Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[ferball]

Yea, what a villain...

Asylum-seeker deaths at sea total nearly 1,000 in just over a decade

Crime commission reports 964 people have died since October 2001 in boats that foundered in Australian waters

www.google.com.au

We're not responsible for that and is *en low that politicians make out we are.

 

[B4Bear]

If this government gets a pass on their treatment of the Tamil family on Christmas Island, because Rudd set it up.

Then this government gets no kudos for the AFP and their massive sting operation, because Malcolm Frazer set them up.

Or maybe, just maybe, the government of the day is responsible for the actions carried out under its watch, regardless of who initiated a policy or piece of legislation.

 

[Val Keating]

Yea, what a villain...

Asylum-seeker deaths at sea total nearly 1,000 in just over a decade

Crime commission reports 964 people have died since October 2001 in boats that foundered in Australian waters

www.google.com.au

I know right. Imagine celebrating such harsh border protection that it’s received world wide condemnation.

'I stopped these': Scott Morrison keeps migrant boat trophy in office | Australian immigration and asylum | The Guardian

Australian prime minister who was instrumental in designing harsh border protection policies displays a block of metal in the shape of an Asian fishing boat

amp.theguardian.com

UN body condemns Australia for illegal detention of asylum seekers and refugees

Those unlawfully held remain in indefinite detention, where they have been held for up to nine years without charge

www.theguardian.com

 

[ferball]

It’s a bit gross that Morrison has a trophy of a boat that reads “I stopped these” on his office desk. Such a good Christian.

"Whatever you do to the least of my brothers you do to me."

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

We're not responsible for that and is fu**en low that politicians make out we are.

As I said, the process is so stagnated and cumbersome and the intakes so low that desperate people paid high sums to jump on dodgy boats to Australia.

I don’t know, but I rather they didn’t jump on the dodgy dangerous boats with their kids.

 

[ferball]

If this government gets a pass on their treatment of the Tamil family on Christmas Island, because Rudd set it up.

Then this government gets no kudos for the AFP and their massive sting operation, because Malcolm Frazer set them up.

Or maybe, just maybe, the government of the day is responsible for the actions carried out under its watch, regardless of who initiated a policy or piece of legislation.

That may be true but we can't pretend this is a partisan issue.

Its bipartisan. The ALP will suck too.

 

[B4Bear]

That may be true but we can't pretend this is a partisan issue.

Its bipartisan. The ALP will suck too.

They do suck at this. But they are not on the treasury benches, so they are inoculated from the current wanton cruelty.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is what arseholes do, turn boarder protection into a partisan issue then laugh when they know nothing will change..

Wow.......another lying phony............I'm stunned.

Anyway.....................Trump.

 

[ferball]

As I said, the process is so stagnated and cumbersome and the intakes so low that desperate people paid high sums to jump on dodgy boats to Australia.

I don’t know, but I rather they didn’t jump on the dodgy dangerous boats with their kids.

Its not your choice to make.

That is their business. And simply ask yourself what would motivate you to do that? How bad would things have to be for you to take that risk with the people you love the most, the people you consider the future?

The process was deliberately ****ed up by repeated governments of both stripes but the LIbs are really *en pond scum.

When Gillard tried to do what Fraser did with the Vietnamese for political reasons, ie create a regional solution to the problem, they blocked it at every opportunity to maintain the political advantage that whinging about asylum seekers on boats would give them.

Instead of solving the problem they hindered the solution so they would win an election. They are s**t stains.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I know right. Imagine celebrating such harsh border protection that it’s received world wide condemnation.

'I stopped these': Scott Morrison keeps migrant boat trophy in office | Australian immigration and asylum | The Guardian

Australian prime minister who was instrumental in designing harsh border protection policies displays a block of metal in the shape of an Asian fishing boat

amp.theguardian.com

UN body condemns Australia for illegal detention of asylum seekers and refugees

Those unlawfully held remain in indefinite detention, where they have been held for up to nine years without charge

www.theguardian.com

And. People don’t jump on dodgy boats anymore and aren’t dying by the hundreds anymore. We are still taking in thousands of refugees every year (should be a lot more).

Look, I’m not defending detention as it is crude and is effectively cold and inhumane, but I’m also glad people aren’t jumping on dodgy boats and dying by the hundreds.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Its not your choice to make.

That is their business. And simply ask yourself what would motivate you to do that? How bad would things have to be for you to take that risk with the people you love the most, the people you consider the future?

The process was deliberately f’ed up by repeated governments of both stripes but the LIbs are really fu**en pond scum.

