Is Buckley A Good Coach?

[jathanas]

The senior coach is an important club figure and a legitimate topic of discussion. It's fair to do so and everyone has a right to express their view.

The mod team observed that the thread was dominated by a few protagonists and their points were repeated i.e. 8 years of regression vs marked improvement in 17,18 etc Pretty much everyone with a strong opinion has already expressed it here.

What further degraded discussion was the simplistic "sack FIGJAM" or "he's a legend" type posts.

This thread will remain open. If your view has slightly shifted or you have new thoughts please share. In an effort to encourage quality discussion repetitive statements and circular arguments will from now on be deleted as will silly posts suggesting that we sack a coach on match-day.

FYI Gone Critical Anzacday Maggie5

 

[jmac70]

Why are we blaming the salary cap debacle in regards to assessing Nathan?
He wanted Treloar back in 2015
He wanted Daniel Wells
He wanted Lynden Dunn
He wanted Chris Mayne
He wanted James Aish
He wanted Dayne Beams

He was given everything to challenge.
We made it to the GF and came up short and have been in decline since.

He has had this chance--twice.

Salary cap has happened at the end of this tenure---not during.

Gubby wanted Wells and Mayne, not sure who wanted Beams.

 

[Doc1763]

Gubby wanted Wells and Mayne, not sure who wanted Beams.

Ed

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Why are we blaming the salary cap debacle in regards to assessing Nathan?
He wanted Treloar back in 2015
He wanted Daniel Wells
He wanted Lynden Dunn
He wanted Chris Mayne
He wanted James Aish
He wanted Dayne Beams

He was given everything to challenge.
We made it to the GF and came up short and have been in decline since.

He has had this chance--twice.

Salary cap has happened at the end of this tenure---not during.

That’s your opinion as to how much this was Buckley driving recruiting decisions.

Even if true he was dead right if he wanted Treloar. Dunn was cheap and an excellent pickup. wells was a jet that would have been worth the risk for two years, but not three. Mayne has been a reliable contributor

Aish is a good player and like Others was dumped for salary cap reasons

Beams was a disaster and I point the blame entirely at Maguire.

The coach is not in charge or salary contracts . Even if he identified players he liked, fitting them into the cap or paying a fair price in a trade is not his responsibility

 

[Roverjg]

I thought someone here mentioned that Whately had said Buckley should be sacked mid season.
If any one heard what was said could they please summarize with some context - because that type of directness is not Whateleys style

Not correct. Whateley stated on AFL360 last night that he is an unabashed Buckley lover. Whateley stated if he was at a club and Buckley became available he would be on the phone immediately. However Whateley did say that after 10 years it was his view Bucks would unlikely make it through a rebuild

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Markfs]

What a strange world we live in...... a drunk who has memory problems giving his assessment of an AFL coach

 

[HFF]

That’s your opinion as to how much this was Buckley driving recruiting decisions.

Even if true he was dead right if he wanted Treloar. Dunn was cheap and an excellent pickup. wells was a jet that would have been worth the risk for two years, but not three. Mayne has been a reliable contributor

Aish is a good player and like Others was dumped for salary cap reasons

Beams was a disaster and I point the blame entirely at Maguire.

That said Dunn was cheap and Mayne

It's not the cost i am looking at.
It's the feature that these are his players.
He was in charge--if he didnt want them he wouldn't have taken them.

This is his team that he inherited, stripped back and moulded in his image for a decade.

He doesnt deserve another shot at it, thats the truth.
The stigma of club legend clouds the clubs and fanbase judgment on what is best for the football club.

In 2017 they found every excuse to retain him.

We are in 2021 and it feels like 2017 all over again...looking for outs to justify something that simply has no logic or merit in the idea of him sticking around for another 2-3.

 

[HFF]

Gubby wanted Wells and Mayne, not sure who wanted Beams.

If you think the senior coach had no say in players coming into the club---you're deluded.
They may have ruined the contract aspect but the players dont come without the coach wanting them.

 

[jmac70]

If you think the senior coach had no say in players coming into the club---you're deluded.
They may have ruined the contract aspect but the players dont come without the coach wanting them.

