Review Round 6, 2021 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

[Dalions]

Personally, I can most definitely see a role for Lester This week.
His long term position in the team, when all other defenders are fit is another thing entirely.

 

[Ralphy2017]

Who is taking Marshall or Georgiades? Andrews will get Dixon. Also not being blind defensive just don't see why you drop a player who is doing his job week in week out and is well respected and leader on the field. Do you honestly think Fagan will drop him?

I actually think Adams will get Dixon and hopefully this might allow Andrews to peel off Marshall and intercept mark. Depends if Port want to sacrifice Marshall so he drags Andrews away from Dixon. With Gardner out, Lester probably can only matchup against Georgiades (who I rate reasonably highly and IMO better than Marshall). Not happening but if Gardner was available, I would think Lester would struggle to match up on any of the 3 small and nimble Port forwards, and even if playing is role adequately each week does not mean he is an automatic selection. I think later in the season Lester and Birchall are the two backs probably under pressure.
I still believe we make the bottom half of the 8, even with Neal out for 6 to 8 weeks, but if we drop out of contention then there are going to be spots opened for some of the young guys in the latter part of the H & A draw and that is just the way it has to be.

 

[BuntonRules]

I find it interesting that people are somehow seeing Adams as really solid with the ball and Payne as error prone. Stats actually show the complete opposite and personally I much prefer Payne with the ball in hand. He is much more solid, takes good options and is a calm presence back there.

in 4 games Adams has had 16 turnovers with 11 in the last 2 games and 15 clangers with 9 in the last two games. Payne in his three games had 4 turnovers and 1 clanger.

This. I was coming round re Adams, then in 5 minutes Saturday he made 3 clangers. Payne is the future.

 

[KissKiss]

Im always a little wary of using things like the turnover or efficiency stats with small game samples. Games like the Essendon game with lots of wet weather football (ie kick forward aiming for distance most of the time) really kill any efficiency. Adams and co dont get favours for that. I think Payne has got the reputation from 1 or 2 really really bad turnovers in I think it was the Geelong game. Outside of that he was pretty good.

But personally I would agree that Payne is the future and should be in the team more than not (when fit)

 

[M Malice]

I thought this was the Carlton review thread?

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Andrews should match up ok on Dixon. He struggles against the mobile forwards, Dixon is not that.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

That’s great everyone thinks Payne is the future. Kinda hoping to win now to be honest. Or do we drop Robbo and JL and bring in Kiddy and Ely Smith because they are the future?

 

[jackess]

That’s great everyone thinks Payne is the future. Kinda hoping to win now to be honest. Or do we drop Robbo and JL and bring in Kiddy and Ely Smith because they are the future?

Payne plays at a similar level to Adams or Lester. Kiddy and ESmith are a long way off the other two

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Payne plays at a similar level to Adams or Lester. Kiddy and ESmith are a long way off the other two

How about we just pick our best team, Adam’s and Lester right now are better than Payne.

 

[jackess]

How about we just pick our best team, Adam’s and Lester right now are better than Payne.

To quote Fages “squads win premierships”.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

To quote Fages “squads win premierships”.

Yep, absolute madness picking your best side. Let alone the fact we playing Port this week. You know you basically need to finish top 4 to win it.

 

[martinson]

I don't mind Adams . He hasn't had a lot of footy. I think he'll get better with an injury free run and clean up his disposal a bit . He's quite quick for someone of his bulk. And scary looking.

Overall people are too quick to pigeon hole players after a few games . Everyone said Keays would never make it.

On the other hand we've got guys like Lester and McStay that some people will defend till the cows come home. I'm not saying they don't play a role but they're only average players. Can't fault Lester's attitude however ,you know what you're going to get and sometimes he's good.

 

[Tom14]

Payne was pretty poor v Geelong, and in any case is unavailable for selection atm. Think he has a future but some things still to work on.

 

[martinson]

Payne was pretty poor v Geelong, and in any case is unavailable for selection atm. Think he has a future but some things still to work on.

Agree with that . He has the attributes but needs a lot more experience. As you would expect. I think Adams is a fair way ahead of him if you're picking a team to play this week.

 

[jackess]

Yep, absolute madness picking your best side. Let alone the fact we playing Port this week. You know you basically need to finish top 4 to win it.

Payne isn’t available this week....

But by playing him now instead of Lester by the end of the season or next year Payne might be better.

Or if Andrews or Gardiner get injured in finals again then we have better coverage.

 

[martinson]

Payne isn’t available this week....

But by playing him now instead of Lester by the end of the season or next year Payne might be better.

Or if Andrews or Gardiner get injured in finals again then we have better coverage.

If it gets to the stage where we're half cooked for the year you just have to play Payne over Lester . Or even anyway.

