Autopsy Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[phantom13]

I thought it was purely a skill error by Long. Hill didn't spread far enough or urgently enough IMO. Long would have effectively been handballing to someone right next to him. By the time Long kicked the ball, Hill should have been 15 metres in front and to the right of Long if he was in the best position.

I don't think either of them should play this week anyway.

Weird scenrio cause neither of them really had much intent. If you want to draw a player you have to force them to choose neither Long nor Hill really did that.

 

[Saintbloke]

Sure Paddy will help us when he returns, but it was worrying to see how many times PA players got their hands on hit outs that were not to their advantage..in other words they attacked the ball a lot harder.
Regarding Hill, I'm not anti the guy, but I wish in my younger playing days, mainly on a wing, that so many excuses were made for me so I didn't need to go and get my own ball occasionally, or put my body on the line, and I'm not a big guy- what a feeble argument that he is only an outside player and should only need to receive..pretty much sums up where Ratts is at...not much accountabilty in the team.

 

[The Punter]

Marshall makes a difference, but he's never been a hitouts to advantage guy, even in 2019 when he broke out as a ruckman. Ryder hits it to where our blokes are AND where the other teams blokes are not. As a hit out man, Ryder is in the best five or six I've ever seen.

As a ruckman, Marshall is more a Luke Darcy type. Good personal clearance man, extra mid around the ground, excellent contested mark everywhere.

 

[Crusty Undies]

When I saw that video it looked like the players have lost trust in each other, also seems to be a directive to not short pass. That's one of those videos that looks incriminating without context. If he'd sat the ball up a bit better and a forward sprinted to get to it it would have been magic. But our confidence is so shot we kick OOTF without any pressure now. Long has had trouble staying in games but his disposal has always been good.

I disagree. Long's disposal has never been good. His handballing has been good mostly and sometimes he does some amazing kicks that trick us into thinking he's an ok kick but on the whole his disposal is average.

 

[FQFjt]

Did anyone see the footage of Gary Ayres' three quarter time speech this week? It was at once brilliant and so frustrating because every single word of it should be coming out of Ratten's mouth to our players. Unfortunately, from all the available evidence and comments from track watchers, Ayres seems to get it whereas Ratten does not.

Recommend watching in full.

 

[FQFjt]

And with all that they have not been top 4 in two decades and have not won a final since 2004.

True, but their current midfield is already undoubtedly top 8 quality: Merrett, McGrath, Parish, Caldwell, Shiel, Draper, hell even Stringer now looks like a great clearance mid. You'd be hard pressed to find a single midfielder on our list other than Steele who is better than those listed.

 

[The Punter]

True, but their current midfield is already undoubtedly top 8 quality: Merrett, McGrath, Parish, Caldwell, Shiel, Draper, hell even Stringer now looks like a great clearance mid. You'd be hard pressed to find a single midfielder on our list other than Steele who is better than those listed.

Draper is a ruckman - I'd take two St Kilda players over him.

And I'd take Gresham over Shiel and Caldwell. Wasn't that hard.

 

[FQFjt]

Draper is a ruckman - I'd take two St Kilda players over him.

And I'd take Gresham over Shiel and Caldwell. Wasn't that hard.

Good point on the rucks - point taken.

Gresham over Shiel and Caldwell is line ball at best.

 

[The Punter]

Gresham over Caldwell lineball???? Caldwell has 13 career games for 169 total disposals.

This is hyperbole.

 

[FQFjt]

Gresham over Caldwell lineball???? Caldwell has 13 career games for 169 total disposals.

This is hyperbole.

Look, Gresham is obviously a better player than Caldwell at this very moment in time. But if you were comparing the two players on potential in 3+ years time, it is definitely line ball.

My general point stands though: Essendon's midfield has overtaken ours, which is endlessly concerning.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Look, Gresham is obviously a better player than Caldwell at this very moment in time. But if you were comparing the two players on potential in 3+ years time, it is definitely line ball.

My general point stands though: Essendon's midfield has overtaken ours, which is endlessly concerning.

These things move very quickly. No one would've said that a month ago. Caldwell supposedly chose the Bombers becaue he saw more opportunities there. If we win a few games and get going again, we'd go back to preferring our midfield over theirs.

 

[FQFjt]

These things move very quickly. No one would've said that a month ago. Caldwell supposedly chose the Bombers becaue he saw more opportunities there. If we win a few games and get going again, we'd go back to preferring our midfield over theirs.

I hope you're right.

 

[plugger66]

They literally bunch all our forwards into a cluster. It makes absolutely no sense as they get surrounded by back men. Their backs sit across the front of the pack or run in from the side and constantly pick it off. I was at the Melbourne game thinking they were dumb forwards but apparently we train it. I'm not sure who is in charge of the forwards this year but it's like the most amateur thing you've ever witnessed. If you look around the league guys who run straight line leads at the ball are back in vogue and kicking bags. We are trying to play the same game as last year where the ball falls out the back to our smalls.

