List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Vader]

And all Strachan will ever be is a "break glass in emergency" option and that's not planning for the future in any way shape or form.

... and that's just fine. That's all he's there for. That's his entire job description.

 

[skam85]

You missed Port's "development" ruck Sam Hayes, he's the future not Ladhams for the mob down the Road, bar for doing his ACL a while back I think there's every chance he'd already have pushed Lycett aside. Same with Freo Lloyd Meek backing up Sean Darcy, both similar ages.

In all fairness I could have listed almost every other club as examples.

 

[skam85]

He's not supposed to. He's there as a cheap "break glass in case of emergency" player, i.e. someone who is ready to come in if ROB does an ACL.

ROB's long-term replacement should/will be drafted in 2022 or 2023.

So what if ROB has a run of really poor form then? We'll just keep playing him to our own detriment.

This kind of thing is where complacency can creep in.

 

[Mutineer]

bigman

Sandy Dragons Jacob Edwards?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/received_165588562150439-mp4.1113991/

 

[Golumless]

We're definitely in need of both in this draft. We have ROB for 4 years (at least), and also a backup ruck will help out with the SANFL side and give a bit of coverage for a year or two.

 

[FR0GGY]

I think Riley Knight might just get back on an AFL list in the mid season draft now that he's proving he's a dead set midfielder that never really got the opportunities he deserved here when our midfield wasn't firing. Helps to that it appears he's finally got his body right.

Is that on him or our fitness staff?
Or is his body suited to the less professional league?

 

[kulak]

I’m all for drafting a developing ruck whenever as long as it’s free ie rookie draft pick.

I wouldn’t prioritise spending any significant draft capital. Every other position is more important.

What really matters is when Hamish sees a young ruck he likes available at a rookie pick. Would be dumb to be prescriptive about a particular schedule. Draft someone we like when they are available. (ROB approach)

If it’s 4 years and we still haven’t seen a single rookie ruck we like (unlikely), then as soon as ROB looks dodgy we trade for someone decent who can’t get a game at their current club. (Sauce approach)

Having two quality rucks for redundancy and selection pressure is fine. But if there’s a quality HBF on the board at pick 35 then that’s a higher priority than a quality backup ruck.

 

[Grenville]

... and that's just fine. That's all he's there for. That's his entire job description.

What you're ignoring is that this is not a role that we need at this point. And given that, there's no reason the list spot shouldn't be used on a developing ruck - acquired cheaply.

 

[Grenville]

I’m all for drafting a developing ruck whenever as long as it’s free ie rookie draft pick.

I wouldn’t prioritise spending any significant draft capital. Every other position is more important.

What really matters is when Hamish sees a young ruck he likes available at a rookie pick. Would be dumb to be prescriptive about a particular schedule. Draft someone we like when they are available. (ROB approach)

If it’s 4 years and we still haven’t seen a single rookie ruck we like (unlikely), then as soon as ROB looks dodgy we trade for someone decent who can’t get a game at their current club. (Sauce approach)

Having two quality rucks for redundancy and selection pressure is fine. But if there’s a quality HBF on the board at pick 35 then that’s a higher priority than a quality backup ruck.

Agreed - not advocating spending anything beyond very late or rookie picks. Historically ruckmen can be found late.

 

[Grenville]

So what if ROB has a run of really poor form then? We'll just keep playing him to our own detriment.

This kind of thing is where complacency can creep in.

Good List Management is about identifying & solving problems years into the future. Vader is either being deliberately dense, or just unable to think big picture.

 

[Red mist]

Taylor has been unbelievable, a magnificent servant and deliverer of quality moments where you just scream yes!
He shouldn’t go on after this year with us.
If he goes somewhere else, fine,
If he bleeds the club he needs to make way.
thoughts, rebukes and connections ensue.

 

[Vader]

Good List Management is about identifying & solving problems years into the future. Vader is either being deliberately dense, or just unable to think big picture.

We need to be looking at a ruckman 4-5 years before ROB reaches the end. That means drafting one in 2022/23, not 2021.

Yes, you look to the future, and seek to identify problems coming towards you. You also don't waste resources on fixing problems which won't, or aren't expected to, exist in the specified timeframe.

 

[Grenville]

We need to be looking at a ruckman 4-5 years before ROB reaches the end. That means drafting one in 2022/23, not 2021.

Yes, you look to the future, and seek to identify problems coming towards you. You also don't waste resources on fixing problems which won't, or aren't expected to, exist in the specified timeframe.