I didn’t say he had no say. You said “he wanted them.” A very high level of modality.
I’m suggesting he may not have been the primary driver.

Perhaps a little less hyperbole and more considered thought?

 

[Markfs]

I tend to wonder why we appoint footy managers and list managers when buckley is already doing their jobs .... we should have saved some money and told wright to stay with the hawks

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's not the cost i am looking at.
It's the feature that these are his players.
He was in charge--if he didnt want them he wouldn't have taken them.

This is his team that he inherited, stripped back and moulded in his image for a decade.

He doesnt deserve another shot at it, thats the truth.
The stigma of club legend clouds the clubs and fanbase judgment on what is best for the football club.

In 2017 they found every excuse to retain him.

We are in 2021 and it feels like 2017 all over again...looking for outs to justify something that simply has no logic or merit in the idea of him sticking around for another 2-3.

The cost of paying too much (either in salary or trade cost) for the wrong players is the entire reason we are in this situation.

The commitment to Buckley at the end of 2017 almost lead to a premiership in 2018. It was entirely vindictated.

 

[cityslick1]

In answer to heading of this post IS BUCKLEY A GOOD MATCH DAY COACH ?

Simply...........NO !

He has had 10 years at the helm as senior coach. was handed a premiership side made his changes picked HIS side and look at us now !

He is a great assistant but not a good match day senior coach, because the only time he had success was when he pulled back the reins and let the experienced Assistants like Longmuir, Gotch and Hocking were more involved.They left or given their marching orders and we have a team of yes men who have put the club back years.

I tend to think his shortfalls as a player have come back to bite him as a coach.

Couldnt understand that not everyone thought like him re self-motivation and self-development. Plus was obsessed with analysing & commentating on the state of the game & was stubborn with his decisions and thinking.

Now he has one of the few players he idolised as a player as his glued-on assistant, and likes the balance of him being the spokesperson and dominant personality in that relationship. Whilst other more talented coaches, with a lesser standing in the game as players, have come and gone... way too quickly.

And it seems, at least, that all players are expected to be intensely self-motivated (key role of a coach), and to develop themselves (another key role of a coach). Not to mention the stubborn team selection decisions that continue to be made, and some of the poor recruiting decisions he has overseen / rubber-stamped.

Some bad luck in there, no doubt, along with some good decisions & results. & I would still like to think that with an elite, senior list, he would deliver at least one flag (ala Blight)... but the club is in crisis, and he has been there all of the way through to help us arrive at that position.

Lastly, if anyone can identify and poach a coach (& coaching team) of the highest calibre, I reckon it is Graham Wright. We can at least live in hope...

 

[THE SALT]

Game at MCG. No Toby Greene. GWS had one fit player (or was it none?) on the bench for the entire final qtr. Dreadful loss.

But last year's was even worse. Oh boy...

And as far as being the man, I'm afraid Nathan is our very own version of Terry Wallace.

Yeah we played s**t fought back but couldnt finish. Last qtr was exciting.

Yes it was. The week prior was epic win over WCE.

So Bucks can coach when we win but not when we lose?

 

[No SPIN]

Not correct. Whateley stated on AFL360 last night that he is an unabashed Buckley lover. Whateley stated if he was at a club and Buckley became available he would be on the phone immediately. However Whateley did say that after 10 years it was his view Bucks would unlikely make it through a rebuild

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

great thanks -
As I expected.
When I read the post it seemed a self serving distortion by the poster saying “ even Whateley wants Buckley out”, so your clarification is appreciated.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Malthouse got a flag in his eleventh year so long tenures are not unheard of.

Malthouse won premierships at West Coast.

What's Buckley achieved in comparison as coach?

 

[jmac70]

Malthouse won premierships at West Coast.

What's Buckley achieved in comparison as coach?

Let’s give him the same amount of time as Mick then compare.

 

[AgroMagro]

So Bucks can coach when we win but not when we lose?

Perhaps more pertinent is the question, "Can he coach when it counts?".

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Let’s give him the same amount of time as Mick then compare.

No one other than Malthouse has won a premiership after 10+ seasons at a club. At least Malthouse had an impressive CV from his time at West Coast.

