Ideally adding a good ball user to develop in the reserves would be nice but the least of our worries.


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Howard Moon said:
Ridley probably the best user in our team!
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I forgot Riidley who I don’t see moving from half back for a while.
Bjchan13 said:
Redman got his kicking boots back as well.
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Genuinely forgot about Mason.



Just to clarify, a kid who could/should end up on the wing but ease him in across half back would be nice. We don’t have many great kicks in the reserves to fall back on at the moment.


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Yoda_ said:
Just to clarify, a kid who could/should end up on the wing but ease him in across half back would be nice. We don’t have many great kicks in the reserves to fall back on at the moment.
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I have a feeling they thought Cahill could be this, similar to Caleb Daniel at the Bulldogs. Problem is, he just isn't that great a kick. Nor is Hird. Nor is Johnson.
 
owen87 said:
I have a feeling they thought Cahill could be this, similar to Caleb Daniel at the Bulldogs. Problem is, he just isn't that great a kick. Nor is Hird. Nor is Johnson.
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They totally thought this, don't think he has it cut out to be a defender to be honest. Laverde had his best game for the club on the weekend but the jury is still out as to whether this is his place/position. I think it'll be interesting to see what he brings as a defender once the back six is set in stone and we can find a KPD / wait for Reid to bulk up. Francis isn't the number one KPD for us, he plays as the second fiddle as he's a gun intercepter that launches play. Similar to Ridley, but Ridley shouldn't be played as that number one or even second big defender as that won't allow him to play how he plays/has really dominated the competition as one of the best backs.
 
It was probably the biggest area of concern at the start of the year, given what was lost in terms of experience and quality (McKenna, Saad, Hurley and Hooker) but it's proven to be quite reliable. I'm counting down the days until Stewart is fit enough to play as we definitely need someone to stand on the big boys and the combination really takes shape from that point.

In the next couple of years this is looking pretty bloody good as the back 7:


[TD valign="top"] SD: Mason Redman, 24, 188/87 (HB) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD1: James Stewart, 27, 199/100 [/TD][TD valign="top"] 3TD: Jayden Laverde, 25, 191/91 (SD) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HB: Nick Hind, 27, 180/71 (SD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD2: Aaron Francis, 24, 193/94 (3TD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] HB: Zach Reid, 19, 202/89 (3TD/KD2) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] 7D: Jordan Ridley, 23, 192/91 (Utility) [/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]


On paper we'd like another quick small. God it kills me that McQuillan left. I'm still hoping if we continue to look like a good place to be and McBride starts to emerge that McQuillan will come to his senses and a return might be on the cards. No way are we holding his departure against him in light of COVID (and Irishmen have returned a few times). There was something about that guy kicking right footed missiles with the action of a left footer. Would have been fun seeing his 2.7sec 20m burn of half back this year.

The way the combination could evolve is interesting. Laverde may well end up as the small lockdown defender or sharing that role with Redman. In time you'd expected Reid to develop into the third and then second tall (and ultimately the first). That then leaves a combination of Laverde and Francis to play 3rd tall depending on the match-ups.

Big tick to Rutten for using what was on the list to create something for now and the next 5 to 7 years.
 
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BrunoV said:
It was probably the biggest area of concern at the start of the year, given what was lost in terms of experience and quality (McKenna, Saad, Hurley and Hooker) but it's proven to be quite reliable. I'm counting down the days until Stewart is fit enough to play as we definitely need someone to stand on the big boys and the combination really takes shape from that point.

In the next couple of years this is looking pretty bloody good as the back 7:


[TD valign="top"] SD: Mason Redman, 24, 188/87 (HB) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD1: James Stewart, 27, 199/100 [/TD][TD valign="top"] 3TD: Jayden Laverde, 25, 191/91 (SD) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HB: Nick Hind, 27, 180/71 (SD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD2: Aaron Francis, 24, 193/94 (3TD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] HB: Zach Reid, 19, 202/89 (3TD/KD2) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] 7D: Jordan Ridley, 23, 192/91 (Utility) [/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]


On paper we'd like another quick small. God it kills me that McQuillan left. I'm still hoping if we continue to look like a good place to be and McBride starts to emerge that McQuillan will come to his senses and a return might be on the cards. No way are we holding his departure against him in light of COVID (and Irishmen have returned a few times). There was something about that guy kicking right footed missiles with the action of a left footer. Would have been fun seeing his 2.7sec 20m burn of half back this year.

The way the combination could evolve is interesting. Laverde may well end up as the small lockdown defender or sharing that role with Redman. In time you'd expected Reid to develop into the third and then second tall (and ultimately the first). That then leaves a combination of Laverde and Francis to play 3rd tall depending on the match-ups.