Payne could potentially be a valuable player . Not knocking Froggy . He does his level best to do the job he's given . And he has improved the last 2 years. Everyone loves a battler who sticks it up the naysayers.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

If it gets to the stage where we're half cooked for the year you just have to play Payne over Lester . Or even anyway.

Payne could potentially be a valuable player . Not knocking Froggy . He does his level best to do the job he's given . And he has improved the last 2 years. Everyone loves a battler who sticks it up the naysayers.

I don’t even think battler fits him, uncomplicated and definitely not spectacular but a good solid player. Marcus Ashcroft did it for 300 games.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Payne isn’t available this week....

But by playing him now instead of Lester by the end of the season or next year Payne might be better.

Or if Andrews or Gardiner get injured in finals again then we have better coverage.

My argument is it also gives us less chance of winning, which is the idea
of the whole thing.

 

[Lazza16]

If it gets to the stage where we're half cooked for the year you just have to play Payne over Lester . Or even anyway.

Payne could potentially be a valuable player . Not knocking Froggy . He does his level best to do the job he's given . And he has improved the last 2 years. Everyone loves a battler who sticks it up the naysayers.

Payne WILL be a valuable player.

 

[martinson]

I don’t even think battler fits him, uncomplicated and definitely not spectacular but a good solid player. Marcus Ashcroft did it for 300 games.

Ashcroft and Lester aren't comparable imo . Ashcroft's place in the side was never in question in a team that won 3 straight and he was versatile.

But it's a fair while ago now I guess. 160 games to go for Froggy.

 

[spotthedog1]

How about we just pick our best team, Adam’s and Lester right now are better than Payne.

It's a tough one, and there's a bit of personal philosophy about it.

As a simplistic analogy, if I'm playing FIFA, I'll play a young 75 rated player with a maximum rating of 88 over an 80 rated player who is capped out. I'd say Adams/Lester/Payne is a bit like that. During the normal season, I'd be keen to keep chucking games at the young gun. Perhaps some form of rotation policy. I certainly don't think either Lester or Adams are completely blowing it out of the park. Both are serviceable but not amazing.

Tough one though, balancing the different priorities. Don't want to sacrifice the now, but don't want to fall in a heap at the first injury.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

It's a tough one, and there's a bit of personal philosophy about it.

As a simplistic analogy, if I'm playing FIFA, I'll play a young 75 rated player with a maximum rating of 88 over an 80 rated player who is capped out. I'd say Adams/Lester/Payne is a bit like that. During the normal season, I'd be keen to keep chucking games at the young gun. Perhaps some form of rotation policy. I certainly don't think either Lester or Adams are completely blowing it out of the park. Both are serviceable but not amazing.

Tough one though, balancing the different priorities. Don't want to sacrifice the now, but don't want to fall in a heap at the first injury.

Even though I have never played FIFA I think I still understand your analogy. Think I still have an x-box in the cupboard somewhere . Yep there are positives and negatives to both.

 

[LongLion]

It's a tough one, and there's a bit of personal philosophy about it.

As a simplistic analogy, if I'm playing FIFA, I'll play a young 75 rated player with a maximum rating of 88 over an 80 rated player who is capped out. I'd say Adams/Lester/Payne is a bit like that. During the normal season, I'd be keen to keep chucking games at the young gun. Perhaps some form of rotation policy. I certainly don't think either Lester or Adams are completely blowing it out of the park. Both are serviceable but not amazing.

Tough one though, balancing the different priorities. Don't want to sacrifice the now, but don't want to fall in a heap at the first injury.

Probably worth remembering that Adams has played minimal games over the last couple of years so he is also needing to work into a bit of game time form.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Let's hope all the players in the team at the moment play so well that those injured sit in the Twos.

One thing I noticed on Saturday is that McStay got on the lead four times to receive easy ball. One was his first quarter goal. Reminded me of Bradshaw. Several on this board have been saying for quite awhile that Dan could play this sort of role. I hope they are right.

I have not seen Dan on a lead so much

 

[lionraven]

Adams is building form as a lockdown defender. He is definitely improving game to game. I haven't seen him lose contests like in his first game. He is also building his composure with the ball. He got caught holding the ball a couple times few rounds ago but now he is slotting in well with the ball movement out of defense. I would say I have more faith in Payne kicking in congestion than Adams. As the HA season builds Id want Adams and Payne playing on the first and second KPF with Andrews on the resting ruck, mobile third so he can play interceptor. This will free Gardiner to play on the small and outbody them like Grimes on Cameron. One of Lester or Birchall will end up losing that spot to Payne. Id hazard both Payne and Adams are more agile at ground level than either Birch or Lester. With a taller backline we won't need Big O or Daniher to get back. With all of O, Daniher, Hipwood and Mcstay up the ground, our transition out of defence should improve. No player can run faster than a booming kick. Having multiple tall targets will result in a mismatch that we can exploit in the middle of the ground before one of the wingers or midfielders grnerate overlap run and a deep penetration.