List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[De Glueie]

We cannot pick up top ended players next year we have no picks to give up. For Weideman Melbourne will want at least a second and third rounder for him. Simply because he is KP. Not worth it
We have to build through the draft. There is a mid season season draft coming up in June this year. We must look for at 2 KP PLAYERS, not half backs or midfielders we have Daicos coming next year.

One of the players we must seriously look at is JACKSON CALLOW. Have a look at the previous weeks game he plays for Norwood but comes from Tassie. 195-196 cm
Serious grip like hands and big unit. Not sure why he has been overlooked in last year's draft. But he would be the ONE i would pick up in mid season.
Put it this way he is no worse than any kp we currently have and will cost us NOTHING.
Go get him pies

 

[Apex36]

Let’s have a look at it, Cox has hit 30 at that age you know he isn’t going to be getting any better Weid is 23.

Cox and Weid have played 3 games in the VFL each and Cox has managed 4 goals and Weid 14

If anything, Cox has regressed in the past 12-18 months.

 

[swoop42]

Some reports suggest our salary cap remains tight (let that sink in for a minute) though we may some flexibility.

Really though unless the opportunity is to good to refuse and by that I mean the player is a genuine A grader and the opposition club is prepared to accept free agency compensation as trade I don't feel it's wise to stretch our salary cap capacity so soon or use any 2022 draft selections as currency after the off season we have just had.

The reality is paying a premium for a single player is highly unlikely to see us surge back up the ladder in the short term and with players like Moore and de Goey coming off contract at the end next season keeping some flexibility in our ability to meet their wage demands or match opposition offers and potentially force a better trade deal than free agency compensation would provide is desirable IMO.

Getting games and development into the kids secured across the last few drafts, obtaining N.Daicos at the end of this year and maximising our draft intake as much as possible for the next couple of years is probably the way forward and only when the time is right do we look to secure established talent.

 

[De Glueie]

So you think we can get Weideman for basically nothing. You are dreaming, Melbourne are not Collingwood they class him as key position they will want at least a second and third rounder for him .So who would you trade for him Cox, Thomas, Hoskin Elliot, Jamie Elliot ? All these players aren't worth much on open market maybe only Jamie Elliot but he is injury prone and older. We have no draft picks because the brains trust at the pies have put us back years and years, in salary cap and draft picks.'In fact our salary cap is so damaged that we may still have to let a player of some note go and years end to clear more space

Our way out of the wilderness will take a few years at least, tell me which player of value will want to come to Collingwood presently after they draft debarcle and the exiting of Treloar etc. Even current players at the club are on tenderhooks, look at the way they are playing Our only way is to build through the draft unless we trade off a Degoey or Moore which i would not do.

 

[gouki88]

How about this.

Move Grundy on (even if we pay part of his salary)
Move Sidebottom, Sier, Cox on and retire a handful of players ( we know who they are )

Trade hard for - just wish we had a first rounder to trade.

Merrett

Cripps ( getable given Blues are 105% of cap and need to pay McKay & Walsh’s in the next year)

Weideman


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lol, no thanks

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The pies will not be able to recruit any free agents or big names because WE HAVE NOTHING TO TRADE !!!!!

Free agents...

... nothing to trade...

... in caps with exclamation marks...

 

[Anzacday]

Can everyone please stop mentioning the cap word

 

[partypie]

Surely we can grab a few more Collingwood names?

Lonie? Starcevich? Serong?

Any others?

To be fair I'd firm up a little if we got Serong. Kid is going to be a gun.

 

[Pistol Night]

Surely we can grab a few more Collingwood names?

Lonie? Starcevich? Serong?

Any others?

Max and Ben King-Monkhurst

 

[partypie]

You’ve completely ignored the stats I posted. Now you’re comparing the trade value of KPF forwards with mids

Check back when/if Weideman is traded. Won’t be for the bag of chips you think for.

As long as we're not paying that price then he can be traded for whatever another club is willing to pay.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Can everyone please stop mentioning the cap word

Capsicum?
A capella?
Capitalism?
Capriciousness?

 

[De Glueie]

Make mine a CAP iciosa pizza thanks

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Capsicum?
A capella?
Capitalism?
Capriciousness?

Capper

 

[jackcass]

Let’s have a look at it, Cox has hit 30 at that age you know he isn’t going to be getting any better Weid is 23.

Cox and Weid have played 3 games in the VFL each and Cox has managed 4 goals and Weid 14

Yes let’s. Likely they’ve both had the same level of exposure to footy. I’m not sure why people choose to overlook Cox’s late introduction as though it never happened. Could potentially play for another 5-6 years.

Cox a genuine ruck option, not something Weid has demonstrated much aptitude toward and the key reason Jackson is keeping him out at the moment I’d assume.

If your looking at 2021 form, Cox also has 4 senior games for 6 goals, Weid donuts.

As I said, Weid likely has more upside but there’s 3/5’s of FA in it at the moment.

 

[brysie]

From my reading of the forums recently, there appear to be (generally) 2 schools of thought:

1. Trade away established players in order to facilitate a complete reboot (ie some posters have suggested trading Noble, Maynard, Crisp, De Goey) and to amass points for N Daicos;or

2. Look to hold draft picks and players and place our faith in the 2020 draft crop, while exploring potential FA targets such as Merrett and Weidemann.

