Review Good Bad and Ugly vs GWS - Rd 7 2021

[Vader]

How is the mid season draft going to be a fix. We pick up one player who was originally available in the main draft but wasn't taken.
We aren't taking a quality player from a current AFL list.
Sure they might be a handy at best but all this draft really does is stuff the lower leagues clubs.
The most probable result is the Crows pick up an extra SANFL squad player.

Presumably the player coming in will be in good current form, and uninjured. That alone will put him ahead of the likes of Pedlar (injured and under-done), and will boost our depth.

 

[Vader]

Himmelberg was awful. Got his hands to it a few times, but couldn't hold anything.

I thought there was a lot to like about his game - he got to a lot of contests, got into good marking positions, and got his hands on a lot of almost-marks... but dear God his concrete hands made a mockery of all the good work which preceded it. It was such an "almost" game for him. If he'd held onto even half those marks we'd be raving about how good his game was... but he didn't, and we're not.

The coaches will definitely be happy with his work rate, his positioning, and the fact that he had his man beaten on so many occasions... but I have no doubt they'll be just as frustrated as the rest of us with regards to his ability to hold onto those marks.

 

[Vader]

The problem is our four best mids currently are sloane, laird, keays and mcrouch (once he returns from injury)...

all four are nowhere near elite or classy mids and, whilst keays looks pretty quick., the rest are slow.

all four are workhorse types. we need two of them at most.

We need two elite classy mids with speed to join them. We’ll hopefully get them at the end of this year and next year.

... and 2 of those workhorses were watching from the sidelines. Add either of them to the mix, and we beat both Freo & Hawthorn (we still lose to GWS).

 

[DJ75]

I thought there was a lot to like about his game - he got to a lot of contests, got into good marking positions, and got his hands on a lot of almost-marks... but dear God his concrete hands made a mockery of all the good work which preceded it. It was such an "almost" game for him. If he'd held onto even half those marks we'd be raving about how good his game was... but he didn't, and we're not.

The coaches will definitely be happy with his work rate, his positioning, and the fact that he had his man beaten on so many occasions... but I have no doubt they'll be just as frustrated as the rest of us with regards to his ability to hold onto those marks.

If he takes those marks, then it changes his (and our) game.

When he doesn't take the marks though, his overall output becomes terrible. His movement at ground level is sooooo slow that he is a mark or bust player.

 

[Murray2503]

This was interesting.
Tex is obviously injured. He has also NEVER been that pack marking guy. Yet we consistently ignored all other players in an attempt to bomb the ball on Tex's head. So weird.

Thilthorpe got sucked in by his opponent. Every aerial contest, Thilthorpe ended up with only one arm in the air as he was grappling with his opponent with the other. His opponent would have loved that. Needed to just focus on marking and not pushing his opponent. Will have been a big learning game for him.

Himmelberg was awful. Got his hands to it a few times, but couldn't hold anything.

Murray did what young defenders often do when thrown in attack - he just jumped at the ball. Didn't worry about his opponent and didn't get caught up in wrestling or trying to make initial contact (like Tex did all day). He just jumped at the ball. Loved it.

I think we may find that Tex being uninjured for a couple of games was an aberration. He is back to his 2019-2020 form whether that's because of injury or decline or both. Club needs to make a call on him this year.

 

[Vader]

If he takes those marks, then it changes his (and our) game.

When he doesn't take the marks though, his overall output becomes terrible. His movement at ground level is sooooo slow that he is a mark or bust player.

His movement at ground level is still better than Fogarty's...

I agree, it was an "almost" game - so much good, followed immediately by so much bad. The fact that he got to so many marking contests, and into good positions to take those marks, was a clear positive that they would take away from the game. There are also, obviously, things which he will need to continue working on as a result of the game (i.e. holding onto all those marks).

 

[Chillum]

Only the posters with clear hatred on Mackay and his selection could micro analyse his game like that yesterday and say he had no impact on the game. I didn’t want him selected but I can also acknowledge when he plays well and the selectors get it right. What about the beautiful kick to someone like MacAdam I50, who then proceeds to not make the distance? Stuff like that doesn’t pop up in your stats for score involvements. Anyone that watched the game could clearly see he was the only guy from D50 providing any sort of run and carry; Seed was ok at this forward of centre. McPherson was a turnover merchant and Brodie had a down day.

Since when was Mackay in the side as an intercept marker? 3 tackles is fine for someone performing his role yesterday. He managed to get on the outside of a contest on several occasions and help us move forward.

I also had a chuckle at saying he did all his usual things (like disposal count), not being able to rack up over 20 touches has been one of the biggest criticisms of him on this board!

