List Mgmt. 2021 Mid-Season Draft

[sr36]

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Trade a top 10 talent to save being pushed down a few spots in the draft order for 2022? Have you lost your mind?

A 900 point deficit wouldn't drop you down a few spots - it'd turn pick 5 into pick 15. Pick 10 into pick 38. Pick 16 into pick 59.

We're either going to have to shell out something decent for the 900 points - either in terms of current players or future picks/impact of short fall. I doubt we'll find anything else in this draft as valuable as the 900 points we are likely to need. He could very easily be considered worth the pick equivalent of 900 points for another club, but not that much to us.

 

[sr36]

Pretty sure if we’re looking to trade him then it equates to not offering him a new contract and he’d automatically become a DFA. Not sure we’d want to trade a kid who is potentially a top 10 ND pick either so can only assume the tongue is firmly planted in the cheek.

No not tongue in cheek. The question is, is there anyone available, including this kid, who we think is worth the equivalent of about 900 points - roughly pick 20 in 2021 draft? If there isn't, and we think another club would pay that price for him, why wouldn't you do it?

 

[partypie]

Stengle second chance? adds an indigenous bloke for the team which we need more of! and a small forward.

No chance he gets picked up by anyone I don't think.

He's had multiple slip-ups both at and away from his club(s), so he's probably at the stage where he needs to prove himself to be a "solid citizen" at state league level before AFL clubs look at him again.

 

[jackcass]

No not tongue in cheek. The question is, is there anyone available, including this kid, who we think is worth the equivalent of about 900 points - roughly pick 20 in 2021 draft? If there isn't, and we think another club would pay that price for him, why wouldn't you do it?

LOL! So we could have Daicos and a kid who’d potentially go top 10 in this years draft and you want to trade him to avoid any impact on a 2022 draft pick.... Wow, just wow! Very bold, but nah!

 

[sr36]

LOL! So we could have Daicos and a kid who’d potentially go top 10 in this years draft and you want to trade him to avoid any impact on a 2022 draft pick.... Wow, just wow! Very bold, but nah!

You're talking as though all clubs rate and value kids the same. It'd be the equivalent of trading our pick in the midseason draft for a late first round/early second round pick in the 2021 National Daft. If we think he's less valuable than that, but other clubs would pay that much - why wouldn't you do it?

 

[jackcass]

You're talking as though all clubs rate and value kids the same. It'd be the equivalent of trading our pick in the midseason draft for a late first round/early second round pick in the 2021 National Daft. If we think he's less valuable than that, but other clubs would pay that much - why wouldn't you do it?

So we should trade a kid being touted as a 2021 top 10 ND pick for a later 1st round pick because some may not rate him that highly.... okay.

 

[Apex36]

A 900 point deficit wouldn't drop you down a few spots - it'd turn pick 5 into pick 15. Pick 10 into pick 38. Pick 16 into pick 59.

We're either going to have to shell out something decent for the 900 points - either in terms of current players or future picks/impact of short fall. I doubt we'll find anything else in this draft as valuable as the 900 points we are likely to need. He could very easily be considered worth the pick equivalent of 900 points for another club, but not that much to us.

Regardless of how far the pick is pushed out, trading a top 10 talent in order to retain a future potential top 10 pick is still the height of stupidity with no net gain. In fact I’d call it a loss, because in your scenario you’re losing 18 months of development in to that top prospect.

 

[sr36]

So we should trade a kid being touted as a 2021 top 10 ND pick for a later 1st round pick because some may not rate him that highly.... okay.

Not if some may not rate him that highly, I'm saying if we don't rate him that highly or if we don't want him due to his role. Don't pass on him if others rate him highly. Draft and trade him.

 

[jackcass]

Not if some may not rate him that highly, I'm saying if we don't rate him that highly or if we don't want him due to his role. Don't pass on him if others rate him highly. Draft and trade him.

I’d be really disappointed if we were to take any player this mid-season draft that we didn’t consider had a long term future. Poor list development, and just a disgusting way to treat a draftee. But given you’re pushing this approach I can now better understand the logic behind your dislike for trading our 2021 1st.