When Gillard tried to do what Fraser did with the Vietnamese for political reasons, ie create a regional solution to the problem, they blocked it at every opportunity to maintain the political advantage that whinging about asylum seekers on boats would give them.

Instead of solving the problem they hindered the solution so they would win an election. They are sh*t stains.

I just said the process drove a lot of desperate people to make very risky decisions, but I rather they didn’t die because of that decision. Many died in our waters and our processes helped drive them here, so we must assume a level of responsibility.

We still bring in thousands of refugees on safe transport every year, but we should obviously be bringing in more based on the stats I posted earlier and vastly improving the accreditation process. Those things were viewed as too hard by consecutive governments.

 

[shintemaster]

The world includes the people who would otherwise come here asking for our help.

Am aware, just don't believe they are the primary audience. They're not voters, they don't donate. We can see with Morrison's approach to climate change in recent days that it matters little what the world thinks, the pace of change is slow until these pressures force change.

 

[B4Bear]

I just said the process drove a lot of desperate people to make very risky decisions, but I rather they didn’t die because of that decision. Many died in our waters and our processes helped drive them here, so we must assume a level of responsibility.

We still bring in thousands of refugees on safe transport every year, but we should obviously be bringing in more based on the stats I posted earlier and vastly improving the accreditation process. Those things were viewed as too hard by consecutive governments.

Our processes?

That is a cold way of describing our actions in the on-going civil war that was Afghanistan at the time?

We were just as culpable for creating the then on-going refugee crisis there as anyone else.

In fact we have just had more revelations after the four year inquiry as to some of the reasons why people fled that blighted country. Of course people jump on boats or any other mode to flee.

The 'stop them drowning' was a useful distraction, nothing more. It kept extreme right pacified by preventing brown Asian people arriving, whilst allowing the left to feel touchy feely about how good the policy was by preventing deaths at sea.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Does the ADF know that you post this stuff?

 

[AnEmptyChair]

And. People don’t jump on dodgy boats anymore and aren’t dying by the hundreds anymore. We are still taking in thousands of refugees every year (should be a lot more).

Look, I’m not defending detention as it is crude and is effectively cold and inhumane, but I’m also glad people aren’t jumping on dodgy boats and dying by the hundreds.

What, and the way to do that is ******* torture children? This is just obfuscating the point, mate, that this government right now put children in indefinite detention. Is that really okay as long as we're 'stopping the boats'? Which don't actually stop by the way. They either go somewhere else or get turned around by Border Security so when they flounder and drown it's not in Australian waters so that scumbag politicians can award themselves trophies and continue to spout nonsense about how we stopped deaths at sea when in fact we didn't do anything of the sort, we just condemned the most vulnerable people in the world to die somewhere else.

And imagine how desperate you need to be to put your family on one of those boats. This idea that continually gets peddled that they have this incredible range of choices is ridiculous. Also, a book I recommend to people about this: read The People Smuggler by Robin de Crespigny.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Our processes?

That is a cold way of describing our actions in the on-going civil war that was Afghanistan at the time?

We were just as culpable for creating the then on-going refugee crisis there as anyone else.

In fact we have just had more revelations after the four year inquiry as to some of the reasons why people fled that blighted country. Of course people jump on boats or any other mode to flee.

The 'stop them drowning' was a useful distraction, nothing more. It kept extreme right pacified by preventing brown Asian people arriving, whilst allowing the left to feel touchy feely about how good the policy was by preventing deaths at sea.

No, the immigration processes I have now criticised across four posts, but I know that you aren't really interested.

Yea, clearly the Soviet-Afghan war had nothing to do with it, or the civil war afterwards, or people flying planes into buildings, or the Saudi links to Osama, or the Taliban 's abhorrent human rights record before the war, or the Taliban's refusal to hand over Osama and his colleagues, or the US' piss-poor state-building and own war crimes (which make ours seem almost tame). Be careful assigning degrees of culpability.





Refugees predominately arrive in Indonesia before they tried for Australia, so clearly they had other modes of transport. As I said for now the fourth time, desperate people didn't want to wait on a cold, cumbersome and stagnated refugee process like the vast majority of refugees do.


Useful distraction?
It saved lives any way you like to spin it. Detention is horrid and is effectively inhumane in many respects, but I rather save their lives first.

 

[B4Bear]

No, the immigration processes I have now criticised across four posts, but I know that you aren't really interested.

