List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Pedro]

2. Appoint someone like Lyon, 2 year deal, and place a slew of up and coming assistants around him (Leppitsch, Kingsley). Lyon’s contract is to contain incentives geared around playing younger players and kicking large scores. At the end of the contract, if we’re on an upward trajectory, renew for another year. List management decisions are to be handled by Wright and the list management team.

Would be pretty hard to sign a coach like Lyon with both those conditions attached. Playing young players and kicking high scores would be tough to achieve simultaneously

 

[brysie]

I never understand the hate for Ross Lyon. With luck out of his control hes a 2 time premiership coach. Paul Roos coached the same way, jagged 1 that could of been 0 and hes some sort of messiah. The Saints mangaged to kick big scores under him when the had the cattle to do it. Just my opinion

This in spades. He has never really been the coach with the team who kicks the biggest scores, but always someone whose teams have been hard to play against and knows how to win.

The biggest benefit for me of hiring him is his ability to improve average players and translate that improvement into wins. If we’re in a rebuilding phase, which I think most people accept we are, then I don’t see any detriment in appointing someone like Lyon who is tactically astute and has a good record, as long as clear KPIs are provided to him and his contract length is managed.

Some people try to hold against him the fact that St Kilda and Freo weren’t the same once he left, claiming he failed to play youth and maintain a balanced list, however ignore the development of players like Fyfe and Walters at Fremantle into genuine match-winners, as well as the inevitable cycle of AFL, which we are currently experiencing after being on the right side of the cycle for nigh on 12 or so years now.

As for youth, he won’t have much of an option but to play our youth, especially if list management decisions are out of his hands for the most part.

 

[jackcass]

Lol yeah because he was late to footy he doesn’t age. Makes perfect sense.

Happy for you to show me where I’ve suggested he’s ageless.

 

[partypie]

Lol this is the most simplistic article. Because playing all the sport he did before he got to Collingwood didn’t take a toll on his body “because he came late to football” it’s a ridiculous argument

It's not a ridiculous argument just because you don't agree with it - Cox playing for several more years is entirely possible from a purely physical perspective, given his physical attributes and his later start in football would contribute to that.

The question around Cox has never been one of physical capability or fitness as he's actually pretty good on both fronts for a bloke his size, it's the his footballing ability and output on the football field (more specifically his leading and marking) that is his glaring issue and that is what will ultimately define whether he gets another contract somewhere (either with us or elsewhere) that does indeed take him deeper into his 30's or not.

We've all seen what he can do on his day, but like a lot of players he needs to close the gap between his top end performances and his more run-of-the-mill games if he wants to continue playing at AFL level. I don't think that anyone here would argue that an in-form Mason Cox who is clunking marks and kicking goals week in, week out wouldn't make us a better team both right here and now as well as going forward.

 

[Apex36]

Wasn't Wright also a salary dump?

Given Melbourne’s recent re-signings, a salary dump my be needed in their near future too.

 

[stormskye]

Enough arguing. Get weid, bring him home.

 

[sr36]

Given Melbourne’s recent re-signings, a salary dump my be needed in their near future too.

True, but is Weideman on big money? Supposedly Wright was on upward of 500. A large salary is going to decrease the price from both directions - buyer and seller.

 

[Apex36]

True, but is Weideman on big money? Supposedly Wright was on upward of 500. A large salary is going to decrease the price from both directions - buyer and seller.

I think they signed him to quite a reasonable contract after the 2018 finals series. Not $600k, but enough.

 

[sr36]

I think they signed him to quite a reasonable contract after the 2018 finals series. Not $600k, but enough.

My point is more that you can't really look at players and make a decent judgement of their value based on recent trades, as salary has become as significant as talent and age in terms of the trade price, particularly with all clubs under the squeeze due to covid cuts to the cap. Unless we knew the salary, the trade value could vary markedly. God knows what any of them are worth in trade at the moment.

