Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)
- Thread starter Norm De Guerre
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Dunkley for 2 firsts and give those 2 to Collingwood for Moore.
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We can definitely trade some of those fringe players for more draft capital this year. We can afford it. Johannisen, Jong (not worth much anymore), Schache, Richards, Lipinski, West are all players who may look elsewhere. I like a few of those players but if we could net another couple 2nd/3rd rounders out of that lot, it gives us A) a better hand this year and more points, and B) more capital to trade for positions of need (e.g. key defence).
I think our depth, whilst good, could do with some re-jigging, and can be much rejuvinated with younger faces who can produce similar output. That way when this potential window is over we don't need to bottom out.
I think our depth, whilst good, could do with some re-jigging, and can be much rejuvinated with younger faces who can produce similar output. That way when this potential window is over we don't need to bottom out.
Have posted similar before but to go with the thread re getting a KPD in.
The best contested defenders have very solid balance (note that before this week we had statistically one of the best defences based in % scores from inside 50 so not a complete disaster).
The best one of one defensive teams have two bigs 195+ close to 100kgs and two 192+ in starting line up.
Richmond have the best tall role players:
Two talls: Balta takes best. Astbury takes the CHF. Both 195 and good sizes.
Mid talls: Grimes (193) - since Morris retired has owned this role as best in the league. Broad (192) is very importand taking the leading mid tall - killed us. Both are tough and uncompromising. And have solid bodies like Vlaustin
West Coast have similar
Bigs: McGovern and Barrass
Middies: Rotham and Hurn (is smaller but 96kgs).
Melbourne:
Bigs: May and Lever
Middies: are playing Tomlinson, then Rivers and Smith - not as strong but have speed. Have Mitch Brown if needed
Jeez even Gold Coast have:
B: Collins and Ballard
M: Lukoscious,
For us we have:
Bigs: Keath, Young, Gardner - not really comparable and only one lock.
Middies: Cordy not playing this role but smaller than bigs and are playing Wood who is not that tall. Khamis only kid coming through at 190 is more a medium but can play taller.
On that logic we need both a big and and middie.
We have five options:
1. Go unproven targets:
- McAsey - but recently signed for two years so I guess much less likely. He would be restricted out of contract so we would have had to pay for him anyway but perhaps a bit more. He hasn’t shown a big gap between Young and Gardner yet but has a lot of potential and is two years young (I think). josh Worrell also.
- Brander - too good to be a bit player behind the best twin towers in the league (closely followed by May/Lever but with the runs on the Board). Not as solid sized so not sure how he plays against big KPF.
- Ryan Garthwaite is only 192 but is built like a brick $&itshouse and a solid defender in the VFL. Appears to have lost his way a bit though after showing a lot of promise and not getting games behind a great group. Tigers also have Ben Miller but haven’t seen him play.
- Jack Payne - not settled in Brisbane and Caught behind big muscles no spine Adams. Is big and strong with good potential.
- Harrison Petty - from Melbourne was very good against us a few years ago. Has some good attributes and will want to play - at 21 he is ready.
- Hombsch was ok at PA before going to Gold Coast and can’t get a game. Is elite in 1.1 - at 194 is more a middie.
- Clavarino - from StK - was a good kid but haven’t heard from him? Behind Howard and Carlisle.
- As a middy - Cody Raak may be an option in the future.
2. Positional change
- My favourite is Daniel McStay - he is a real fighter, strong fast and mean. Would be better as a KPD but is behind the best fullback in the comp. contracted so would cost a bomb.
- Tom MacDonald from Melbourne - much better player than some indicate and if able to sit in this position will star. Is mature and strong.
- Chol - a few have talked about him so putting him here. Daw was someone I thought we would go for. If he could just focus on being a KPD - could be a star. Would still be gettable. Wonder how he is going for the Demons in the Magoos.
- Tim O’Brien from Hawks as a Middy. Not settled at the Hawks.
- Bruce - I know - I know !! flogging a dead horse BUT... but has all the attributes and can swing forward like Taylor and Lake and make a difference also. Frankly Naughton, English and JUH - with Schache as depth and Bedendo and Sam Darcy coming through is pretty fantastic. Keath, Bruce and a third tall from (Young, Garder, Cordy) with Croft (I know he is currently a forward - which loads us up even more forward but so was his Dad at the start) and Raak coming through is a better balance. Still means we need to draft a KPD but our best 22 is stronger. Very simply would you prefer a future with JUH playing or one our current fringe KPDs - good people but on talent.