Yea, clearly the Soviet-Afghan war had nothing to do with it, or the civil war afterwards, or people flying planes into buildings, or the Saudi links to Osama, or the Taliban 's abhorrent human rights record before the war, or the Taliban's refusal to hand over Osama and his colleagues, or the US' piss-poor state-building and own war crimes (which make ours seem almost tame). Be careful assigning degrees of culpability.


View attachment 1150425


Refugees predominately arrive in Indonesia before they tried for Australia, so clearly they had other modes of transport. As I said for now the fourth time, desperate people didn't want to wait on a cold, cumbersome and stagnated refugee process like the vast majority of refugees do.


Useful distraction?
It saved lives any way you like to spin it. Detention is horrid and is effectively inhumane in many respects, but I rather save their lives first.

Regarding Afghanistan we have a moral culpability there. Acknowledging the terrible history of the last 40 years. But a person doesn't flee in 2016 because of the Soviet invasion in 1979.

I think we broadly agree that the whole thing is just terrible, and that there are no easy solutions.

 

[koshari]

Wrong

Generalising.

 

[Ligma]

Generalising.

He is generalising, just cause I see a few old people in wheelchairs I don’t say every old person is in a wheelchair.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Regarding Afghanistan we have a moral culpability there. Acknowledging the terrible history of the last 40 years. But a person doesn't flee in 2016 because of the Soviet invasion in 1979.

I think we broadly agree that the whole thing is just terrible, and that there are no easy solutions.

You don't see the link between continued state destabilisation (including war) for nearly forty years and refugee increases?

I think we broadly agree that the whole thing is just terrible, and that there are no easy solutions.

I may seem callous, cold and partisan, but as you said, there are no easy solutions to a crisis that is only going to get worse. Wait for the CC refugees in coming decades.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Often feel like this with my long ass posts...

 

[B4Bear]

You don't see the link between continued state destabilisation (including war) for nearly forty years and refugee increases?

I think we broadly agree that the whole thing is just terrible, and that there are no easy solutions.

I may seem callous, cold and partisan, but as you said, there are no easy solutions to a crisis that is only going to get worse. Wait for the CC refugees in coming decades.

I think there are very distinctive phases, peaks and troughs depending on the actual security situation on the ground.

History has shown that people don't automatically flee a country that is poor, unless they are in imminent danger of being killed.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I think there are very distinctive phases, peaks and troughs depending on the actual security situation on the ground.

History has shown that people don't automatically flee a country that is poor, unless they are in imminent danger of being killed.

Definitely, refugee uptakes and all that based on shifting circumstances. My point was the country has been destabilised and been effectively at war for many decades. There was a sudden uptake in the 1990s as the Taliban assumed control of most of the country for example.

My central problem (outside my other criticisms) is this: Our intakes (process) don't ebb and flow to account for the changes as it is too cold and rigid. This is going to buckle with CC refugees over the coming decades.

True, but most Middle Eastern refugees, for whatever reason, make their way to Southeast Asia before attempting to come to Australia. I assume this is primarily for cultural reasons (muslims fleeing to a muslim country outside their own war-torn region), rather than a geographical staging area of sorts.

African refugees appears to operate differently, which is not really discussed as much for whatever reason.

 

[Chadwiko]

Definitely, uptakes and all that based on circumstances. My central problem (outside my other criticisms) is this: Our intakes (process) don't ebb and flow to account for the changes as it is too cold and rigid.

I get what you're saying, but it's not entirely accurate.

One of the key things I worked on personally when I was in the Settlement and Multicultural Affairs portfolio in Canberra was the 'surge' intake of Syrian and Iraqi asylum seekers following the escalation of hostilities there in 2015.

The Commonwealth Government (under Tony Abbott, no less!) announced an additional intake of 12000 Syrian/Iraqi refugees, on top of our existing annual intake of 13,000~.

It worked well because it was funded well. It demonstrated that our intake process are perfectly capable of being fluid instead of rigid.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I get what you're saying, but it's not entirely accurate.

One of the key things I worked on personally when I was in the Settlement and Multicultural Affairs portfolio in Canberra was the 'surge' intake of Syrian and Iraqi asylum seekers following the escalation of hostilities there in 2015.

The Commonwealth Government (under Tony Abbott, no less!) announced an additional intake of 12000 Syrian/Iraqi refugees, on top of our existing annual intake of 13,000~.

It worked well because it was funded well. It demonstrated that our intake process are perfectly capable of being fluid instead of rigid.

Well there you go and I agree I erred a bit in my rigid jargon, but my point was that it is usually the exception and not the rule in regards to funding a more flexible system year-in year-out.