 

[sr36]

I’d be really disappointed if we were to take any player this mid-season draft that we didn’t consider had a long term future. Poor list development, and just a disgusting way to treat a draftee. But given you’re pushing this approach I can now better understand the logic behind your dislike for trading our 2021 1st.

If a club is keen on him, the whole thing could be done above board, if the rules allow. Hey kid how'd you like to play for Richmond. Nominate for an 18 month contract. We'll draft you, you stay in school and continue playing tac. We'll then trade you for the deal we've already done with the tigers. Not too dissimilar to how we got Jamie Elliott.

We'd be betting on him offering less value than the deal with the tigers, they'd be betting on him offering more value.

 

[Scodog10]

Regardless of how far the pick is pushed out, trading a top 10 talent in order to retain a future potential top 10 pick is still the height of stupidity with no net gain. In fact I’d call it a loss, because in your scenario you’re losing 18 months of development in to that top prospect.

I think you broke them!

 

[sr36]

Regardless of how far the pick is pushed out, trading a top 10 talent in order to retain a future potential top 10 pick is still the height of stupidity with no net gain. In fact I’d call it a loss, because in your scenario you’re losing 18 months of development in to that top prospect.

This is a specky kid who went undrafted who has looked good in a couple of games, but is currently a long way short of going in the top 10.

It won't happen, but if some club is currently keen and we could flip a mid season draft pick into 900 2021 points, it'll be a massive coup. With in draft trading, we've seen a fair few clubs trade out an upcoming pick for a future pick. It's the futures market. They are effectively doing what I'm suggesting as a possible scenario, looking at the players left and saying we don't rate you as much as what this other club is going to pay thus we're going to trade out our access to you. Needs to be a case of draft and then trade as I don't think there's future trading in the mid-season draft. But I don't see the big difference.

And this whole theory of extra development is rubbish. It's simply earlier development. All kids who get drafted get the same amount of development if they are good enough to remain in the system. Having it earlier might matter if we were projecting to be contenders in the next three years, but that's not something I'd be willing to bet on.

And if you value top 10 talent so highly, why are you complimentary of our trading of our first rounder. We're looking at a situation where we need to rebuild, we traded out Treloar and Stepho in 2020, our performance in 2021 and 2022 is pretty likely to give is two top ten picks, yet we're probably going to have to trade out something else in order to end up with two top 10 picks over that period, and one of those top 10 picks is Daicos who we are getting due to being father son.

 

[Apex36]

This is a specky kid who went undrafted who has looked good in a couple of games, but is currently a long way short of going in the top 10.

It won't happen, but if some club is currently keen and we could flip a mid season draft pick into 900 2021 points, it'll be a massive coup. With in draft trading, we've seen a fair few clubs trade out an upcoming pick for a future pick. It's the futures market. They are effectively doing what I'm suggesting as a possible scenario, looking at the players left and saying we don't rate you as much as what this other club is going to pay thus we're going to trade out our access to you. Needs to be a case of draft and then trade as I don't think there's future trading in the mid-season draft. But I don't see the big difference.

And this whole theory of extra development is rubbish. It's simply earlier development. All kids who get drafted get the same amount of development if they are good enough to remain in the system. Having it earlier might matter if we were projecting to be contenders in the next three years, but that's not something I'd be willing to bet on.

And if you value top 10 talent so highly, why are you complimentary of our trading of our first rounder. We're looking at a situation where we need to rebuild, we traded out Treloar and Stepho in 2020, our performance in 2021 and 2022 is pretty likely to give is two top ten picks, yet we're probably going to have to trade out something else in order to end up with two top 10 picks over that period, and one of those top 10 picks is Daicos who we are getting due to being father son.

Sorry, I can’t keep replying to this nonsense. I’m gonna leave it there.

 

[sr36]

Sorry, I can’t keep replying to this nonsense. I’m gonna leave it there.

I can understand why you think it's nonsense, but youre a poster who absolutely ridiculed Carlton when they traded out a likely early future first for a likely late future first and pick 19 in the strongest draft we've seen for about 15 years. Yet are satisfied with us trading one for two picks in the mid twenties in the most speculative draft we've seen, which most other clubs we're running from. So I don't see any logic in your pick trade guesstimates. I think they're nonsense too.

