Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[SurreyBlue]

It's not the posters who need to learn, it's the club. We've been basically resting on our tall stocks for three straight trade periods/drafts.

The list was balanced before this years trade/draft period.
When you delist and retire 3 or 4 KP forwards and rucks and replace them with small forwards, half backs and midfielders, this is the end result.
I'n not even taking into consideration the long term injury issues of Charlie & Marchbank.
We now have Honey, Durdin, Owies, Betts, Gibbons and even Fisher playing for the one small forward role and just as many half back flankers..........amazing. Luckily we have players such as Martin, Murphy, Williams, SpS, Cuningham and Fogarty who can play high half forward/midfield.
I've excluded players such as Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy, etc..

 

[bigblueboy]

The list was balanced before this years trade/draft period.
When you delist and retire 3 or 4 KP forwards and rucks and replace them with small forwards, half backs and midfielders, this is the end result.
I'n not even taking into consideration the long term injury issues of Charlie & Marchbank.
We now have Honey, Durdin, Owies, Betts, Gibbons and even Fisher playing for the one small forward role and just as many half back flankers..........amazing. Luckily we have players such as Martin, Murphy, Williams, SpS, Cuningham and Fogarty who can play high half forward/midfield.
I've excluded players such as Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy, etc..

Risky strategy but I think long term actually think it was the right way to go. None of the KPPs we delisted were going to make it.
We have Curnow, McKay, TDK, Weitering - all under 25 and if we get them all on the park will be the envy of every club in the league, no exceptions.
We need to target support - mature KPPs are much more reliable than young ones. In the meantime, we can test flankers and potentially lose some with little impact on performance.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The list was balanced before this years trade/draft period.
When you delist and retire 3 or 4 KP forwards and rucks and replace them with small forwards, half backs and midfielders, this is the end result.
I'n not even taking into consideration the long term injury issues of Charlie & Marchbank.
We now have Honey, Durdin, Owies, Betts, Gibbons and even Fisher playing for the one small forward role and just as many half back flankers..........amazing. Luckily we have players such as Martin, Murphy, Williams, SpS, Cuningham and Fogarty who can play high half forward/midfield.
I've excluded players such as Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy, etc..

Yep, team full of half back flankers, project small forwards and inside midfielders.

We will somewhat we have always done and load up on talls now. Why we can't go best available and then draft for needs every draft I don't know.

 

[Gethelred]

Yep, team full of half back flankers, project small forwards and inside midfielders.

We will somewhat we have always done and load up on talls now. Why we can't go best available and then draft for needs every draft I don't know.

The thing I don't get is, if you pick on best available at your first selection (so, a KPP, mid, defender; whatever), why you can't pick for needs later and a little more speculatively.

Sure, you've got positions that are hard to fill (KPF, A grade midfielder) with lower picks, but you've also got the entire ******* draft from which to choose. Do as SOS did and trade exhaustively to obtain a pick in the range of the player(s) you want, and take an integrated approach into each draft where you wind up taking both the best available and needs wherever possible.

 

[mediumsizered]

Did BSOS get touched up by Josh Jenkins (7 goals) in teh Bullants vs Geelong ressies. I didn't see the game to see if they played on one another but seen a photo of the two matched up. Bit of a bulk/strength mismatch? SDK looks to be going ok in the ressies and Finbar snapped one.

Yep, BSOS copped a bit of a drubbing from Jenkins. He got very little assistance from his fellow defenders, one of whom was Finbar. Jenkins just used his superior strength to outpoint BSOS over & over again. Jenkins could easily have kicked 10 if not for inaccurate kicking (7.5).

Finbar's goal came from a questionable free kick paid for a deliberate behind. Good on the umpire for paying it, but most similar incidents are not free kicked.

SDK looked quite good last night. His marking is a real strength. The Bullants are badly undermanned though, so performances by opposition players need to be tempered with this in mind.

 

[thylacine60]

when do we play the bullants?

 

[ferrisb]

They had to put someone other than Rance on the forward, I think

They had to do that when Rance was still playing...

 

[myblueroan]

Yeah really changed their system

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

Pffft
No TDK
No amazing changes to their system.

 

[mediumsizered]

when do we play the bullants?

Not soon enough.

