Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[Tonatopia]

This entire thread can be summed up as "I'm ignoring the financial realities of how much money the recreational activities of medium sized regional cities is worth", "My idea is so self-evidently brilliant that absolutely none of the clubs have taken any steps to go in that direction whatsoever" and "the billionaires".

Rubbish.
The free market is the free market. No one should be putting arbitary figures on what a club MUST pay its players.

Just let the free market go. Water will naturally find its level.
Some clubs will be missmanaged (like Collingwood), and pay the consequences, while others which have diciplined spending and a moneyball approach, will punch well beyond their weight. The safety net is the divisional structure, which allows clubs to bottom out, without collapse. And clubs with a historical suppoprter base, will not jump ship, unlike GC and GWS. This is why we should be targeting mature markets.

And billionaires exist. And billionaires play. Let them play.
Hey Mr Forrester, you do great work with indigenous foundations, are you interested in providing health and hope for the Alice Springs Community?
A div2/3 side will cost you $10M to set up, and you'll own the rights to the club.
Interested?

Hey BHP (Broken Hill), Mildura is just down the road, are you interested in getting involved?

Ye have little faith in free markets and good management.

 

[RedV3x]

I'm pretty sure both rugby's use it (or have used it) in england and in both instances it has probably been to their detriment.

Basically - the bigger (as in important and professional) the league then the less likely to have pro/rel systems.

 

[Engimal v3]

My hometown in Tassie only has 600 people, but I'm thinking we might sneak in under Div 4? Can throw in a 5k capacity roofed stadium if that'll help sweeten the deal.

 

[Tonatopia]

Basically - the bigger (as in important and professional) the league then the less likely to have pro/rel systems.

It dosnt get much bigger than the EPL.

 

[NoobPie]

It dosnt get much bigger than the EPL.

NFL, MLB, NBA.....

Apart from that only soccer competitions. Nothing remotely near the commercial size of the AFL uses pro/rel

 

[Tonatopia]

Fitzroy could raise $60M to re-develop Brunswick Street Oval? This is pie in the sky stuff.

Fitzroy already has a women's team and it hasnt made much difference to their bottom line.

Im just saying that Punt Rd got offered $60M for an upgrade. Maybe Brunswick St Oval could scrap together $15M if a decent plan was hatched.

 

[Tonatopia]

If we look at the EPL, although the major spenders occupy the top 4 positions, we find Westham in 6th position with only 22 players on their list, and the 13th biggest player market cap, worth less that 25% of Manchester Cities market cap.

It is worth noting that this kind of variation would not happen in Australian football, because most of our clubs are owned by members, and there would be little interest from overseas Billionaires to get involved. Although, if a billionaire wanted a team in LA, I wouldnt argue.

Premier League 22/23

This is the page for the Premier League, with an overview of fixtures, tables, dates, squads, market values, statistics and history.

www.transfermarkt.com

 

[Tonatopia]

And Barnsly in the second division is in 5th position, but 18th in spending, about 20% of the Bournemouth.

 

[NoobPie]

If we look at the EPL, although the major spenders occupy the top 4 positions, we find Westham in 6th position with only 22 players on their list, and the 13th biggest player market cap, worth less that 25% of Manchester Cities market cap.

It is worth noting that this kind of variation would not happen in Australian football, because most of our clubs are owned by members, and there would be little interest from overseas Billionaires to get involved. Although, if a billionaire wanted a team in LA, I wouldnt argue.

Premier League 22/23

This is the page for the Premier League, with an overview of fixtures, tables, dates, squads, market values, statistics and history.

www.transfermarkt.com

View attachment 1142866

Sorry what point are you trying to make that is actually in favour of your broader position?!?!

 

[Tonatopia]

Sorry what point are you trying to make that is actually in favour of your broader position?!?!

That even though ladder position vastly reflects the player valuation, it is not always the case. There are exceptions, which offers hope, which keeps people engaged.

And I'd say, that because footy is based more on attitude and dedication than pure skill, that the good team can be coached into a great team. Id say that would be a bit harder in soccer, because it is more individual skill based.
Look at the Tigers, a champion team, not a team of champions.

And it highlights the truly authoritarian nature of the AFL, by demanding that all clubs pay the same salary cap, and have the same amount of players on their list and strictly regulate drafting and offer concessions and compensation. Honestly, how can such a regulated model be as authentic as the free market model of the EPL. There is nowhere to hide in the EPL. Its 100% real life. Its honest, not contrived.

 

[Private Hudson]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[NoobPie]

That even though ladder position vastly reflects the player valuation, it is not always the case. There are exceptions, which offers hope, which keeps people engaged.

And I'd say, that because footy is based more on attitude and dedication than pure skill, that the good team can be coached into a great team. Id say that would be a bit harder in soccer, because it is more individual skill based.
Look at the Tigers, a champion team, not a team of champions.

