Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

[Mercy Seat]

Appreciate the response to the question Mercy Seat, yes it is a vastly different side now compared to 2019, so I'll take that as it was an overestimation of the talent of the group back then and we're now in full rebuild mode with the current crop.

I think there was an overestimation of our list, particularly some older guys who fell off the cliff rapidly (Stratts, Pops, Ceglar, Henderson), Tom Mitchell's injury, the impact of Cyril's retirement, no FA's coming through, the duds that were Patton and to a lesser extent Scully, and covid, which really fast-tracked the entire need to rebuild.

 

[SA HAWK]

Gee, I just got a little pep in my step for a Monday morning.

I didn't realise, but we only play four teams in the bottom 8 for the rest of the year. North have six games against a bottom 8 team.

We are very much a chance for Jason Horne.

Would be surprised if we get out of the bottom 4 but can't see us finishing 18th.

 

[Brishawk]

Just want to get the general opinions on this board to see if the majority think Clarko will take us to the promised land yet again in the 4 years remaining on his contract ?

When I look at our list as a whole I think we are a couple of pieces away. 2019 will likely be the last season for players such as Burgoyne, Roughead, Birchall* ( hasn't played for 2 years anyways) and maybe even Poppy and these players will need to be replaced. I'm hopeful that players such as Smith, Big boy, Stratton and Frawley still have 3 years of pretty good footy left in the. The core of our list now players like Mitchell, Jaeger, Bruest, Gunston, Wingard, Sicily, Hardwick, Scully ( ankle pending) hopefully have 5+ years left.

As an overall I think we have some chance of saluting in the next 4 years, but it will require some internal development from the kids, Worpel, Morrsion, Howe ( Though not really a kid anymore), Lewis, Hanrahan, Moore, Jiath, Glass, Nash etc, + a couple more shrewd trade periods to get us to the pinnacle again.

Just an honest question, we all get things horribly wrong from time to time, no shame in putting your hand up and saying yeah I was wildly off the mark.

From reading through the all the threads I'd say most people would be leading towards I got the talent levels on the list horribly wrong rather than Clarko not getting the best out of them.

Although people often disagree with me, so I was just seeking clarity on which one it was or maybe a combination of both ?

Are you going to put up your hand as being wildly wrong, first?

 

[The hands of stone]

I think there was an overestimation of our list, particularly some older guys who fell off the cliff rapidly (Stratts, Pops, Ceglar, Henderson), Tom Mitchell's injury, the impact of Cyril's retirement, no FA's coming through, the duds that were Patton and to a lesser extent Scully, and covid, which really fast-tracked the entire need to rebuild.

Cyrils retirement cannot be understated . Noone ever really mentions it .
I think it had a huge effect on the playing group and the club in general.
Its like a lot of the air went out of the balloon.

You cant replace a guy like that , let alone at no notice.

The club has made errors but that was just something that has magnified everything else ten fold .

 

[Mercy Seat]

Cyrils retirement cannot be understated . Noone ever really mentions it .
I think it had a huge effect on the playing group and the club in general.
Its like a lot of the air went out of the balloon.

You cant replace a guy like that , let alone at no notice.

The club has made errors but that was just something that has magnified everything else ten fold .

Our forward line has never been the same.

 

[Brishawk]

Our forward line has never been the same.

How can that possibly be? I read on big footy that Cyril was overrated!?!

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Are you going to put up your hand as being wildly wrong, first?

I was wrong, but I was also mislead or the club was mislead in the sense I had it on good authority we'd be very likely to add a couple of A graders In free agency which never happened.

Looking at that list the youngsters sadly haven't kicked on or the majority of them.

The core aren't as good as we hoped a bit through injury and some just not living up to expectation.

I wonder if the club knew we'd fail so miserably in Free agency would they go down a different path 3 or so years ago?

 

[Hawk Dork]

I was wrong, but I was also mislead or the club was mislead in the sense I had it on good authority we'd be very likely to add a couple of A graders In free agency which never happened.

Looking at that list the youngsters sadly haven't kicked on or the majority of them.

The core aren't as good as we hoped a bit through injury and some just not living up to expectation.

I wonder if the club knew we'd fail so miserably in Free agency would they go down a different path 3 or so years ago?

how would you know that GWS was going to get the nod so they could match

 

[HODGEYROAD]

how would you know that GWS was going to get the nod so they could match

Yeah no way of knowing that was going to happen.

I suppose where I'll admit fault is even if we landed a Lynch and Coniglio for eg, we still really wouldn't be better than a middle rung type side. I did think initially if we landed a couple of big FA's our strategy may work.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Yeah no way of knowing that was going to happen.