 

[sr36]

I never understand the hate for Ross Lyon. With luck out of his control hes a 2 time premiership coach. Paul Roos coached the same way, jagged 1 that could of been 0 and hes some sort of messiah. The Saints mangaged to kick big scores under him when the had the cattle to do it. Just my opinion

I like Lyon. He's got a bit of class about him too.

 

[Pistol Night]

I like Lyon. He's got a bit of class about him too.

Bit of dry humour too him as well. Ive always had time for him. You listen to the way the likes of Nick Reiwoldt, Lenny Hayes and co talk of him and thats enough for me rather than nuffies

 

[brysie]

Reminds me a little of Malthouse. Fiercely protective of his players and not willing to tow the usual media line if he doesn’t agree with it or if he thinks it’s damaging to the team/club

 

[Kalidakope]

Happy for you to show me where I’ve suggested he’s ageless.

It wouldn't matter anyway, if Tom Hawkins played for us he'd have retired 3 years ago

 

[swoop42]

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another on Weideman as I haven't seen enough of him but from the little I have he appears quite a straightforward lead and mark type key forward doesn't he?

That in itself isn't a deal breaker but with Cameron displaying some encouraging development as a forward so far this season he mightn't be as required come seasons end as we believe right now.

 

[soreplums]

Hypothetical:
We have the chance to receive band 1 compo for Pendles.

North bid on Daicos. Can we trade pick 3 compo to North for a future first and points for Daicos bid or do we need to look at trading with another club?

 

[coolidge1000]

I honestly don't think it's anywhere near as bad as everyone here is making out. I think our drafting of the last 2 years will prove to be very astute . If we bring in a weiderman another established mid and some outside run well be back as for cap space beams is done this year delist or trade Cox I'd trade seir and there's actually quite a bit of room to play with

 

[partypie]

I honestly don't think it's anywhere near as bad as everyone here is making out. I think our drafting of the last 2 years will prove to be very astute . If we bring in a weiderman another established mid and some outside run well be back as for cap space beams is done this year delist or trade Cox I'd trade seir and there's actually quite a bit of room to play with

I don't particularly think we need Weideman nor do I want him unless he literally comes across for a bag of chips in which case there is minimal risk for us.

Time to start building our own talent from the ground up instead of hoping that a fringe player from another club can somehow turn into a star for us.

 

[Seedsfan]

It's not a ridiculous argument just because you don't agree with it - Cox playing for several more years is entirely possible from a purely physical perspective, given his physical attributes and his later start in football would contribute to that.

The question around Cox has never been one of physical capability or fitness as he's actually pretty good on both fronts for a bloke his size, it's the his footballing ability and output on the football field (more specifically his leading and marking) that is his glaring issue and that is what will ultimately define whether he gets another contract somewhere (either with us or elsewhere) that does indeed take him deeper into his 30's or not.

We've all seen what he can do on his day, but like a lot of players he needs to close the gap between his top end performances and his more run-of-the-mill games if he wants to continue playing at AFL level. I don't think that anyone here would argue that an in-form Mason Cox who is clunking marks and kicking goals week in, week out wouldn't make us a better team both right here and now as well as going forward.

It is a stupid argument. You can can try and justify it but it’s stupid. Just because he has not played Australian rules football does not mean he hasn’t played other sports he was a college athlete also it doesn’t stop him from aging. Most of your injuries aren’t related to contact so the fact he was playing a far lower contact sport in BBall is meaningless

 

[Jafo]

We cannot pick up top ended players next year we have no picks to give up. For Weideman Melbourne will want at least a second and third rounder for him. Simply because he is KP. Not worth it
We have to build through the draft. There is a mid season season draft coming up in June this year. We must look for at 2 KP PLAYERS, not half backs or midfielders we have Daicos coming next year.

