Autopsy Round 7, 2021: Hawks refuse to take the field

[Upgrayedd]

We really gonna cry about age of lists/games played ect. the Saints are so further along, they loaded up last season on guys to produce now.

Yesterday was one of the games you cant really look too much into it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I wish we had access to behind the goal footage. Would be nice to see how the Jeka, Kosi and Lewis dynamic worked, because I'm still pretty excited about what they could do with some better service (and the occasional free for having their arms chopped) and more games together.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Was our midfield really any worse than last week? Just think we came up against better opposition who worked really hard who also play the ground well.

We were utterly, utterly clowned first quarter in the clearances. Saints came in being under pressure and came out and won pretty much every clearance, We actually played better after the first quarter but the damage was done.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I wish we had access to behind the goal footage. Would be nice to see how the Jeka, Kosi and Lewis dynamic worked, because I'm still pretty excited about what they could do with some better service (and the occasional free for having their arms chopped) and more games together.

absolutely. Im still on the fence with Lewis and the thing is you dont see leading patterns, what forwards actually do. You see defenders zone off ect. but the forward craft nowdays is a thankless job. Lewis to me looks like hes not a natural forward but i mean thats me. I've never seen him live (Im out west) so im not sure what work hes doing, blocking ect.

 

[TylerDurden]

We were utterly, utterly clowned first quarter in the clearances. Saints came in being under pressure and came out and won pretty much every clearance, We actually played better after the first quarter but the damage was done.

Ryder was giving silver service. Hill was lacing blokes out from half back, and that spud Jones was made to look like Judd. All of their players out of form were getting their hands on it and growing in confidence. We were applying minimal pressure through the middle of the ground, then turning it over at will. Surprised it was only 11 goals in the end. Mind you, the Saints are no good.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Lewis doesn't look fit for the game his trying to play, to get brushed off the ball by hill that shows a lack of core strength and want for the contest.

He didn’t look right to my eye last week either. I love the guy, but something is up with his body atm imo. He looked a lot stronger in the contest when he first came into the team regularly, certainly stronger in the arms.

The whole team was just lights out against the saints, so it’s hard to be too critical.

Brad Hill torched 4 of our midfielders out of the center at one point, and no-one seemed up to chase.

As others have pointed out Lewis’stats still look ok. But his fitness seems an issue there since his shoulder injury.

Hopefully he gets a good run at it, and it’s in the rear view mirror soon. But it’s hard to fault him or anyone when the whole team has a mare.

 

[VandoHawk]

absolutely. Im still on the fence with Lewis and the thing is you dont see leading patterns, what forwards actually do. You see defenders zone off ect. but the forward craft nowdays is a thankless job. Lewis to me looks like hes not a natural forward but i mean thats me. I've never seen him live (Im out west) so im not sure what work hes doing, blocking ect.

Jeka is the most natural forward out of them all IMO. I watched him lead hard for three quarters before tiring in the fourth. Plays in-front of his man and hits the ball at pace. Reminds me of a taller Gunston. Was ignored so many times it's not funny.

Koschitzke has a tendency to start behind his man which can hurt him in marking contests but means he can use his athletic traits to get out the back more often. It's his first season as a proper forward so super impressive all things considered. He's gifted enough that he can still take marks despite the positioning.

Lewis is probably the best pack mark out of them all but needs to start using his strength to his advantage. I disagree with the prevalent notion that he's lazy but he was certainly timid last night.

 

[satan1]

What is striking to me is that 4 out of the top 6 players on the ground with the highest AFL fantasy ranking points yesterday were Hawks players (Mitchell, Worpel, Shiels and Scrimmers)

They are racking up big numbers of possessions (Mitchell had 38 for instance) but we end up kicking under 59 points and get 128 kicked against us!

This tells me our game style is fundamentally broken.

We are currently the equivalent of a basketball team who spends the entire shot clock passing the ball between each other in the back-court instead of actually attacking the basket to you know, actually score some points?

Honestly we would be such an easy team to coach against at the moment. Our game-plan is so predictable (slow movement of the ball from the backline followed by a long kick down the wing to a pack followed by another long bomb to the forward line).

That is why Gawn dominates us so often, he knows what our players have been instructed to do (long bomb down the wing to a pack after slow buildup) so he has plenty of time to find his position a kick behind the play and wait for the inevitable roost.

This is not an observation based soley on yesterday either, we have been playing this style for the better part of 3 years now and I really struggle to understand the thinking behind it.

They ended up at the top but when it mattered st Kilda had all the best players

 

[Accipiter]

l

Lewis has absolutely no chance of excelling in the Hawthorn game plan. I can’t think of any KPF that could.

My order of priority is getting a decent ruckman out there and speed on the wings. Unfortunately we have made a bed for ourselves in making BB captain (meaning he needs to be out there front and centre) when we are crying out for some spring & dominance in the ruck; sincerely hope Reeves is not too far off. I'm with many on here who want to see Day & CJ on the wings, or even a Scrimshaw for some run and dash after that second or third handball out of the middle. We need Maginness out there as a big body in the centre to block and bully, even if he isn't quite there yet. That leaves Mitchell & JOM do dish it out and Worpel cycling off the bench. This will leave us with a backline primarily of Impey, Greaves, DGB, Sicily and Frost .... With that said who's idea was it to recruit Phillips:- was it a parting shot from Graham Wright?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The age and experience difference is completely negligible. That excuse does not hold up to any sort of scrutiny.

 

[Nastyfish]

Was our midfield really any worse than last week? Just think we came up against better opposition who worked really hard who also play the ground well.