I suppose where I'll admit fault is even if we landed a Lynch and Coniglio for eg, we still really wouldn't be better than a middle rung type side. I did think initially if we landed a couple of big FA's our strategy may work.

you land those 2 and more would have followed

 

[HODGEYROAD]

you land those 2 and more would have followed

That's also a fair point.

Our strategy was hugely reliant on some Free Agency hits and sadly we failed miserably in that aspect.

 

[Brishawk]

I was wrong, but I was also mislead or the club was mislead in the sense I had it on good authority we'd be very likely to add a couple of A graders In free agency which never happened.

Looking at that list the youngsters sadly haven't kicked on or the majority of them.

The core aren't as good as we hoped a bit through injury and some just not living up to expectation.

I wonder if the club knew we'd fail so miserably in Free agency would they go down a different path 3 or so years ago?

On face value our strategy was reliant on free agents joining the club. So with the benefit of hindsight, no way to we make all of those trades. Mitchell was a no brainer at that price but not clear we pay as heavy a price for omeara and chad. Most of the other trades we did were marginal picks for marginal players. Mostly for structural players in areas we lacked. Might have ended a few careers earlier to make way for new blood. Might have traded out a couple of players for picks.

Easy to say all this in hindsight though. We had good reason to go down the strategy we took. We took a swing and missed. Now we pay the price and build again through the draft.

 

[Dipper]

Don't think everyone is a yes man, clarko has been told no and he doesn't like it. Has come to a head and 1 of the 2 will not be there much longer. The no man seems to be infuriating clarko cause can't get his own way anymore. Maybe grain of salt with this post, I don't really know for sure.

It seems like you don't want to name names, which is fair enough, is the 'No' person higher up the chain of command (can only really be one of two people), on the list management side ( loggerheads regarding drafting v trading strategy) or an assistant coach, which I suppose would be gameplan related?



On moto g(7) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FactsNotBS]

somewhat irrelevant to the current discussion but this is my piece: i can easily, happily and humbly accept criticism of the club. we have clearly made a number of mistakes along the way that need to be rectified going forward. the discussion of which, while obviously fruitless, is a key part of why this forum exists and is a great thinking exercise.

what I cannot accept (not pointing any fingers) is supporters who suggest that the last 5 years 'have been wasted', as though winning flags is the only meritious experience of supporting a club. i refuse to take that.

i look back and think: how good was it seeing Sicily blossom into being a deadset AA calibre player in 17, watching Tom Mitchell dominate the competition in 18, seeing Jaeger and Scully finally get back and play a full season after close to career-ending injuries, watching Mitch Lewis become a beast in 19, Worpel becoming the youngest PCM since lethal, seeing Will Day's poise and skill, the joy of watching Stratton and Poppy be sent out on a high (how good was Stratton's goal!!), Roughy's SIX in the game vs GC, CJ winning his first game vs GWS in the ******* snow of all things, our win vs Essendon after being down by 40 points in R1, Kosi kicking huge bags, CJ blossoming into the player we hoped he could be, Scrim's mark vs West coast in 19, and so much more.

Yeah, it's been sh*t and the club should be scrutinised for the errors made and we need to think about how we will succeed going forward. We can't just live off former glory and expect it to repeat itself. But I think in times like these we also need to take a step back and have some perspective on how good this sport is to watch, how much we love our club and all the small things along the way that make it worth it.

We will keep making mistakes, and we will keep getting frustrated, angry and bemused at decisions made. But we can't lose sight of all the small victories, the 2 passages in a game that make us smile, the vintage Punky rove and goal, the beautiful Impey run and carry.

it's these very events that make us furiously type out long-winded posts to other forum users in disagreement that most people would think is stupid and a waste of time. In times like this, apathy would be the best option, but we all know that apathy is simply not an option.

Before we pot each other, players, coaches — even if we stand on opposite ends of the spectrum — I believe it is worth remembering these things that make us smile, and that the reason we are so passionate is because we all want what is best for the club. Lesser fans wouldn't understand, and that's what makes this forum, this game, and this club great.

Anyway, looking forward to Howe and Ceglar getting a game next week

Yes agree but this idea of the club making mistakes...what were they? When they recruit players that dont work out, is that a mistake? Or is it more unlucky? Under the circumstances where we were not going to get a first round key forward, it was a no brainer to get Patton cheap and clear out the salary cap a little by bumping Birch etc (as much as I hate typing that). In hindsight ( a wonderful thing) they should have kept the draft picks they had maybe but a premiership always comes with a list profile of a balanced number of players across 18-23, 23-28 and 28 plus ages.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Gaston]

Our forward line has never been the same.

