List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

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CHUBBSS

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Apr 6, 2010
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Insane that people think he wouldn't make best 22 in a premiership contending team right now.
I think he would make it easily just concerned if his speed dips anymore, it already feels like his a step behind and forwards are only getting faster
 

Topiary

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Jul 22, 2016
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It is useful to listen to this. From 32 min Mark.

 

RoughysMullet

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 8, 2017
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It is useful to listen to this. From 32 min Mark.

Was good to hear Clarko speak and I thought the panel asked some really good questions..

As Clarko says we hope we can turn things around quickly but it may take us a bit longer, a lot of it will depend on good fortune..

One thing Hawthorn people will always know is that we’ve done it “The Hard Way” before and we will do it again..
 
Oct 2, 2014
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It is useful to listen to this. From 32 min Mark.


Loved it. As expected Clarkson comes across as a class act and answers some really thoughtful questions. I especially liked that he alluded to playing the kids in the second half of the year - naming DGB, Day, Newcombe & Callow.

I also found it interesting that his exact words were 'whether they go well or not isn't the point, it's just understanding the level and speed of the game & the strength of the opposition players'. I feel like that's a change in selection philosophy and hopefully we'll see it in action.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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I would love to have seen the post if we had of picked up two 25yr olds in the msd :D

Only thing with your post is your hatred of Clarko, which is borderline obsessive (makes me think you're in fact another well know poster, but anyway) did you ever stop and think that Clarko was promised a couple of the very best free agents by a over confident smug list boss, and because of that he also convinced Clarko that it was okay to trade out all future picks for Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard because we won't need them because of the free agents we're gonna get, but our list boss totally effed it up and so here we are?

But Clarko it is because he's stuck coaching what he's been given. Yet now said list boss is gone we're adding youth at every chance - oh but Clarko isn't playing them all at once - gripe gripe gripe .........Lmao

Once again you've got it all completely wrong. I've seen you post similar stuff with the same sentiment multiple times now. It's just not true.

Who do you think makes to call to pursue free agents, and identifies which of the potential free agents he'd like the club to pursue?

Who do you think makes to call to trade away picks for experienced players?

I'll make it clear one last time - out of Clarko and Wrighty, only one of them wanted to hit the draft and rebuild properly. And they had identified that years ago. That person is no longer at the club.
 
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Nov 13, 2018
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Once again you've got it all completely wrong. I've seen you post similar stuff with the same sentiment multiple times now. It's just not true.

Who do you think makes to call to pursue free agents, and identifies which of the potential free agents he'd like the club to pursue?

Who do you think makes to call to trade away picks for experienced players?

I'll make it clear one last time - out of Clarko and Wrighty, only one of them wanted to hit the draft and rebuild properly. And they had identified that years ago. That person is no longer at the club.
I'm glad.
You think we have a bad list now?
It would have been horrendous had we done that and gone deep into drafts that turned out to be good to ordinary.
Even worse if we traded out Breust and Gunston.
 

Billyc

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Oct 17, 2009
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I'm glad.
You think we have a bad list now?
It would have been horrendous had we done that and gone deep into drafts that turned out to be good to ordinary.
Even worse if we traded out Breust and Gunston.
Instead of being 17th and losing to 18th, we might be 18th and losing to 17th. But with more upcoming talent on the list.

What happened happened. But the important thing is not to repeat the mistake now. I see plenty running the same argument against trading senior players who have led us to 17th.
 
Aug 2, 2013
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It is useful to listen to this. From 32 min Mark.

Class act.
Just affirms we're lucky to have him.
 

LMGjr

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Jul 25, 2020
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Once again you've got it all completely wrong. I've seen you post similar stuff with the same sentiment multiple times now. It's just not true.

Who do you think makes to call to pursue free agents, and identifies which of the potential free agents he'd like the club to pursue?

Who do you think makes to call to trade away picks for experienced players?

I'll make it clear one last time - out of Clarko and Wrighty, only one of them wanted to hit the draft and rebuild properly. And they had identified that years ago. That person is no longer at the club.
Once again your hatred of Clarko shines through, it's all we usually read from you, though you have managed to 'mature" a tiny bit. So, I don't give a toss mate what you think you know because here is a simple fact:

Clarko is still coach and has the runs on the board - the list manager who kept picking the same slow can't hit the side of a barn mids in drafts is gone - get over it, because this my friend is a fact. Did you get it - Clarko is still coach, so whatever you say about the past doesn't matter, it does not matter one wit as to what happens today, because I repeat Clarko is still coach - don't drop dead from fright knowing that all your whinging about Clarko has so far come to naught - one day you'll be right though and he will be gone.