One of the players we must seriously look at is JACKSON CALLOW. Have a look at the previous weeks game he plays for Norwood but comes from Tassie. 195-196 cm
Serious grip like hands and big unit. Not sure why he has been overlooked in last year's draft. But he would be the ONE i would pick up in mid season.
Put it this way he is no worse than any kp we currently have and will cost us NOTHING.
Go get him pies

Is he injury prone? Otherwise he won’t even get a look in. Aka Tangles, Shaz, Dawes, Wells etc.

 

[brysie]

I honestly don't think it's anywhere near as bad as everyone here is making out. I think our drafting of the last 2 years will prove to be very astute . If we bring in a weiderman another established mid and some outside run well be back as for cap space beams is done this year delist or trade Cox I'd trade seir and there's actually quite a bit of room to play with

I tend to agree with this. Much like the old adage ‘it’s never as good as it seems, and it’s never as bad as it seems’.

Our results this season demonstrate that we’re not a top 4 team, and unlikely a top 8 team. The loss against the Dogs, while being round 1, is decent evidence of this. The loss against Brisbane in circumstances where we were robbed in the last (Neale holding the ball, Andrews’ hold on Mayne) show that we can be competitive against some of the better sides. Equally, the loss against West Coast was a decent effort, something which we lack in spades when we lose - effort.

When we click and have the game on our terms, we’re more than capable as shown by the win against Carlton.

Weidemann would give us a genuine tall forward as a target and take some heat off De Goey, Mihocek and Cameron. Matt Crouch would be a consistent accumulator in our midfield and someone who could assist Adams, as well as a replacement for Pendles in the midfield. As for outside run, we could perhaps look to transition Crisp into permanent midfield or target a Richards or Lipinski from the Dogs. Elliot if he comes back fit enough May also be able to operate in the mids, as he did in 2020.

The wing is a spot we could use to good effect to get more games into the likes of Poulter and other developing mids. On top of this, we may wish to start players in the centre square, much like Melbourne have been doing with Pickett. Gives them some exposure to the rigours of the centre bounce and also asks the opposition midto make a decision whether to go with them, or seek to pick up the ‘true’ mid. Essentially, keeps the opposition guessing.

Key to much of this however is regime change. Players need a fresh start and our identity as a team needs a reboot which gives us the ability to bring fresh ideas rather than relying on Bucks’ tried and tested plan, which is now too familiar to the opposition and has no Plan B.

 

[magpies42]

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another on Weideman as I haven't seen enough of him but from the little I have he appears quite a straightforward lead and mark type key forward doesn't he?

That in itself isn't a deal breaker but with Cameron displaying some encouraging development as a forward so far this season he mightn't be as required come seasons end as we believe right now.

Getting key forwards is a waste of money or picks...if we don’t fix our midfield first.

 

[sr36]

It is a stupid argument. You can can try and justify it but it’s stupid. Just because he has not played Australian rules football does not mean he hasn’t played other sports he was a college athlete also it doesn’t stop him from aging. Most of your injuries aren’t related to contact so the fact he was playing a far lower contact sport in BBall is meaningless

As a skinny centre, he would have been smashed from pillar to post.

 

[partypie]

It is a stupid argument. You can can try and justify it but it’s stupid. Just because he has not played Australian rules football does not mean he hasn’t played other sports he was a college athlete also it doesn’t stop him from aging. Most of your injuries aren’t related to contact so the fact he was playing a far lower contact sport in BBall is meaningless

It's not a stupid argument just because you can't comprehend it. Try not to confuse your desire to see him shuffled out the door with his physical ability to keep playing football well beyond what you may consider his use-by date to be.

As I've said a couple of times it won't be issues around fitness or injury that bring his career to an end in the shorter term, it's whether he can actually find and maintain a sufficiently high level of play to maintain his spot in the team that will ultimately decide his fate in a football career sense from here.

 

[Fruit]

Do we have to give up our first pick in this years draft due to prior trading?

 

[manicpie]

Do we have to give up our first pick in this years draft due to prior trading?

Our first pick is already going to GWS