Your mate Bevo apparently doesn't play Wallis as a high half forward despite winning the goal kicking at the Dogs last year because he said that role doesn't exist in footy this year. Other coaches have identified that you need to adapt. We are writing formal letters delivered on horseback in the email age. You adapt or die.

Have you been to training much. Job has and denies what you are saying and how do you know we want our forwards in a bunch. I’ve never read that. You are really on a role even if you don’t have the facts you are going for it. By the way why you quoted my post and then went on that rant confuses me. My comments had nothing to do with what you said.

 

[Yawkey way]

Weird scenrio cause neither of them really had much intent. If you want to draw a player you have to force them to choose neither Long nor Hill really did that.

He should have given the handball which either draws the next player or allows hill to run it out.

Nothing at all stopping long from continuing to run to provide another possible option or to put on a block.

 

[FQFjt]

Have you been to training much. Job has and denies what you are saying and how do you know we want our forwards in a bunch. I’ve never read that. You are really on a role even if you don’t have the facts you are going for it. By the way why you quoted my post and then went on that rant confuses me. My comments had nothing to do with what you said.

Who is Job and what did he say? Apologies if this is earlier in the thread, I haven't read every post.

 

[#gosaintas]

Who is Job and what did he say? Apologies if this is earlier in the thread, I haven't read every post.

Following the Saints is pretty similar to what poor Job had to put up with

 

[plugger66]

Who is Job and what did he say? Apologies if this is earlier in the thread, I haven't read every post.

Jb. Joffa boy. Bloody spell check. He has said he has been a few times and how they played in the second half against wce is how they train. Grouping forwards together isn’t unusual at all. Many clubs do it but when you get the ball the forwards should then go in many directions and the kicker then picks the best option. Because we lack run and receive we are bombing it and with that much hang time by the time the ball arrives the players are all grouped together again. No way is that what they want.

 

[The Punter]

Just for my football education, can someone provide an explantion/rationale for grouping forwards, especially grouping marking forwards?

 

[plugger66]

Just for my football education, can someone provide an explantion/rationale for grouping forwards, especially grouping marking forwards?

You group them so when you have the ball coming forward they can actually lead into different areas. If they already in those areas then when leading they will be to far up the ground. I imagine membery and say Marshall lead to various positions and king stays at home.

 

[Pardon me]

It has merit Punter.
Prior to the inside 50 kick the forwards are grouped giving a chance of seperation either by initiating the lead or a cheeky block from a team mate giving the now leading forward a clear opportunity to mark...
Unfortunately, by the time our rushed mids get the kick away its not to a leading target but to spot inside F50 wherein everyone has time to gather under the ball for a congested pack mark.
As JB and Plugger has mentioned - the WC game was a great example of this. Since then our mids arent getting the run and carry and clear usage we'd like for this to work it seems.
I was a huge advocate of leading forwards in numerous posts but after watching the replay and recalling some (often hazy) recollections from the ground we are leading, but the kicks arent targeting our players.
I don't know what the answer is mate. I'm pretty frustrated as a supporter right now and its hard to view some things we do at clubland objectively. I just hope we can find a way out of this funk and turn the ship around, I dont want last year to be the blip.

 

[plugger66]

And another thing is if they are grouped together they can block for each other before leading. As I said it looks like crap when are forced to bomb because no one is prepared to run and receive.

 

[FQFjt]

Jb. Joffa boy. Bloody spell check. He has said he has been a few times and how they played in the second half against wce is how they train. Grouping forwards together isn’t unusual at all. Many clubs do it but when you get the ball the forwards should then go in many directions and the kicker then picks the best option. Because we lack run and receive we are bombing it and with that much hang time by the time the ball arrives the players are all grouped together again. No way is that what they want.

This is a bit of a relief.

I'm still a bit mortified that track watchers have said that our plan A from defence is Howard to kick it really long to a pack, and rely on a mark or crumbers to take it and kick it forward, but at least our forward structure is not s**t by design.

 

[phantom13]

He should have given the handball which either draws the next player or allows hill to run it out.

Nothing at all stopping long from continuing to run to provide another possible option or to put on a block.

They were virg half in half out. Hill didn’t spread enough and Long was indecisive.

Long absolutely shouldn’t have tried a 40m depth kick with a 1.5m window, that was dumb.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

And another thing is if they are grouped together they can block for each other before leading. As I said it looks like crap when are forced to bomb because no one is prepared to run and receive.

The bomb it in game plan seems to work for other teams too - maybe that’s why we’re doing it but our forwards don’t seem to be as effective getting the ball to ground like usual which what is making it so easy for players to intercept.

I think If you look at vision that shows us running ahead of theplay, this is where we are going wrong. Is that what one way runners means? I’ve always wondered what people mean when they say that. That needs to change if so.

 

[plugger66]

This is a bit of a relief.

I'm still a bit mortified that track watchers have said that our plan A from defence is Howard to kick it really long to a pack, and rely on a mark or crumbers to take it and kick it forward, but at least our forward structure is not sh*t by design.

To be honest nearly every side is kicking it long to a pack from full back. Rather that with the new kick in than kicking 20 to a pocket when he could have run that far.