1) Late/rookie pick doesnt constitute a waste of resources in this context. Not close.
2) And again, you're assuming that everything stays constant with OBrien. Its a contact sport - blindly refusing to draft for contingency, assuming that form and/or long term injury wont be a factor in the next 5 years is poor list management.

The cost of starting that development process now is negligible. Makes it a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Deaneus!]

Kids, You don’t need alcohol to have a good time

 

[Ian_Perries_Glove]

Taylor has been unbelievable, a magnificent servant and deliverer of quality moments where you just scream yes!
He shouldn’t go on after this year with us.
If he goes somewhere else, fine,
If he bleeds the club he needs to make way.
thoughts, rebukes and connections ensue.

Agree. And make way for Fog to play there consistently and given plenty of time to own that role.

 

[cleanhands]

Kids, You don’t need alcohol to have a good time

Oh I think you will find it’s something different to alcohol

 

[kulak]

We need to be looking at a ruckman 4-5 years before ROB reaches the end. That means drafting one in 2022/23, not 2021.

Yes, you look to the future, and seek to identify problems coming towards you. You also don't waste resources on fixing problems which won't, or aren't expected to, exist in the specified timeframe.

If Hamish rates a ruck who is available in this years rookie draft, do you think we should pick them?

 

[Red mist]

Kids, You don’t need alcohol to have a good time

Yep, stoke up the edibles as well.

 

[LoBu]

Taylor has been unbelievable, a magnificent servant and deliverer of quality moments where you just scream yes!
He shouldn’t go on after this year with us.
If he goes somewhere else, fine,
If he bleeds the club he needs to make way.
thoughts, rebukes and connections ensue.

Play Walker with Thilthorpe for as long as we can, Thilthorpe will learn a lot from Walker, but would lean nothing from Fogarty.
When you look back on Thilthorpe's career you won't even remember he played a couple of years with Walker, but it will be formative to play with such a leader, particularly in career best form.
Id say Walker is half way to a new contract for next year, and that Fogarty had to find his own way into the team, not to early retire somebody for him to make it.
Fogarty is getting games and not taking his chances.

On Pixel 3 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vader]

1) Late/rookie pick doesnt constitute a waste of resources in this context. Not close.
2) And again, you're assuming that everything stays constant with OBrien. Its a contact sport - blindly refusing to draft for contingency, assuming that form and/or long term injury wont be a factor in the next 5 years is poor list management.

The cost of starting that development process now is negligible. Makes it a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

The cost is that of failing to address other, infinitely more pressing, issues with our list - which is pretty much every position on the ground, but primarily the midfield.

 

[Vader]

If Hamish rates a ruck who is available in this years rookie draft, do you think we should pick them?

Certainly not with a high pick. Maybe a 4th or 5th round pick, or a rookie pick. We have other priorities which are far more pressing for those earlier picks (starting with gun midfielders).

 

[kulak]

Certainly not with a high pick. Maybe a 4th or 5th round pick, or a rookie pick. We have other priorities which are far more pressing for those earlier picks (starting with gun midfielders).

Yes that’s why I said rookie draft. I agree.

 

[Grenville]

Certainly not with a high pick. Maybe a 4th or 5th round pick, or a rookie pick. We have other priorities which are far more pressing for those earlier picks (starting with gun midfielders).

History says small forwards, rucks and tall defenders can be found late. no one is advocating for using early picks for developing rucks. Its not complicated mate v- just a list spot and a few years...

 

[Grenville]

The cost is that of failing to address other, infinitely more pressing, issues with our list - which is pretty much every position on the ground, but primarily the midfield.

Because elite mids are so often found late/rookie list? Name them?

 

[Rags_118]

Ultimately you need both... but there is very little to no need for a developing kid, when we have ROB who is 25yo and only in his 2nd year as a full-time lead ruckman.

The time for a developing/high ceiling ruckman will come in the years before we expect ROB to finish, allowing sufficient time (4-5 years) for development, so the kid is ready to take over when ROB is heading off into the sunset. That time is not now.

Don’t agree. ROB is an average knock ruckman, excellent contested mark and has below average ball skills. His high mobility and endurance sees him rise to as a 6/10 player.

While he’s good enough to play for another 5+ years at AFL level, an upgrade would be nice for a team that is pushing for Top 6 within 3-4 years. Hence we need both a low cost fill-in like Strachan that no other club will pinch, and a young development ruckman with the potential to be really good. Ideally another Dean Cox off the rookie list!