3. Poach a ready made that ‘might be gettable’ - each one of these would have us adding premierships they would be that influential. Basically a Lake move but we would have to give a heap.
- Moore - can’t see we have a chance but would be just perfect
- Weitering - seems loyal but has does next 5 years playing finals sound interesting
4. Draft - don’t hear much about star KPDs. In the state leagues there will be a couple but none are bashing the door yet - will see later in the year. Obvious we have our eyes on Raak as a Middy and he does look a Grimes like player.
5. Roll the dice with injured but proven players like
- Hamling (would love him back but not sure any change in personal circumstances)
- Marchbank - very good chance and seems hard to fit in to Carlton. Would play FB for us. A little smaller - same size as Cordy but very very good 1:1. Elite CD.
- Day, Thompson (old but a star), I like Tarrant but at 32 I think too late.
The best contested defenders have very solid balance (note that before this week we had statistically one of the best defences based in % scores from inside 50 so not a complete disaster).
The best one of one defensive teams have two bigs 195+ close to 100kgs and two 192+ in starting line up.
Richmond have the best tall role players:
Two talls: Balta takes best. Astbury takes the CHF. Both 195 and good sizes.
Mid talls: Grimes (193) - since Morris retired has owned this role as best in the league. Broad (192) is very importand taking the leading mid tall - killed us. Both are tough and uncompromising. And have solid bodies like Vlaustin
West Coast have similar
Bigs: McGovern and Barrass
Middies: Rotham and Hurn (is smaller but 96kgs).
Melbourne:
Bigs: May and Lever
Middies: are playing Tomlinson, then Rivers and Smith - not as strong but have speed. Have Mitch Brown if needed
Jeez even Gold Coast have:
B: Collins and Ballard
M: Lukoscious,
For us we have:
Bigs: Keath, Young, Gardner - not really comparable and only one lock.
Middies: Cordy not playing this role but smaller than bigs and are playing Wood who is not that tall. Khamis only kid coming through at 190 is more a medium but can play taller.
On that logic we need both a big and and middie.
We have five options:
1. Go unproven targets:
- McAsey - but recently signed for two years so I guess much less likely. He would be restricted out of contract so we would have had to pay for him anyway but perhaps a bit more. He hasn’t shown a big gap between Young and Gardner yet but has a lot of potential and is two years young (I think). josh Worrell also.
- Brander - too good to be a bit player behind the best twin towers in the league (closely followed by May/Lever but with the runs on the Board). Not as solid sized so not sure how he plays against big KPF.
- Ryan Garthwaite is only 192 but is built like a brick $&itshouse and a solid defender in the VFL. Appears to have lost his way a bit though after showing a lot of promise and not getting games behind a great group. Tigers also have Ben Miller but haven’t seen him play.
- Jack Payne - not settled in Brisbane and Caught behind big muscles no spine Adams. Is big and strong with good potential.
- Harrison Petty - from Melbourne was very good against us a few years ago. Has some good attributes and will want to play - at 21 he is ready.
- Hombsch was ok at PA before going to Gold Coast and can’t get a game. Is elite in 1.1 - at 194 is more a middie.
- Clavarino - from StK - was a good kid but haven’t heard from him? Behind Howard and Carlisle.
- As a middy - Cody Raak may be an option in the future.
2. Positional change
- My favourite is Daniel McStay - he is a real fighter, strong fast and mean. Would be better as a KPD but is behind the best fullback in the comp. contracted so would cost a bomb.
- Tom MacDonald from Melbourne - much better player than some indicate and if able to sit in this position will star. Is mature and strong.
- Chol - a few have talked about him so putting him here. Daw was someone I thought we would go for. If he could just focus on being a KPD - could be a star. Would still be gettable. Wonder how he is going for the Demons in the Magoos.
- Tim O’Brien from Hawks as a Middy. Not settled at the Hawks.
- Bruce - I know - I know !! flogging a dead horse BUT... but has all the attributes and can swing forward like Taylor and Lake and make a difference also. Frankly Naughton, English and JUH - with Schache as depth and Bedendo and Sam Darcy coming through is pretty fantastic. Keath, Bruce and a third tall from (Young, Garder, Cordy) with Croft (I know he is currently a forward - which loads us up even more forward but so was his Dad at the start) and Raak coming through is a better balance. Still means we need to draft a KPD but our best 22 is stronger. Very simply would you prefer a future with JUH playing or one our current fringe KPDs - good people but on talent.