Defenders waltz out of our forward line with no fear what so ever.
No perceived pressure, nothing.

All because of the best tandem the game will see for years, Cyril and Poppy.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I was wrong, but I was also mislead or the club was mislead in the sense I had it on good authority we'd be very likely to add a couple of A graders In free agency which never happened.

Looking at that list the youngsters sadly haven't kicked on or the majority of them.

The core aren't as good as we hoped a bit through injury and some just not living up to expectation.

I wonder if the club knew we'd fail so miserably in Free agency would they go down a different path 3 or so years ago?

One of the good things though is that the AFL ensured Cogs stayed at the Giants, otherwise he was coming to us on big coin.

Re FA, surely the club knew we were attractive for a while there, but once the wins started drying up, other clubs would overtake us?

 

[WillowSF]

I really have not problem with us finishing last. The quicker we get more talen in the better and the stigma of getting the spoon with quickly offset by a premiership. Sadly we are well below a middle of the road side and need multiple drafts to build a competitive list. Hoping to see Morris get a call up this week.

I have supported the Hawks my entire life and we have never finished last during that period. The club must hang tough together and avoid the embarrassment of a last place finish. We have seriously lost our way and some poor recruiting decisions have been made but things can change quickly to have us heading upwards again. Make those changes in the off season but do everything possible to win games for the remainder of 2021 while giving our younger players an opportunity. Success breeds success.

 

[Opens positions]

It seems like you don't want to name names, which is fair enough, is the 'No' person higher up the chain of command (can only really be one of two people), on the list management side ( loggerheads regarding drafting v trading strategy) or an assistant coach, which I suppose would be gameplan related?

Reply to Dipper post.
Due to club's success may have possibly become complacent with protocol. Matter of turning clock back to strictly following club policy and procedures.
I think it's a matter of follow proper procedure and do what you are employed for or you are free to look elsewhere.
Think the no man is just saying go do your job and leave other departments do there's.
But what do I know, I climbed a tree after to many amber's and split my scull open when came crashing down.

 

[Opens positions]

I can't even reply to a post correctly. Can't get my reply to post separate.

 

[Brishawk]

Re FA, surely the club knew we were attractive for a while there, but once the wins started drying up, other clubs would overtake us?

What do you mean by this? Cogs resigned in 2019 and we have hit the draft in both the following offseason. What were you expecting of the club? Or are you talking about other free agents?

 

[spotthedot]

We seriously need a better midfield coach, Bolton needs to move on from coaching. We also need to go after Leppitsch. Apparently Pies are after him and he’s considering it.

bolton...hmmm...why isnt he mentioned in dispatches more? for the life of me, i dont know why we took him back. was this a clarko yes man appointment?

 

[William Wonka]

I think we need some perspective here (easily lost after a few bad games I know).

What we are doing at the moment isnt working but that doesn't mean all is hopeless.

Most of our issues in my opinion come from our midfield.
Our backline has big weaknesses but is passable considering the bombardment it has faced at times, also adding Sicily and Day (hopefully DGB) will improve things significantly.

Our fowardline is essentially untried.
Decent delivery to Kosi, Lewis and Gunston should see results into the future. Bruest, Ollie and Brockman at their feet has potential enough.

Our midfield though...
Something is very wrong but it certainly isnt lack of talent ffs. We have a Brownlow medalist, a player who many rated as the best young talent since Judd, a bloke who won the Crimmins in his second season, a triple premiership player, our clubs Captain and Chad ******* Wingard.

The pieces are all there they just aren't fitting together.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I think we need some perspective here (easily lost after a few bad games I know).

What we are doing at the moment isnt working but that doesn't mean all is hopeless.

Most of our issues in my opinion come from our midfield.
Our backline has big weaknesses but is passable considering the bombardment it has faced at times, also adding Sicily and Day (hopefully DGB) will improve things significantly.

Our fowardline is essentially untried.
Decent delivery to Kosi, Lewis and Gunston should see results into the future. Bruest, Ollie and Brockman at their feet has potential enough.

Our midfield though...
Something is very wrong but it certainly isnt lack of talent ffs. We have a Brownlow medalist, a player who many rated as the best young talent since Judd, a bloke who won the Crimmins in his second season, a triple premiership player, our clubs Captain and Chad ******* Wingard.

The pieces are all there they just aren't fitting together.

I'd be very surprised if he was on the list in 2022, nice guy just not sure he has what it takes to be a good AFL footballer.

 

[m0zza]

Middle of the road?

Is that like a crash barrier...or road kill?