One more fact mate in your witch hunting - the whole club is responsible for where we are, but the head coach always ends up wearing it, always. So just have patience, or you should have got off your arse away from the keyboard and started gathering support for a rival ticket four years ago. It's so simple.

Until then find something else to whine about because you ain't gonna change it continuously whinning on here. Let me know when you are arranging a rival ticket, rather then bitching behind a keyboard, then I will actually take you seriously. The people who want Clarko gone are always going to believe that narrative - does it mean we should have to hear about it over and over and over and over and over and over again until he's 250 years old still trying to climb the mountain while you whine doing nothing.

He's still the coach mate, either get behind it or get a ticket against him going - the time for talk about this whole subject was dead 2 years ago.

Enjoy your day. :cool:
 
Mar 24, 2017
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Once again your hatred of Clarko shines through, it's all we usually read from you, though you have managed to 'mature" a tiny bit. So, I don't give a toss mate what you think you know because here is a simple fact:

Clarko is still coach and has the runs on the board - the list manager who kept picking the same slow can't hit the side of a barn mids in drafts is gone - get over it, because this my friend is a fact. Did you get it - Clarko is still coach, so whatever you say about the past doesn't matter, it does not matter one wit as to what happens today, because I repeat Clarko is still coach - don't drop dead from fright knowing that all your whinging about Clarko has so far come to naught - one day you'll be right though and he will be gone.

One more fact mate in your witch hunting - the whole club is responsible for where we are, but the head coach always ends up wearing it, always. So just have patience, or you should have got off your arse away from the keyboard and started gathering support for a rival ticket four years ago. It's so simple.

Until then find something else to whine about because you ain't gonna change it continuously whinning on here. Let me know when you are arranging a rival ticket, rather then bitching behind a keyboard, then I will actually take you seriously. The people who want Clarko gone are always going to believe that narrative - does it mean we should have to hear about it over and over and over and over and over and over again until he's 250 years old still trying to climb the mountain while you whine doing nothing.

He's still the coach mate, either get behind it or get a ticket against him going - the time for talk about this whole subject was dead 2 years ago.

Enjoy your day. :cool:
Yes, because opinions contrary to yours should be discouraged.
Organise a rival ticket? Righto.
 

LMGjr

Cancelled
Jul 25, 2020
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Yes, because opinions contrary to yours should be discouraged.
Organise a rival ticket? Righto.
Not at all mate.

You want to be miserable with the constant need to blame, instead of acting, then you're most likely in the right place (not to take away from those who actually do act and post on here all at once). I'm sure you can get support against my post - try it against the club that got us into this mess years ago (while also being the most successful club in bla bla bla bla) or let it go. Can't you see it's just making us as supporters look like sooks.

How we got here doesn't matter - can't you see that? All that matters is what we do NOW. I'd have been the first one to start a ticket mate if we had of grabbed more mature players in the MSD or traded out our picks, instead of sitting behind a keyboard throwing stones.

Who did what when doesn't matter - all that matters is now, and right now we are grabbing kids hand over fist and are starting to play them - isn't this what you've all been yelling for? Yet now it's about egos and who knows what when first instead of looking at what's happening right NOW.

Right now Clarko is still coach - get over it or do something
 

BurnaHawks

Team Captain
Sep 15, 2020
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I'm glad.
You think we have a bad list now?
It would have been horrendous had we done that and gone deep into drafts that turned out to be good to ordinary.
Even worse if we traded out Breust and Gunston.
I keep seeing… You think we’re bad now if we trade XYC / the senior Players. We’ll be so much worse.

It’s as bad as it can get. We got beaten by the 18th team. Who have better young talent coming through than us?

I really doubt we’ll win another game for the season. To make things worse, we won’t get 1 of the 2 clear best players in the draft. (I’m still excited about the draft possibilities though)

We have very little trade bait / players who hold trade value. And the players we do have that could enable us to get multiple picks inside the first round, people seem to think it’s inconceivable we trade them.

Wake up call. We will finish bottom 2 next year regardless of if those senior blokes are on our list or not.