3. Poach a ready made that ‘might be gettable’ - each one of these would have us adding premierships they would be that influential. Basically a Lake move but we would have to give a heap.
- Moore - can’t see we have a chance but would be just perfect
- Weitering - seems loyal but has does next 5 years playing finals sound interesting
4. Draft - don’t hear much about star KPDs. In the state leagues there will be a couple but none are bashing the door yet - will see later in the year. Obvious we have our eyes on Raak as a Middy and he does look a Grimes like player.
5. Roll the dice with injured but proven players like
- Hamling (would love him back but not sure any change in personal circumstances)
- Marchbank - very good chance and seems hard to fit in to Carlton. Would play FB for us. A little smaller - same size as Cordy but very very good 1:1. Elite CD.
- Day, Thompson (old but a star), I like Tarrant but at 32 I think too late.
Ambrose from Essendon should also be considered. Is 29 and might be a perfect 2-3 year stop gap at full back. He's back playing VFL as a forward so he might look for a trade. Also he plays best as that lockdown body to body type which is exactly what we need.
Difficult dealing with Dodoro though.
I think a 3 year stop gap that could come cheaply is the perfect addition. This current side reminds me of Hawthorn 2012 when Lake was the missing ingredient that came in 2013.
- Jun 19, 2016
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What makes you say Payne isn’t settled at Brisbane? He’s a Queensland guy isn’t he?
Are there any good kpd's in the state leagues? Someone we don't have to sell the farm for
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- Oct 11, 2014
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Should we have a look at Harrison Petty from the Dees. They are well off for tall defenders . He is 21 197 cms , I have seen this guy a few times and rate him as a potential good defender and would not cost us a lot.
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What would brander cost/is he up to it as a front line kpd? Has all the physical traits
Don't mind him as an option. Quite a mobile defender similar to the Keath mold which I believe we should be building our backline around.
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I've heard from two different people that he's very unhappy at Collingwood right now, so maybe
BLACAE
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Not a fan of that for the sole purpose that I rate Dunks higher than Moore (who is a great defender though). Look at our game on Friday, whilst Dunks might not have made the difference between win and loss, our contest at the source would have been a lot better. Add to that he can go forward and kick a couple of clutch goals.
Our defence was beaten because our midfield was beaten, its that simple. We should be looking for a big KPD in the state leagues much like Gold Coast did with Collins. That way we don't have to give up anything bar a later pick in the draft
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manutd/dogs
Team Captain
Just allow yourself to imagine the violent, league-wide melts if we were somehow able to finagle Darcy Moore into our mits and still keep our core together. Being on here would be like watching PaddlePops succumb to the microwave, such a glorious sight to behold.
Ambrose is a free agent so you don’t have to trade for him unless they match
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And after witnessing our KPD it should be. It looks to be the final piece of the team puzzle, the game against the tigers would look a lot differently if Lynch was nullified by a capable KPD.
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Now I this i like, Richards is worth more to the pies than any other club due to the Lou Richards connection. So Richards may be viewed as a 1st rounder.
It would solve all out KPD issues and we still have Gardner/Lewy as backup.
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- Sep 21, 2016
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JJ and Schache may net you a 2nd rounder each. Plus Richards may get you a 1st rounder from the pies. Jongy may only be worth a 3rd at best.
Richards, Schache(they need any forward at this stage) and a 2nd rounder for Darcy Moore,see if Sammy can bend the pies over again.
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Schache is netting us sweet FA.
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Pies have nothing they can afford to give.
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Agree. Or using LittleG 's idea, pay the Pies $300k towards Schache's salary for a year or two, in return for a 2nd rounder. Only issue is the whole concept is getting dangerously close to selling cap space for picks, which the AFL is not supportive of
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Pies need all the picks they have to match Daicos.
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Ah right, they do. What a dumbass move it was trading off their 1st
Looking a bit forward, which is a bit fraught at this time of year, currently we only have a 1st and 4th round pick (as it stands 17 and 72).
Pick 17 - 1025 points
Pick 72 - 19 points
We are going to need 2021 second and third round pick(s) to be able to do anything.
Potential F/S or NGA targets
Priority areas of need:
Scenarios:
1. If Sam Darcy is indeed a top 20 pick (let's say he is for sake of argument). Then trade pick 17 to Geelong in exchange for pick 26 and 34. Turns 1025 points into into 729 + 542 = 1271 points. Darcy at pick 17 is 1025 at 20% discount = 820 points which is equivalent to pick 22.