 

[Arr0w]

The thing I don't get is, if you pick on best available at your first selection (so, a KPP, mid, defender; whatever), why you can't pick for needs later and a little more speculatively.

Sure, you've got positions that are hard to fill (KPF, A grade midfielder) with lower picks, but you've also got the entire ******* draft from which to choose. Do as SOS did and trade exhaustively to obtain a pick in the range of the player(s) you want, and take an integrated approach into each draft where you wind up taking both the best available and needs wherever possible.

You draft talent, you trade for needs

 

[myblueroan]

 

[branedotorg]

I'm shocked she ended up a blues fan - dad a lion, grandfather Fitzroy, somehow related to Liam Picken...

 

[Gethelred]

You draft talent, you trade for needs

I know you've said that before, but I'm hearing an addendum in there even if you're not saying it.

'... in an ideal world.'

 

[DangerousD]

But, we beat *

Im not quite sure of your point Arrow, beating Essendon was expected, resting players in games we are expected to win, doesn’t align with the idea I put forward.

Not just this year but in our previous years and in all sports, I have a similar idea, you want to win the most games you can in the season and sometimes you need to pick your battles, in games you don’t expect to win, rest players if required, so that they can be more effective in the games you do expect to win.

I have the same idea when it comes to developing players.

 

[CJMB]

Not sure I like it. Kind of feels like tanking in a way, almost accepting defeat before the game is even played.

 

[Arr0w]

Im not quite sure of your point Arrow, beating Essendon was expected, resting players in games we are expected to win, doesn’t align with the idea I put forward.

Not just this year but in our previous years and in all sports, I have a similar idea, you want to win the most games you can in the season and sometimes you need to pick your battles, in games you don’t expect to win, rest players if required, so that they can be more effective in the games you do expect to win.

I have the same idea when it comes to developing players.

The position we are in, you pick your best side to win every game

 

[DangerousD]

"We go into every game expecting to win." -- David Teague, pretty much every single week

Maybe this isn't just a talking point, but he and the club really believe this?

I get the point you're making and I don't entirely disagree, but on balance I think I'd prefer the club to follow Teague's stated philosophy and pick the team on that basis -- you're either fit to play or you're not, regardless of who the opposition is this week.

It’s an interesting topic, picking a team solely for the now, stunts the development for the future and how often in AFL do you genuinely think you’re not a chance?

In saying that, it’s Teagues and the clubs job to know and understand where our list is at and pick the side which will benefit us in the medium to long term, in regards to Cas, I don’t see how playing someone who seems very limited by an injury, is good for, expecting to win, ithink we would be a better chance without him.

 

[DangerousD]

The position we are in, you pick your best side to win every game

In an ideal world yes, we do though, need to think about developing players like Dow, Setterfield, Stocker, LOB, Owies, Honey and sometimes these players need to be played or even played in positions that there might be someone’s who’s output might be a little higher, like Betts, Murphy or Newnes.

Then you have the argument over picking a clearly injured player who is barely contributing to the side and saying you’re picking our best side, I disagree, you don’t carry players who are injured and don’t contribute.

 

[branedotorg]

In an ideal world yes, we do though, need to think about developing players like Dow, Setterfield, Stocker, LOB, Owies, Honey and sometimes these players need to be played or even played in positions that there might be someone’s who’s output might be a little higher, like Betts, Murphy or Newnes.

Then you have the argument over picking a clearly injured player who is barely contributing to the side and saying you’re picking our best side, I disagree, you don’t carry players who are injured and don’t contribute.

I guess it depends on the value you place on a rigid team structure vs a best available on the day.

I like what you're saying but tactical flexibility requires a very prepared and well drilled team, something we aren't (yet?)

 

[Arr0w]

In an ideal world yes, we do though, need to think about developing players like Dow, Setterfield, Stocker, LOB, Owies, Honey and sometimes these players need to be played or even played in positions that there might be someone’s who’s output might be a little higher, like Betts, Murphy or Newnes.

Then you have the argument over picking a clearly injured player who is barely contributing to the side and saying you’re picking our best side, I disagree, you don’t carry players who are injured and don’t contribute.