Other teams have been playing sides every week as young/experienced as we put out yesterday (and some like the crows even more inexperienced). We just need to stay the course. Remember how bad the crows were last year and now have some signs of hope? Even the swans were criticised over last two years for being crap but they were fast tracking youth and have found some players.

Will Finn, cousins, Jeka and kosi be better with 10-15 games experience? Most likely. Will we be hard to watch while kids get experience? Most likely. Will they make it? Way too early to know. But at least by end of season will have a better sense what the future rebuild task is. But we have no option but to try as the 22’s we rocked out in the first few rounds aren’t going to win much.

Some much needed sanity. Thanks for posting this - helped me start the post flogging Sunday recovery process!!!

 

[Accipiter]

Jeka is the most natural forward out of them all IMO. I watched him lead hard for three quarters before tiring in the fourth. Plays in-front of his man and hits the ball at pace. Reminds me of a taller Gunston. Was ignored so many times it's not funny.

Koschitzke has a tendency to start behind his man which can hurt him in marking contests but means he can use his athletic traits to get out the back more often. It's his first season as a proper forward so super impressive all things considered. He's gifted enough that he can still take marks despite the positioning.

Lewis is probably the best pack mark out of them all but needs to start using his strength to his advantage. I disagree with the prevalent notion that he's lazy but he was certainly timid last night.

Three tall forwards, each with different traits, can make for a huge headache for opposition defenders. Just need to sort the midfield out so they can develop synergy. This makes it more important to get Day and CJ onto the wings sooner rather than later.

 

[burner1]

I wish we had access to behind the goal footage. Would be nice to see how the Jeka, Kosi and Lewis dynamic worked, because I'm still pretty excited about what they could do with some better service (and the occasional free for having their arms chopped) and more games together.

Yep. Am sure will take a while to develop synergy. But the mix seems good - Lewis a great contested mark, kosi a mobile tall with good straight line speed and Jeka as a taller Gunston - good on lead with footskills.

On Lewis, he didn’t have his best game but thought he competed well up forward. He’s clueless in ruck but hasn’t really ever played there. Lewis always gets the best tall defender (Howard). Who else did the saints have in tall backs? Our other forwards still couldn’t capitalise.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Roger Rogerson]

4-6 weeks away, according to one I read last week.

He said to me last sat at BH he was 4 weeks away.

 

[theiaofseed]

Ah yes. Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Love the persistence. Don’t give ground. Just keep spinning you gorgeous whirling dervish.

Statistics are just bunches of numbers when they don't have context

 

[Billyc]

Yep but we also had more players with 150+ games. All in all the experience was a much of a muchness, both sides were relatively young.

Yes but what’s the point? Are St Kilda a young side? Yes. Are they better than us? Yes. We already knew that.

We did field an inexperienced side with a lot of players who have not played 20 games. That’s just a fact. Some of those players will hopefully go on to be good players. Some of them are not yet ready to meaningfully contribute at AFL level

 

[theiaofseed]

Worpel needs to play as one of our first choice rovers, if that means trading Mitchell out then so be it

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Yes but what’s the point? Are St Kilda a young side? Yes. Are they better than us? Yes. We already knew that.

We did field an inexperienced side with a lot of players who have not played 20 games. That’s just a fact. Some of those players will hopefully go on to be good players. Some of them are not yet ready to meaningfully contribute at AFL level

Sorry I wasn't meaning to direct it at you really, think it just annoyed me hearing Clarkson call us a lot more inexperienced than St. Kilda in his presser when the truth indicates we had similar levels of experience.

I suppose he has to say something though to give hope to the fan base.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The age and experience difference is completely negligible. That excuse does not hold up to any sort of scrutiny.

Of course it does. Come on, man.

We had a 3 gamer running with their best mid to try and curtail him. Our best mid was a 22yr old, with a tick over 50 games.

We had 2 key forwards with less than 7 games between them, our most offensive weapon from the back half is 13 games into his career.

 

[H00t]

Not sure we are a young team more mid-table. Younger that what we have been which has been really old. Our youth isn’t to blame though. The level at which our youth has played has been pretty standard across the league.

Problem is our older players are the ones struggling. Most of our best players that game where the younger ones.

Worps and Scrim had good games. Kosi and Moore played well. Finn worked himself into the game nicely. Was looking pretty good by the end of the game. Jeka tried his guts out. Not his fault we can’t hit a target going forward.

Lots of teams are playing youth and getting similar or worse results out of their youth. It’s just their older players are playing better than ours.

Keep playing the young guys and we will get through this.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Of course it does. Come on, man.

We had a 3 gamer running with their best mid to try and curtail him. Our best mid was a 22yr old, with a tick over 50 games.

We had 2 key forwards with less than 7 games between them, our most offensive weapon from the back half is 13 games into his career.

It holds up as an excuse when we're playing seasoned veteran teams such as Geelong and Richmond.

 

[Billyc]

Sorry I wasn't meaning to direct it at you really, think it just annoyed me hearing Clarkson call us a lot more inexperienced than St. Kilda in his presser when the truth indicates we had similar levels of experience.

I suppose he has to say something though to give hope to the fan base.

Did he say we are more inexperienced than St Kilda or that we are inexperienced? The latter is just correct, we fielded an inexperienced side and replaced 3 very experienced players with 3 inexperienced guys. The outcome wasn’t pretty

 

[StillAtLarge]

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Did he say we are more inexperienced than St Kilda or that we are inexperienced? The latter is just correct, we fielded an inexperienced side and replaced 3 very experienced players with 3 inexperienced guys. The outcome wasn’t pretty

He said we were a a lot more inexperienced than the St.Kilda side.