Not having a go and I thought DMac was good in the 1st half, but where did you find the info that says he had 3 tackles. The AFL website says he was one of many Crows who didnt lay ANY tackles. In fact we had 7 players without a single tackle.

 

[LC40]

Presumably the player coming in will be in good current form, and uninjured. That alone will put him ahead of the likes of Pedlar (injured and under-done), and will boost our depth.

Going on current practices the new addition will have to make his mark in the SANFL before even being considered as a viable selection.
Worrell has been on our list since the 2019 draft and despite injuries and good form he has yet to make a debut.
If we are being consistent what are the chances of a mid season draftee jumping the queue even in a position of apparent need.
If we are mentioning underdone players then surely coming from a non professional league equates to fitness levels not being initially on a par to those on our squad who train full time.
I agree the math's is undisputable, adding another player adds more depth but to my point this is not a major fix to our problems.

 

[Vader]

Going on current practices the new addition will have to make his mark in the SANFL before even being considered as a viable selection.
Worrell has been on our list since the 2019 draft and despite injuries and good form he has yet to make a debut.
If we are being consistent what are the chances of a mid season draftee jumping the queue even in a position of apparent need.
If we are mentioning underdone players then surely coming from a non professional league equates to fitness levels not being initially on a par to those on our squad who train full time.
I agree the math's is undisputable, adding another player adds more depth but to my point this is not a major fix to our problems.

It's not a major fix, no. It certainly can't make the current problems worse.

 

[hey shorty]

How is the mid season draft going to be a fix. We pick up one player who was originally available in the main draft but wasn't taken.
We aren't taking a quality player from a current AFL list.
Sure they might be a handy at best but all this draft really does is stuff the lower leagues clubs.
The most probable result is the Crows pick up an extra SANFL squad player.

Could handle a Marlion Pickett type.

 

[jackster83]

It's not a major fix, no. It certainly can't make the current problems worse.

Even just to have a few more bodies at training will be handy. Having 10+ guys injured, plus Stengle sacked means our squad is very thin.

 

[Geoffa32]

Our number 1 issue is midfield talent.

Mid season draft won't fix that.


Going forward we have some decent bookends.

But still one of the worst midfield in the comp, and really I still cant see who is going to be our elite mid.

Pedlar, Berry, Scholl could get there. Scholl, as an outside mid (wing) is most likely.

The rest are workman.


Next two drafts Ogilvy needs to nail this area.



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[DJ75]

I think we may find that Tex being uninjured for a couple of games was an aberration. He is back to his 2019-2020 form whether that's because of injury or decline or both. Club needs to make a call on him this year.

He is clearly injured and has been for the last few weeks.

Our problem as a club is that we think playing a senior player who is not fully fit is fine. We just seem to struggle to find the line where they need to be rested.

Our thinking goes like this:

Week 1: Fully fit. Tick
Week 2: Injury occurs. 95% fit game day. Tick
Week 3: Noticeably struggling. 85% fit game day. Tick.
Week 4: Can't train during the week. 75% fit. Tick.
Week 5: Being 'managed' during the week. 60% fit. Tick.
Week 6: Can barely walk. 40% fit. Sub.
Week 7-10 injured.
Week 11: Immediately rushed back in the side. 75% fit. Tick.

When it could be this:

Week 1: Fully fit. Tick
Week 2: Injury occurs. 95% fit game day. Tick
Week 3: Noticeably struggling. 85% fit game day. Tick.
Week 4: Can't train during the week. Rested fully.
Week 5: Rested.
Week 6: Fully fit. Tick.

 

[cleanhands]

His movement at ground level is still better than Fogarty's...

I agree, it was an "almost" game - so much good, followed immediately by so much bad. The fact that he got to so many marking contests, and into good positions to take those marks, was a clear positive that they would take away from the game. There are also, obviously, things which he will need to continue working on as a result of the game (i.e. holding onto all those marks).

Standard Himmelberg

 

[Ozzie]

Nope, we are in dire needs of another tall forward, Himmelberg and Frampton aren't up to it going forward if we're being honest.

Is Freitag you seem to be impressed with, is he a forward/ruck or purely a ruck? Maybe we can find a true forward in the mid season draft. Personally I would persist with EH for the moment.

 

[Crow till I die]

Our number 1 issue is midfield talent.

Mid season draft won't fix that.


Going forward we have some decent bookends.

But still one of the worst midfield in the comp, and really I still cant see who is going to be our elite mid.

Pedlar, Berry, Scholl could get there. Scholl, as an outside mid (wing) is most likely.

The rest are workman.


Next two drafts Ogilvy needs to nail this area.