My thoughts, for what they’re worth, lie somewhere closer to option 2, however differ in the players we ought to target in FA.

For me, the following players should be targeted, for the following reasons:

a. Matt Crouch (FA): we need to replace Pendles in the midfield at some point. Crouch is a big bodied mid capable of winning the ball and would be cheaper than Merrett. The carrot for him may be returning home, as the Crows and us seem to be in a similar phase

b. Weidemann (FA): for the reasons stated previously on this board, Weidemann is a good prospect and fills a need. People who are saying we don’t have the picks - they may be right, but until we get Weidemann across the line, it’s a moot argument. Let him declare he wants to come to us and then figure out whether we use the PSD or throw Melbourne a player and/or picks in return

c. Kane Farrell (Port): contracted until 2022 I think, but the kind of player we should be putting work into. Great left foot and capable of playing forward pocket or half forward. His recruitment will depend upon what opportunities Port can provide him with compared to what we might be able to offer

d. Lipinski/Richards: the Dogs’ list means there’s likely to be some cap squeeze sometime in the foreseeable future. Both provide pace, an attribute which I think our list lacks. Given our draft situation, we are unlikely to be able to offer much this trade period, however work should begin in identifying and recruiting Dogs players for 2023, if we don’t have enough to offer in 2022.

From the first 8 games this season, it’s apparent that we’re lacking midfield and forward depth. Part of that has arisen due to injuries (which reinforces the point somewhat), and part of it stems from an outdated and unimaginative gameplan.

Maintaining some draft picks across the next 2 seasons and targeting other established players who can play a role in order to stay competitive and develop our 2020 crop to me is a better solution than starting from scratch.

The other pressing issue is the coaching situation. For me, we need change. Again, there are probably 2 options:

1. Appoint a senior assistant and give them time (4 year deal). Risky as it’s hard to know how they’ll perform in the top job, but could be the refresh the playing group and club needs.

2. Appoint someone like Lyon, 2 year deal, and place a slew of up and coming assistants around him (Leppitsch, Kingsley). Lyon’s contract is to contain incentives geared around playing younger players and kicking large scores. At the end of the contract, if we’re on an upward trajectory, renew for another year. List management decisions are to be handled by Wright and the list management team.

Again, my preference is for option 2. At the end of the contract, if it’s not a resounding success, at least our younger players will have been exposed to a coach known for getting as much out of players as possible, and ought to be able to defend. It’s a similar strategy to what Melbourne employed with Roos and then Goodwin, however I’d like to think we could pick someone with more imagination than Goodwin to succeed Lyon.

The club is clearly in a state of flux right now. The only consolation or solace currently is that Graham Wright is a good operator and Korda has stated he will defer decisions to those in the appropriate positions.

 

[jackcass]

If anything, Cox has regressed in the past 12-18 months.

Funny how recovery from eye surgery will adversely affect form.

 

[Apex36]

Yes let’s. Likely they’ve both had the same level of exposure to footy. I’m not sure why people choose to overlook Cox’s late introduction as though it never happened. Could potentially play for another 5-6 years.

Exposure doesn’t change age, and Cox is nowhere near good enough for clubs to persist with him until he’s that old.

Cox a genuine ruck option, not something Weid has demonstrated much aptitude toward and the key reason Jackson is keeping him out at the moment I’d assume.

Weed is a competent second ruck, but clearly Jackson has the edge on him there. Jackson isn’t the one keeping him out though.

If your looking at 2021 form, Cox also has 4 senior games for 6 goals, Weid donuts.

Weed is competing against Brown (5.1 in 2 games) and McDonald (13.8 in 8 games including one as a defender). Who is Cox competing against? Darcy Cameron? We literally moved our AA CHB to the forward line because Cox has become so unreliable.

As I said, Weid likely has more upside but there’s 3/5’s of FA in it at the moment.

There is no club in the league that would even remotely consider taking Cox over Weideman at this point. It’s not even close.

 

[chop_me]

2. Appoint someone like Lyon, 2 year deal, and place a slew of up and coming assistants around him (Leppitsch, Kingsley). Lyon’s contract is to contain incentives geared around playing younger players and kicking large scores. At the end of the contract, if we’re on an upward trajectory, renew for another year. List management decisions are to be handled by Wright and the list management team.

Again, my preference is for option 2. At the end of the contract, if it’s not a resounding success, at least our younger players will have been exposed to a coach known for getting as much out of players as possible, and ought to be able to defend. It’s a similar strategy to what Melbourne employed with Roos and then Goodwin, however I’d like to think we could pick someone with more imagination than Goodwin to succeed Lyon.

The club is clearly in a state of flux right now. The only consolation or solace currently is that Graham Wright is a good operator and Korda has stated he will defer decisions to those in the appropriate positions.