And it highlights the truly authoritarian nature of the AFL, by demanding that all clubs pay the same salary cap, and have the same amount of players on their list and strictly regulate drafting and offer concessions and compensation. Honestly, how can such a regulated model be as authentic as the free market model of the EPL. There is nowhere to hide in the EPL. Its 100% real life. Its honest, not contrived.

Yeah sure......the league just won by a team funded by a corrupt regime that outspent everybody else is not at all contrived!

 

[theyellowsash]

The opening sentence of the op is in the top 10 stupidest things ever posted on bigfooty.

 

[Tonatopia]

Yeah sure......the league just won by a team funded by a corrupt regime that outspent everybody else is not at all contrived!

AUD$16B worth of players in one league. It nuts.
Thats a serious amount of energy.

 

[NoobPie]

AUD$16B worth of players in one league. It nuts.
Thats a serious amount of energy.

Are you a bot?

 

[RedV3x]

It dosnt get much bigger than the EPL.

If soccer was confined to just England then the pro/rel wouldn't exist.

 

[big_e]

Depends on the quality. It doesn't have to be expensive.
Radio is pretty cheap.

If Alice Springs was playing Cairns in Div3, and it was broadcasted on ABC at 2pm on Sunday, I'd watch it.

They are currently broadcasting VFL on channel 7, games like Casey v Frankston, which in essence, is only a reserves comp.

If say a Warrnambool was playing in Div4, I'd assume that there would be demand from the local TV and radio stations, and the Reginal pubs would want to be showing the game. Country footy is pretty big.

Also, CH7 for example, have three free to air channels. They need content, and football production costs a fairly cheap.

I think there would be a market, but it would be region specific.

Channel Seven receive more than a million bucks to telecast the WAFL. That's how little people care about second tier now - the competition has to pay to get it on TV.

So enlighten us how much the TV rights for division for would go for?

 

[RedV3x]

the competition has to pay to get it on TV.

No.

 

[The 747]

Dear OP, you would like Ayn Rand books.

Leaving aside the ideological elements of the proposal, the finances do not stack up and will never stack up sorry.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

And Barnsly in the second division is in 5th position, but 18th in spending, about 20% of the Bournemouth.
View attachment 1142870

Because Bournemouth have legacy contracts from when they were in the PL last season. I don't even follow sokkah and I know this.

 

[big_e]

No.

TV deal offers boost to WAFL

Channel Seven will telecast WAFL matches this year after the WA Football Commission clinched a three-year deal for 18 home-and-away games plus finals to be shown on free-to-air television Statewide.

au.news.yahoo.com

WAFL clubs had to spend some of their marketing money to help pay for it.

 

[Tonatopia]

TV deal offers boost to WAFL

Channel Seven will telecast WAFL matches this year after the WA Football Commission clinched a three-year deal for 18 home-and-away games plus finals to be shown on free-to-air television Statewide.

au.news.yahoo.com

Good article;
---------
"It also gave young players a chance to showcase themselves to AFL clubs.
"We want the WAFL to be the premier State league competition, providing the football community with a pathway into the AFL system," Mr Sautner.
"The best possible opportunity for the players to get exposure and the competition and clubs to flourish is by having maximum exposure and maximum marketing opportunities."
A similar deal for SANFL matches last year generated an 89 per cent increase in viewing audience and a 5 per cent increase in match-day attendances, Mr Sautner said.
---------

He perfectly illustrates the aim of 'providing a pathway to the AFL system'.

Is not a divisional structure the most effective pathway?

 

[NoobPie]

Good article;
---------
"It also gave young players a chance to showcase themselves to AFL clubs.
"We want the WAFL to be the premier State league competition, providing the football community with a pathway into the AFL system," Mr Sautner.
"The best possible opportunity for the players to get exposure and the competition and clubs to flourish is by having maximum exposure and maximum marketing opportunities."
A similar deal for SANFL matches last year generated an 89 per cent increase in viewing audience and a 5 per cent increase in match-day attendances, Mr Sautner said.
---------

He perfectly illustrates the aim of 'providing a pathway to the AFL system'.

Is not a divisional structure the most effective pathway?

No.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Hawthorn and North Melbourne were a relatively small clubs in the 1970's and early 80's in the free market era, yet became a dominant and successful club, due to good management, obtaining good coaches and players.

And Collingwood was and always has been one of the most popular club's, yet faced financial difficulties due to poor management, more than anything else. Clubs must be responsible or suffer the consequences. They shouldn't just be bailed out, or worse, change the whole dynamics of the league to cater for incompetence.

Before you throw mud, probably good to get you facts together.

Come on, everybody knows the limited number of teams who were successful in the 70s and early 80s was very much due to the inequities of the zone system.

 

[Tonatopia]

Come on, everybody knows the limited number of teams who were successful in the 70s and early 80s was very much due to the inequities of the zone system.

True, but......
I dont think Ron Barassi nor John Kennedy were fixed to any zone.

Zones and Drafts are antiquated systems. In this day and age, people should be free to choose who they want to play for.