Neale Daniher (Melbourne) and Brad Scott (North Melbourne) are the only other coaches in the history of the game to enter a 10th season at the same club without a premiership and they were both dismissed at the midway point of the season.

Why is Buckley a special case? We don't owe him anything.

 

[stormskye]

No one other than Malthouse has won a premiership after 10+ seasons at a club. At least Malthouse had an impressive CV from his time at West Coast.

Neale Daniher (Melbourne) and Brad Scott (North Melbourne) are the only other coaches in the history of the game to enter a 10th season at the same club without a premiership and they were both dismissed at the midway point of the season.

Why is Buckley a special case? We don't owe him anything.

I don’t know the right answer. But using those two examples, what did that do for the clubs exactly? sacking the coach didn’t win them anything. Carlton are just as bad, saints improved last year but are terrible so far. It’s a tough one

 

[Roverjg]

Why Matt Rendell "can't see" Nathan Buckley coaching Collingwood next year

Matt Rendell has gone deep on why Nathan Buckley's time at Collingwood might be up.

www.sen.com.au

 

[jmac70]

No one other than Malthouse has won a premiership after 10+ seasons at a club. At least Malthouse had an impressive CV from his time at West Coast.

Neale Daniher (Melbourne) and Brad Scott (North Melbourne) are the only other coaches in the history of the game to enter a 10th season at the same club without a premiership and they were both dismissed at the midway point of the season.

Why is Buckley a special case? We don't owe him anything.

Why was Mick a special case? He took a super team handed every advantage by the AFL to two flags.
People like to focus on Buckley’s failure in 2018. Mick lost three flags for us!

 

[jmac70]

Why Matt Rendell "can't see" Nathan Buckley coaching Collingwood next year

Matt Rendell has gone deep on why Nathan Buckley's time at Collingwood might be up.

www.sen.com.au

Why post s**t this loser says?

 

[jmac70]

Perhaps more pertinent is the question, "Can he coach when it counts?".

Mick lost 75% of the time, “when it counts.”

 

[jmac70]

I know this isn’t the cool thing to say, but when you watch the video of Poulter getting his call up to the seniors, the players appear pretty connected to Bucks. Still think there is a bit to play out here.

 

[HeathySure]

No one other than Malthouse has won a premiership after 10+ seasons at a club. At least Malthouse had an impressive CV from his time at West Coast.

Neale Daniher (Melbourne) and Brad Scott (North Melbourne) are the only other coaches in the history of the game to enter a 10th season at the same club without a premiership and they were both dismissed at the midway point of the season.

Why is Buckley a special case? We don't owe him anything.

Not only do we not owe him anything, he was gifted a job he didnt deserve for not other reason than he was Eddies love child

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Why was Mick a special case? He took a super team handed every advantage by the AFL to two flags.
People like to focus on Buckley’s failure in 2018. Mick lost three flags for us!

10 seasons as coach

Neale Daniher (Melbourne) = 1998-2007

• 1 Grand Final
• 2 Prelims
• 6 finals appearances
• Melbourne dismissed him after Round 13 2007, when the club was 2-11.
• Melbourne made the finals in 2004-2006, before plummeting in 2007.

Mick Malthouse (Collingwood) = 2000-2009

• 2 Grand Finals
• 4 Prelims
• 6 finals appearances
• 51.49% winning record
• Collingwood retained him with a succession plan in place, as the club made the top 4 and were knocked out of the Prelim to Geelong.
• Collingwood played finals from 2006-2009, which continued for a few more years after this.

Brad Scott (North Melbourne) = 2010-2019

• 0 Grand Finals
• 2 Prelims
• 4 finals appearances
• North Melbourne dismissed him after Round 10 2019, when the club was 3-7.
• North Melbourne hadn't played finals since 2016.

Nathan Buckley (Collingwood) = 2012-2021

• 1 Grand Final
• 3 Prelims
• 5 finals appearances
• Collingwood currently sits 1-5 after 6 rounds, and look unlikely to play finals.
• Collingwood played finals from 2018-2020.

Malthouse has the best record here, and has a noted history of winning premierships as a coach elsewhere.

Scott is the worst of the lot statistically, and Daniher and Buckley are in similar positions.