 

[Brisair]

Does Heath present as a forward option as well as ruck? That’s what interests me about Edwards in the medium term.

Heath is a ruck/forward. He can go forward and clunk a few and is a very good kick for goal. A better ruck than Edwards, much stronger. He is 94kg, Edwards is 78kg

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[jackcass]

Sorry, I can’t keep replying to this nonsense. I’m gonna leave it there.

Me to. It's just nonsensical.

 

[Apex36]

I can understand why you think it's nonsense, but youre a poster who absolutely ridiculed Carlton when they traded out a likely early future first for a likely late future first and pick 19 in the strongest draft we've seen for about 15 years. Yet are satisfied with us trading one for two picks in the mid twenties in the most speculative draft we've seen, which most other clubs we're running from. So I don't see any logic in your pick trade guesstimates. I think they're nonsense too.

Carlton didn’t have a likely number 1 pick FS prospect in the next draft. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Mukesh]

FWIW my take is that Ruscoe has Langdon written all over him (same size, skill, intensity and footy brain) if his hands are as good as they look and he can read it half way well in flight I’d probably prefer him over Murphy in that role.

You could be onto something there.... it'll be interesting to see how Ruscoe's career pans out, he is way more competent as a backman and more of a natural footballer than Murphy..

 

[sr36]

Carlton didn’t have a likely number 1 pick FS prospect in the next draft. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Market was the same to the buyer. GWS would have walked out of that deal high fiving and pissing themselves laughing "There wasn't even salary attached. We should have asked them to throw in Darcy Moore. We would have thrown in a future second if they had have asked for it" We had to sell some time before Daics got a bid, but it was the s**t sale you do at the last minute if any decent deals don't eventuate beforehand. What we got was the was the worst case scenario and we did the deal a year before we needed to do it.

I've got a feeling that Poulter is going to make it work out well. But god it was dumb.

 

[sr36]

Fonzie

View attachment 1115458

I've tried. I can't.

I just can't understand what they were thinking. Our backroom boys are nuffies. They weren't even targetting Poulter as they bid on another bloke and then traded the pick down a few times, they just thought a s**t deal was good value.



BTW. I'm going to get even more obnoxious and divisive.




I bloody love the Tiges. What a team.

 

[Billys Back]

Just to pick up on the bolded.

Langdon was possibly the worst “defender” we’ve had over the past two decades. He was an utter liability 1 v 1 and the ball had to come in on his terms or he was cooked. His closing speed and play reading though were elite which allowed him to be a fantastic player in a zone defense when it worked (18-19 under Longmuir). His ability to play small and tall was system based because the ball never hit the ground if the player up field was under pressure and he was against a small. It’s why he was so good in that 2018 finals series because the pressure is different in finals.

None of that is to pot Langdon because we’d be a 3-4 goal better team if he were available right now. It’s more to highlight he had major flaws in his game beyond his slow decision making. Overall it’s clearly Langdon>Murphy for the foreseeable future so with that in mind I think finding a guy like that in the mid-season draft and a KPD should be our aims.

FWIW my take is that Ruscoe has Langdon written all over him (same size, skill, intensity and footy brain) if his hands are as good as they look and he can read it half way well in flight I’d probably prefer him over Murphy in that role.

I don’t know about that.

 

[Quicky]

The other factor is that us posters tend to look too short term with needs. I've been one saying any position but ruck, but by the time this kid is 24, Cox will be gone, Grundy will be 32 and Cameron will be 30. We'll want to have a 24 year old ruck on the list then.

Plus Edward's play's forward. We need that also. The versatility gives him a better chance of making it.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Thought this Deserved it's own Thread.

We have 2 Picks in it

i have heard we don’t have salary cap room to draft anyone.

 

[Apex36]

i have heard we don’t have salary cap room to draft anyone.

We don’t have cap room to draft anyone, despite their salary sitting outside the cap.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel here aren’t you.