2. Assume Adelaide re-signed McAsey to ensure they get maximum value for him and we are indeed interested in him. 2 second round picks are required to get it done - see Josh Schache, Jake Stringer, Marcus Adams. Trade pick 26 and 2022 second round to Adelaide for him.
3. Mitch Wallis signs at Gold Coast as an UFA. We get mid 3rd round compo, pick 47 at 316 points. Pick 34 and 47 = 858 points, enough to cover Darcy.
4. Trade McLean to Collingwood for pick 47 becomes pick 48 = 302 points because of Wallis compo. We have picks 34, 47, 48, 72 and McAsey traded in.
5. Alternative is that we trade Richards for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Say pick 23 and 56 to the Hawks.
Other things to consider:
If we target a ready made A grade KPD (e.g. Darcy Moore), then we are going to be giving up a lot (the equivalent of 2 first rounders). This could be 2022 1st round, Richards or McLean and pick 26 (or a lower pick). However, we keep our 2022 second rounder. That might be unders / overs, but you get the point.
The point of all the above is that all is not lost with no 2nd or 3rd round pick, but we are definitely going to be losing some players in order to get what we need in the door.
In my opinion we should do what it takes to keep Dunkley. Bains said Essendung are coming again and maybe others, but we should not be weakening our greatest strength. However, if we are forced into, perhaps a straight swap for Darcy Moore.
No doubt Sam Power has a plan.
Pick 17 - 1025 points
Pick 72 - 19 points
We are going to need 2021 second and third round pick(s) to be able to do anything.
Potential F/S or NGA targets
- F/S: Sam Darcy, Ewan MacPherson, Billy Kolynuik. It seems the West twins aren't on the radar
- NGA: Cody Raak, Sam Chatfield, Siddharth Rajesh, Joshua Carlyle-Marks, Loris Bayly, Ethan Councillor, Kento Dobell, Blake Scott
- Cavarra, Khamis, Weightman, Richards, Sweet, McNeil, Vandermeer, Jong UFA, Butler, Bontempelli, Wallis UFA, Lipinski, Garcia, R Smith, Gardner, Duryea, Liberatore UFA, Hayes, Cordy, Young, Martin, Scott
Priority areas of need:
- KPD
- Future ruckman (depending on how Martin goes it might an immediate need)
- Goal kicking small forward
Scenarios:
1. If Sam Darcy is indeed a top 20 pick (let's say he is for sake of argument). Then trade pick 17 to Geelong in exchange for pick 26 and 34. Turns 1025 points into into 729 + 542 = 1271 points. Darcy at pick 17 is 1025 at 20% discount = 820 points which is equivalent to pick 22.
2. Assume Adelaide re-signed McAsey to ensure they get maximum value for him and we are indeed interested in him. 2 second round picks are required to get it done - see Josh Schache, Jake Stringer, Marcus Adams. Trade pick 26 and 2022 second round to Adelaide for him.
3. Mitch Wallis signs at Gold Coast as an UFA. We get mid 3rd round compo, pick 47 at 316 points. Pick 34 and 47 = 858 points, enough to cover Darcy.
4. Trade McLean to Collingwood for pick 47 becomes pick 48 = 302 points because of Wallis compo. We have picks 34, 47, 48, 72 and McAsey traded in.
5. Alternative is that we trade Richards for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Say pick 23 and 56 to the Hawks.
Other things to consider:
If we target a ready made A grade KPD (e.g. Darcy Moore), then we are going to be giving up a lot (the equivalent of 2 first rounders). This could be 2022 1st round, Richards or McLean and pick 26 (or a lower pick). However, we keep our 2022 second rounder. That might be unders / overs, but you get the point.
The point of all the above is that all is not lost with no 2nd or 3rd round pick, but we are definitely going to be losing some players in order to get what we need in the door.
In my opinion we should do what it takes to keep Dunkley. Bains said Essendung are coming again and maybe others, but we should not be weakening our greatest strength. However, if we are forced into, perhaps a straight swap for Darcy Moore.
No doubt Sam Power has a plan.
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Northern, was more about playing regular games. He is a Queenslander and no indication he isn’t happy but all players want to play in the 22 each week and he seems to be in and out. Really like him as the big body we don’t have.
JJ would get even less than that
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