Look at this list. These blokes have experience and can guide young blokes through there first couple of seasons.

Blake Hardwick - Sam Frost - Jarman Impey - Liam Shiels - Tom Phillips - Jack Scrimshaw - James Worpel - Ben McEvoy

This list - These blokes have value and could enable us to absolutely load up for 2021 draft.

Tom Mitchell - Chad Wingard - Luke Breust - Jack Gunston

SHORT TERM PAIN FOR LONG TERM GAIN

We could maneuver and bring in an extra 4 first round picks – 5 in the first 20 players in this year’s draft.

To add to the list of experienced guys above I would keep.

Jaeger O'Meara and James Sicily.

2022, figures crossed James Sicily comes back round one 2022 and has an all-Australian season and get offered huge $$ as a free agent.

2022 draft we have pick 1 and pick 2 compo for James Sicily.

SHORT TERM PAIN FOR LONG TERM GAIN

This may sound extreme, but our list needs a massive shake up.

Oh, and we’re not Carlton or Melbourne. This isn’t going to cause a massive chasm in the team, delaying the development progression of the newdraftees. I’m not gutting the team of heart and soul type players.

That was done a few years ago when we traded Hodgey, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis instead of keeping them and building through the draft with those guys leading the way.
 
Aug 11, 2013
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Once again your hatred of Clarko shines through, it's all we usually read from you, though you have managed to 'mature" a tiny bit. So, I don't give a toss mate what you think you know because here is a simple fact:

Clarko is still coach and has the runs on the board - the list manager who kept picking the same slow can't hit the side of a barn mids in drafts is gone - get over it, because this my friend is a fact. Did you get it - Clarko is still coach, so whatever you say about the past doesn't matter, it does not matter one wit as to what happens today, because I repeat Clarko is still coach - don't drop dead from fright knowing that all your whinging about Clarko has so far come to naught - one day you'll be right though and he will be gone.

One more fact mate in your witch hunting - the whole club is responsible for where we are, but the head coach always ends up wearing it, always. So just have patience, or you should have got off your arse away from the keyboard and started gathering support for a rival ticket four years ago. It's so simple.

Until then find something else to whine about because you ain't gonna change it continuously whinning on here. Let me know when you are arranging a rival ticket, rather then bitching behind a keyboard, then I will actually take you seriously. The people who want Clarko gone are always going to believe that narrative - does it mean we should have to hear about it over and over and over and over and over and over again until he's 250 years old still trying to climb the mountain while you whine doing nothing.

He's still the coach mate, either get behind it or get a ticket against him going - the time for talk about this whole subject was dead 2 years ago.

Enjoy your day. :cool:
YES!! Good onya mate. People must remember that Clarko is still 'young' as a coach, has the will to do it, and if anyone is going to turn this club around, Clarko is the coach we need at the club. At the least, reset, get the boat back on course and then can handover to "a" Sam Mitchell-type.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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I'm glad.
You think we have a bad list now?
It would have been horrendous had we done that and gone deep into drafts that turned out to be good to ordinary.
Even worse if we traded out Breust and Gunston.

Our drafting since 2015 has been pretty good.

If the 2019 (Day, Finn, Morris) and 2020 draftees (DGB, Downie, Mitchell, Brockman) hit the mark, then I think we could confidently say that our drafting post 2015 has been really good. Especially given the lack of picks and late picks.

The problem is, obviously, that we haven't had enough picks within that period. Let alone top picks.

Based on our recent track record - IMO we would be much better placed if we went to the draft earlier, as opposed to trading out all our top picks.
 
Jan 17, 2008
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Our drafting since 2015 has been pretty good.

If the 2019 (Day, Finn, Morris) and 2020 draftees (DGB, Downie, Mitchell, Brockman) hit the mark, then I think we could confidently say that our drafting post 2015 has been really good. Especially given the lack of picks and late picks.

The problem is, obviously, that we haven't had enough picks within that period. Let alone top picks.

Based on our recent track record - IMO we would be much better placed if we went to the draft earlier, as opposed to trading out all our top picks.
I think we needed to hit the draft instead of landing wingard. Or traded players out to secure wingard and still hit the draft with our first round pick. We desperately needed senior bodied mids due to not having recruited any for many years prior, So I can’t fault recruiting Mitchell. And there are reasons for the price we paid for omeara. But wingard left us too thing for talent coming through behind Mitchell and omeara. All good in hind sight I guess but we are here now and all that is left is to draft and improve the list until free agents find us appealing and try and land a few fringe players with development left in them.