Why engage Lyon if we want to kick large scores?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[MoreMoore]

I think we should go after Merrett, Weideman and Richards
All are gettable and all fill a need.
Leppitsch for coach

 

[Seedsfan]

Yes let’s. Likely they’ve both had the same level of exposure to footy. I’m not sure why people choose to overlook Cox’s late introduction as though it never happened. Could potentially play for another 5-6 years.

Cox a genuine ruck option, not something Weid has demonstrated much aptitude toward and the key reason Jackson is keeping him out at the moment I’d assume.

If your looking at 2021 form, Cox also has 4 senior games for 6 goals, Weid donuts.

As I said, Weid likely has more upside but there’s 3/5’s of FA in it at the moment.

Lol yeah because he was late to footy he doesn’t age. Makes perfect sense.

 

[sr36]

And as I pointed out your 3rd and 4th rd draft pick KPFs comparisons Patton, Schache, Gumbleton etc were all injury prone or mental health issue players... with the exception of Peter Wright... who was not getting games in a crap 2020 Suns team.

Is Weideman in a crap 2021 Melbourne team? Cause that’s the faulty comparison you are making.

I very much look forward to reminding you of this conversation down the track..

Wasn't Wright also a salary dump?

 

[brysie]

Why engage Lyon if we want to kick large scores?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think he’s capable of reforming his style. I saw an article recently where he stated that he was willing to go back into coaching but would want a number of highly regarded assistants around him. I would expect one of those assistants to be in charge of ball movement / forward entries and for them to tweak their style to leverage the benefits afforded to them by a solid defensive base.

The manner in which footy is being played currently doesn’t necessarily mean that a game based on quick counter-attack will be unsuccessful. You either win the ball at the centre bounce and go forward, thereby necessitating good defensive structures in case you don’t score. Or you lose the centre clearance and have to be drilled well defensively in order to prevent quick scores being kicked against you. As someone who has had some time out of the game, but who I think remains a very sharp football mind, Lyon is well-placed to strike that balance. He might favour defence, however that’s where as a coaching group ought to be able to balance preferences and compliment one another. What I don’t want to see is an approach similar to Teague or Rutten, which seems to be run and gun at the expense of any defence.

The other benefits Lyon would provide, in my eyes at least, is an experienced hand at the wheel for the next 2 years, someone who has dealt with the media and someone who knows how to coach players. There’s just as much incentive for him as there is us for him to be successful - the parameters of success ought to be defined clearly and communicated to him.

Incentivisation needs to be a priority for our club going forward, not just for the players, but for coaching staff too.

 

[partypie]

Lol yeah because he was late to footy he doesn’t age. Makes perfect sense.

It actually does make sense on one level that Cox's late start might mean he could potentially play into his mid-30's - football careers (or rather their endings) are usually measured by miles on the clock, not just age, and Cox doesn't have anywhere as much mileage behind him as players who have been running around at the top level since their late teens.

From a physical standpoint Cox could easily play until he is 34-35, but whether his form warrants that is a different thing entirely.

Would be interesting as a hypothetical to see what he could do in more of a ruck role resting up forward, because I've always thought his tap work was pretty decent and he is mobile enough to get around the ground and have an influence setting up a kick behind the play.

 

[Pistol Night]

I think he’s capable of reforming his style. I saw an article recently where he stated that he was willing to go back into coaching but would want a number of highly regarded assistants around him. I would expect one of those assistants to be in charge of ball movement / forward entries and for them to tweak their style to leverage the benefits afforded to them by a solid defensive base.

The manner in which footy is being played currently doesn’t necessarily mean that a game based on quick counter-attack will be unsuccessful. You either win the ball at the centre bounce and go forward, thereby necessitating good defensive structures in case you don’t score. Or you lose the centre clearance and have to be drilled well defensively in order to prevent quick scores being kicked against you. As someone who has had some time out of the game, but who I think remains a very sharp football mind, Lyon is well-placed to strike that balance. He might favour defence, however that’s where as a coaching group ought to be able to balance preferences and compliment one another. What I don’t want to see is an approach similar to Teague or Rutten, which seems to be run and gun at the expense of any defence.

The other benefits Lyon would provide, in my eyes at least, is an experienced hand at the wheel for the next 2 years, someone who has dealt with the media and someone who knows how to coach players. There’s just as much incentive for him as there is us for him to be successful - the parameters of success ought to be defined clearly and communicated to him.

Incentivisation needs to be a priority for our club going forward, not just for the players, but for coaching staff too.

I never understand the hate for Ross Lyon. With luck out of his control hes a 2 time premiership coach. Paul Roos coached the same way, jagged 1 that could of been 0 and hes some sort of messiah. The Saints mangaged to kick big scores under him when the had the cattle to do it. Just my opinion

 

[Seedsfan]

It actually does - football careers are usually measured by miles on the clock, not just age.

From a physical standpoint Cox could easily play until he is 34-35, but whether his form warrants that is a different thing entirely.

Would be interesting as a hypothetical to see what he could do in more of a ruck role resting up forward, because I've always thought his tap work was pretty decent and he is mobile enough to get around the ground and have an influence setting up a kick behind the play.

Lol this is the most simplistic article. Because playing all the sport he did before he got to Collingwood didn’t take a toll on his body “because he came late to football” it’s a ridiculous argument