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

What about the young mid we are bringing over from Tasmania this week?. He seems to be in really good form in the Tas league, maybe he might be a good mid year addition for us in our problem area

 

[hey shorty]

Our number 1 issue is midfield talent.

Mid season draft won't fix that.


Going forward we have some decent bookends.

But still one of the worst midfield in the comp, and really I still cant see who is going to be our elite mid.

Pedlar, Berry, Scholl could get there. Scholl, as an outside mid (wing) is most likely.

The rest are workman.


Next two drafts Ogilvy needs to nail this area.



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Hamill

 

[hey shorty]

What about the young mid we are bringing over from Tasmania this week?. He seems to be in really good form in the Tas league, maybe he might be a good mid year addition for us in our problem area

Similar to what we have. Good addition but still lacks class.

 

[Ozzie]

I can answer that. I don't expect him to star, because of his inexperience.
He makes good position, can jump; both terrific assets. However, I do expect him to hold more of the marks that he gets both hands to as well as the chest marks that bounce/fumble out. He and Frampton have hands of concrete. I have more confidence in Thilthorpe after only 2 games than I have in those two.
I expect him also to kick better for goal from 30-35m out.
I expect him to do the basics well. For reasons beyond me, he doesn't.

I think his poor goal kicking is more of his problem having to double grab for marks. I like his mobility to get to contests.

 

[Mutineer]

How is the mid season draft going to be a fix. We pick up one player who was originally available in the main draft but wasn't taken.
We aren't taking a quality player from a current AFL list.
Sure they might be a handy at best but all this draft really does is stuff the lower leagues clubs.
The most probable result is the Crows pick up an extra SANFL squad player.

I don't know about a fix but this year's mid season draft is rather unique in that in the Covid 19 affected 2020 National Draft which saw all Victorian draftees unable to strut their stuff for the complete season means that more than a few now 19 year olds come into the mid season draft equation.

AFL clubs will no doubt see this as a chance to get an early jump on the 2021 National Draft with the draft age lifted to 19.

Talk is 19 year old Sandringham Dragon's Forward/Ruck Jacob Edwards is a certainty to land on an AFL list, likely the team with 1st pick and he won't be the only one by a fair stretch.

 

[Mutineer]

... and 2 of those workhorses were watching from the sidelines. Add either of them to the mix, and we beat both Freo & Hawthorn (we still lose to GWS).

2 All Australians aren't by definition "workhorses.

 

[Mutineer]

Is Freitag you seem to be impressed with, is he a forward/ruck or purely a ruck? Maybe we can find a true forward in the mid season draft. Personally I would persist with EH for the moment.

Ruck/Forward

 

[Vader]

2 All Australians aren't by definition "workhorses.

I was just using the terminology of the poster I replied to.

 

[ltdamn]

Our defensive action right across the field broke down completely at times in this game. First time this season we've really been opened up.

GWS were able to run and move the ball with speed, minimal pressure on the ball carrier.

Left our defenders exposed, running back towards goal, too much space to protect.

I think it was just a young team hitting the wall to a degree. Maybe the six day break and deflating loss last week contributed but we just didn't seem as intense around the ball.

Hopefully can regroup this week because there really weren't any positives from the weekend. Win or lose, you want to take some good things out of each game and see some signs of progress.

The problem is even when we win the ball our hands are so slow, most other teams in the league can fire three handballs to a target in the time it takes us to sight and execute one, which is obviously going to be shutdown or result in a hacked kick forward. Fremantle showed us up with it badly and as a result, could just waltz away from the contest with an overlap.

The early season pressure that we showed against Geelong was always going to be hard to maintain each week, and it just feels like we now have a surplus of inside mids who go 1000% at the contest but no one to take it away if we win, and no one left to stop it leaving when we lose. Crouch is a bit of a middle ground here on his best form.

I can see Nicks trying to put the same thing in place but we're not they're yet, and without players like Milera who can put a step on we are struggling to stop the ball let alone move it ourselves.

 

[Bearded Clam]

2 All Australians aren't by definition "workhorses.

I called them workhorses.. and there is definately a position for a couple of workhorse types in any team and in any AA team/squad..

Sloane and Mcrouch are workhorse type midfielders.. not elite, classy ball users..

I wouldnt put either of sloane or matt in the same category of midfielder as a Bontempelli, Martin, Kelly, Selwood, Gray etc etc type mid.. guys that you know when they get the ball just seem to have all the time and space in the world and 9 times out of 10 make the right decision and dispose of the ball just about perfectly.

sloane, Mcrouch, keays, laird just simply arent elite mids with classy disposal.. and I’m certainly not writing them off.. like I said, they are more the workhorse type and we definately need the workhorse type.. we just dont need all four of them. We need two of them and we need to mix and match them with a couple of elite classy types.