I’d be ok with trading out a senior player for a pick. I wouldn’t gut the senior players and trade 3 or four of them. Will cripple us and slow our development. You can’t expect draftees to play 22 games in the middle.
 

Billyc

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 17, 2009
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Once again your hatred of Clarko shines through, it's all we usually read from you, though you have managed to 'mature" a tiny bit. So, I don't give a toss mate what you think you know because here is a simple fact:
"You rate player/coach less than I do, therefore you HATE player/coach" is probably the worst take on Bigfooty.

It is fair to criticise the senior coach who has overseen the last 5 years without a finals win and led us to 17th with a terrible list. If it were not for Clarko's incredible history, he would certainly have been sacked for it. So criticism is fair. The question to debate is how much his history counts for in terms of our next moves. I disagree with J2S and think that if Clarkson is fully committed now to rebuilding (and acknowledging the grave list management errors), I am happy to back him in. I doubt we could find a better coach if he's on the right page and fully invested. My concern is whether he is.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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Once again your hatred of Clarko shines through, it's all we usually read from you, though you have managed to 'mature" a tiny bit. So, I don't give a toss mate what you think you know because here is a simple fact:

Clarko is still coach and has the runs on the board - the list manager who kept picking the same slow can't hit the side of a barn mids in drafts is gone - get over it, because this my friend is a fact. Did you get it - Clarko is still coach, so whatever you say about the past doesn't matter, it does not matter one wit as to what happens today, because I repeat Clarko is still coach - don't drop dead from fright knowing that all your whinging about Clarko has so far come to naught - one day you'll be right though and he will be gone.

One more fact mate in your witch hunting - the whole club is responsible for where we are, but the head coach always ends up wearing it, always. So just have patience, or you should have got off your arse away from the keyboard and started gathering support for a rival ticket four years ago. It's so simple.

Until then find something else to whine about because you ain't gonna change it continuously whinning on here. Let me know when you are arranging a rival ticket, rather then bitching behind a keyboard, then I will actually take you seriously. The people who want Clarko gone are always going to believe that narrative - does it mean we should have to hear about it over and over and over and over and over and over again until he's 250 years old still trying to climb the mountain while you whine doing nothing.

He's still the coach mate, either get behind it or get a ticket against him going - the time for talk about this whole subject was dead 2 years ago.

Enjoy your day. :cool:

I have no hatred for Clarko. That's just painfully stupid to read. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? He's a living legend.

All I did was highlight how you were plainly wrong, yet again, about that whole situation. Because you are and it's not up for debate. Continuing to peddle that narrative of nonsense is just embarrassing. You were not only wrong, you had it all completely backwards.

So stop posting absolute that nonsense.

As for the rest of the drivel you posted there - just lol.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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"You rate player/coach less than I do, therefore you HATE player/coach" is probably the worst take on Bigfooty.

It is fair to criticise the senior coach who has overseen the last 5 years without a finals win and led us to 17th with a terrible list. If it were not for Clarko's incredible history, he would certainly have been sacked for it. So criticism is fair. The question to debate is how much his history counts for in terms of our next moves. I disagree with J2S and think that if Clarkson is fully committed now to rebuilding (and acknowledging the grave list management errors), I am happy to back him in. I doubt we could find a better coach if he's on the right page and fully invested. My concern is whether he is.

It's just painful to read.

The grand irony being he's someone who has a history of posting paragraphs of barely legible dribble, yet had the audacity to mention the maturity of other posters.
 

Jazzfan

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Apr 12, 2021
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So I am really hopeful, once we move Mitchell, that we can see a Parish style jump in year five for Worpel. Entering this year, Worpel, a year younger, looked more promising than Parish. Shiel goes out, Parish gets the responsibility and role that he craved, and boom, he's currently and All-Australian at this point.

We had Worpel, win a best and fairest at 20, who looked like anything, and then with Mitchell back he has regressed dramatically. I still think he has a huge jump in him, when we get back to making him a critical part of our midfield set-up.
 
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Jazzfan

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It is useful to listen to this. From 32 min Mark.


What is the relationship between Clarko and Mitchell like these days?
 
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