Let those guy build form in the vfl

We are down talls, levi is there to ensure H isn't double teamed and covet for the rest of the spine. Our list management in this area has been substandard

Every top 8 side has a tall spine/side, especially with the rule changes

You don't try to recreate a winning formula

 

[DangerousD]

Not sure I like it. Kind of feels like tanking in a way, almost accepting defeat before the game is even played.

Obviously need to find a good balance, to me Ed Curnow is currently deserving of starting midfield but he isn’t the future and needs to be phased out, we might take a small output hit by doing this but we will be better for the long term, the same with injuries, of Cripps or others if injured, rest them.

FWIW I did have the same idea about resting Cripps last year for the Port game and we ended up losing after the siren, mainly, I just don’t want the club playing injured players like Cas, rushing in players like TDK or SOS as I want the club to think longer term.

 

[DangerousD]

Let those guy build form in the vfl

We are down talls, levi is there to ensure H isn't double teamed and covet for the rest of the spine. Our list management in this area has been substandard

Every top 8 side has a tall spine/side, especially with the rule changes

You don't try to recreate a winning formula

I guess, I don’t see the same value as you do in relation to Cas taking heat off of Harry, i still seeing Cas as having to meet a level of output that I don’t think he’s meeting, i think our team would be better served (whilst he’s struggling) to go smaller and try something different.

We will see if he plays this game, which I think he will and I hope he pulls out a big game, rather than do himself an injury that will keep him out for a large chunk of the year.

 

[Arr0w]

I guess, I don’t see the same value as you do in relation to Cas taking heat off of Harry, i still seeing Cas as having to meet a level of output that I don’t think he’s meeting, i think our team would be better served (whilst he’s struggling) to go smaller and try something different.

We will see if he plays this game, which I think he will and I hope he pulls out a big game, rather than do himself an injury that will keep him out for a large chunk of the year.

I keep seeing this "try someone different" but I haven't seen anyone mapping it out, so it actually resembles a viable structure

There is no viable option for a ruck chopout. We saw tonight how Blicaves and Esava destroyed Pickett.

There is no other viable option to ensure H doesn't draw 2 tall defenders

Every top 8 side plays a tall spine as well as back up tall options

We just have to hope that TDK will be ready soon and we don't suffer more injuries, especially to talls

 

[My Hat]

It’s an interesting topic, picking a team solely for the now, stunts the development for the future and how often in AFL do you genuinely think you’re not a chance?

In saying that, it’s Teagues and the clubs job to know and understand where our list is at and pick the side which will benefit us in the medium to long term, in regards to Cas, I don’t see how playing someone who seems very limited by an injury, is good for, expecting to win, ithink we would be a better chance without him.

Fair enough. I think I'd probably have been more open to the choose-your-battles approach a few years ago when we were clearly a bottom 4 side. Now that we're expecting to move up the ladder it's a bit different -- I think any suggestion or feeling that we're sacrificing games we think we can't win could be quite corrosive both to the culture within the club and to external perceptions.

With regard to Cas specifically, yeah it's a tough one. There's always a few players in any team who are playing through soreness or some minor issue, like Cripps earlier in the year and Saad a couple of weeks ago, and probably others we don't know about. And then there are those who are clearly injured and need a rest. Cas seems to be somewhere in that grey zone in the middle. At the end of the day I guess I'm happy to trust the club's judgement -- if & when they think he can't do the job or there's a better option available then they'll rest him, otherwise they'll play him.

 

[mrjones]

Didn’t really know where to put this and not Carlton related but here it is.
My little man, who’s on the spectrum is back playing footy after a few years. He gave it away when he was 8 years old struggling with associated social skills but never stopped kicking the footy with me.
Today was his third match back and he’s been given a nickname “the Rabbit”.
Tackling and pressure as a forward with his teammates loving his contribution.
We as parents know how hard it’s been for him to make friends and the time and money spent with OT’s and other therapists is paying off.
Footy is now again part of the next step in building this 11 year old’s confidence socially.
His mum corrupted my daughter into following * but he made his own mind up that as a Gold Coast boy the Suns were his team.
Even though Carlton is in my veins, I’m so stoked he has made his own choices as to who he supports.
Regardless of his parents hang ups.

PS. Last week was great. The wife wouldn’t talk to me for 4 days because we beat her s**t stain of a team.