Big tick to Rutten for using what was on the list to create something for now and the next 5 to 7 years.
Click to expand...
Looks like a solid back six, I do agree that another defender with speed would be great to have as we did look pretty good in terms of back six when we had both Saad & McKenna on a few years ago. I think Heppell has a place down back now, offers that level head + leadership (even if he may potentially give that up this year or next) so don't forget him. The jury is out of Stewart being a backman, obviously needs a good run at it to develop some consistency with the role but I think there is a real opportunity for a player to take his position if a more suitable option presents itself.

I think the only players at this point that look like a lock down back going ahead are Ridley, Hind, Francis, Heppell and possibly Redman. The other spot is still being tested out and personally, I don't think a player has really come in and performed enough yet to stamp it as their role. Reid was drafted with the expectation that he'll play down there but given his body isn't there yet, it'll be a year or two until he's really ready to go. Laverde is really the only one presenting himself as an option at the moment, but I don't think he's done enough yet to show he's ready to stamp a backline spot down. His game on the weekend was great but the gap between that and his worst is evident still. Obviously needs to be backed in to be given some consistency in his game, so perhaps another preseason as a defender will provide him with that. It's interesting!
 
BrunoV said:
It was probably the biggest area of concern at the start of the year, given what was lost in terms of experience and quality (McKenna, Saad, Hurley and Hooker) but it's proven to be quite reliable. I'm counting down the days until Stewart is fit enough to play as we definitely need someone to stand on the big boys and the combination really takes shape from that point.

In the next couple of years this is looking pretty bloody good as the back 7:


[TD valign="top"] SD: Mason Redman, 24, 188/87 (HB) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD1: James Stewart, 27, 199/100 [/TD][TD valign="top"] 3TD: Jayden Laverde, 25, 191/91 (SD) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HB: Nick Hind, 27, 180/71 (SD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD2: Aaron Francis, 24, 193/94 (3TD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] HB: Zach Reid, 19, 202/89 (3TD/KD2) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] 7D: Jordan Ridley, 23, 192/91 (Utility) [/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]


On paper we'd like another quick small. God it kills me that McQuillan left. I'm still hoping if we continue to look like a good place to be and McBride starts to emerge that McQuillan will come to his senses and a return might be on the cards. No way are we holding his departure against him in light of COVID (and Irishmen have returned a few times). There was something about that guy kicking right footed missiles with the action of a left footer. Would have been fun seeing his 2.7sec 20m burn of half back this year.

The way the combination could evolve is interesting. Laverde may well end up as the small lockdown defender or sharing that role with Redman. In time you'd expected Reid to develop into the third and then second tall (and ultimately the first). That then leaves a combination of Laverde and Francis to play 3rd tall depending on the match-ups.

Big tick to Rutten for using what was on the list to create something for now and the next 5 to 7 years.
Click to expand...
that is a good line up.
Sooner we get it on the park learning to work as a unit the better.
 
Yoda_ said:
Just to clarify, a kid who could/should end up on the wing but ease him in across half back would be nice. We don’t have many great kicks in the reserves to fall back on at the moment.
Click to expand...
With the injuries we have and the gaps we are filling, I feel we're pretty well balanced right now.

I few more out would push our depth, but right now - I think we're doing ok.
 
Guelfi seems to mainly play back when he gets to play. He is quick (was in our top 5 quickest in some speed measurement thing during games last year and that list included Fanta, McKenna and Saad) and goes in pretty hard. Has some areas to work on but is the closest answer to having someone to play on small forwards and offers more than Cahill at this stage.
 
Coming into this year the backline looked pretty awful on paper but its been a pleasant surprise on numerous fronts.
Firstly Hind has been an incredible pickup. We were incredibly short on small defenders after losing both Saad and McKenna so it can't be overstated how big a find he actually is. Could easily see him playing 100+ games for us.
Ridley was our only highly rated player but he'd only done it for one year and fortunately he's not only backed it up but is perhaps even slightly better.
Francis has had a career characterised by regular injuries and inconsistent form with flashes of talent. Honestly its a bit more of the same but he's been on the better end form wise and I think there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Laverde the most surprising for me. I wouldn't say he's totally proven but he's starting to look like a solid option down back. The real question is will his move down back let him stay fit in the longer term. It worked for Hurley.
Redman struggled last year but he's regained form and is looking very solid right now. Again super important given our lack of small defender depth.
Heppell whilst not setting the world on fire I think is starting to get some fitness and form and given how inexperienced our backline is I think he will become very valuable in the role as time goes on.

That said despite my positive reviews I wouldn't say collectively as a unit we are the best defensively. Its also pretty clear we don't have anyone capable of standing a monster key forward eg Hawkins, Dixon etc. Maybe Stewart can be that guy, his injury was really unfortunate.

I don't mind the look of Brand and Reid for the long term but they will take some time. BZT I think is not quite up to it.
 
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