Past #23: Ben McKay - gone to * as RFA - NMFC awarded Band 1 pick #3 compo

[Devington]

Nothing against any of those guys, I just didnt really agree with the “draft 4 KPDs across 2 drafts with our best picks” mentality.

Fair enough if you don't like the approach, but I think it would have been a 50% strike rate if not for injury and IMO that aspect of list management was OK. Also I don't think EVW was ever considered a KPD. Was a medium who could play a bit taller or smaller wasn't he?

 

[ferball]

He's a patsy for the "play the kids" football illiterates.

Nah.

He was just average and we needed better than that.

 

[Themanbun]

Fair enough if you don't like the approach, but I think it would have been a 50% strike rate if not for injury and IMO that aspect of list management was OK. Also I don't think EVW was ever considered a KPD. Was a medium who could play a bit taller or smaller wasn't he?

The original comment is also being a bit disingenuous.

Outside of McKay, the other picks used were 16, 25 and I think EVW was also in the 20s. The way it was framed made it sound like we blew 3 top 10 picks or something.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The original comment is also being a bit disingenuous.

Outside of McKay, the other picks used were 16, 25 and I think EVW was also in the 20s. The way it was framed made it sound like we blew 3 top 10 picks or something.

It's either disingenuous or another example of football ignorance.

The 2015 draft was a car crash past pick ~20, and Joyce traded IN Jed Anderson:

2015 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lomas]

It's either disingenuous or another example of football ignorance.

The 2015 draft was a car crash past pick ~20, and Joyce traded IN Jed Anderson:

2015 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know that it's wikipedia, but anyone explain to me the pick 23 pathway? for a pick in 2015?

Traded from Richmond; received from Gold Coast; received from Greater Western Sydney via a trade in 2012; received from Fremantle in 2011; compensation pick from 2011 (Palmer)

 

[Psicosis]

Fair enough if you don't like the approach, but I think it would have been a 50% strike rate if not for injury and IMO that aspect of list management was OK. Also I don't think EVW was ever considered a KPD. Was a medium who could play a bit taller or smaller wasn't he?

Yeah I did not like the approach. To focus so many of our earlier picks on one position (that wasn’t midfield), I just think is wrong.

I have nothing against VW, but even if he stayed injury free, I have my doubts on whether he’d have been a tick, but that’s just IMO.

McKay is a big tick. The decision to not blood games into him until Rhyce took over, is not a tick (also IMO).

A lot of clubs suffered due to expansion clubs and compromised drafts, which I accept. I don’t think we did ourselves any favours though. I think it’s impossible to not lay some blame on Brad and his puppet (Joyce) for their list management decisions, but I also get that some supporters are just happy to be making up the numbers in consecutive prelims.

 

[the big lebowski]

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

 

[Psicosis]

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

 

[justroyal]

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

What's funny, is prior to that year we made unsuccessful plays for Hall and Pittard. And then we went for them after we said we were rebuilding

 

[Snake_Baker]

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

Balme doesn't rort the salary cap in NZ to keep Martin, then Josh signs on (as planned), and there would be a bronze statue to Joyce outside Arden Street.

View attachment 1151132

More poorly thought out wallpapering.

Highlight the clubs with similar pick hands who aced North at these drafts?

 

[the big lebowski]

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Not the greatest draft class BUT

2013 was fantastic and shouldn’t be on the list

Drafting is the responsibility of the head recruiter.

Cam Zurhaar was 2016 as well EDIT No he was 2017

You’re not factoring in the trade for Jed, or the free agent acquisitions of Waite and Higgins.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Not the greatest draft class BUT

2013 was fantastic and shouldn’t be on the list

Drafting is the responsibility of the head recruiter.

Cam Zurhaar was 2016 as well

You’re not factoring in the trade for Jed, or the free agent acquisitions of Waite and Higgins.

The blokes not a bad poster, but we disagree with the "play the kids" stuff, and he's a leading advocate of the practice.

Naturally, he's going to try to justify it, but he's struggling to make a strong case and needs to manufacture a patsy.

 

[Devington]

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1 top 10 pick, 2 top 20. We didn't really have much to work with, nor did we make the best of he picks we had. '13 and '16 would get ticks from me nonetheless, but boy the middle 2 years are hellish.

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

Whatever way you look at it, whoever you want to blame (if anyone), 17-20 are missing years. If we full heartedly started to rebuild back then, then we'd be contending with Jz, Todd, Cunners, Taz all in their prime and able to drag the kids up with them. Odds are that by the time we are actually contending the kids will mostly have to drag themselves upwards with only a small handfull of senior players who have played their careers for the club.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

In fairness, it was hard for McKay to get games when Tarrant and Thompson were holding spots and were so durable.

He had an opportunity in 2019 but picked up and injury and got sick. Just like Durdin had an opportunity but cut his hand off opening a chip packet.

My only gripe is he should have been given games at the end of 2018 just to give him extra motivation leading into the 2019 pre-season. Sometimes the reality is very different than those looking back and blaming Scott and Joyce. McKay hasn't looked back since 2020 thankfully.

 

[the big lebowski]

1 top 10 pick, 2 top 20. We didn't really have much to work with, nor did we make the best of he picks we had. '13 and '16 would get ticks from me nonetheless, but boy the middle 2 years are hellish.


Whatever way you look at it, whoever you want to blame (if anyone), 17-20 are missing years. If we full heartedly started to rebuild back then, then we'd be contending with Jz, Todd, Cunners, Taz all in their prime and able to drag the kids up with them. Odds are that by the time we are actually contending the kids will mostly have to drag themselves upwards with only a small handfull of senior players who have played their careers for the club.

100% agree. Not so much 2017. But definitely 2018 and 2019.

 

[Snake_Baker]

In fairness, it was hard for McKay to get games when Tarrant and Thompson were holding spots and were so durable.

You would think that this stands out like dogs balls...............but not when you need to manufacture a patsy. It's crickets then.

 

[Psicosis]

Balme doesn't rort the salary cap in NZ to keep Martin, then Josh signs on (as planned), and there would be a bronze statue to Joyce outside Arden Street.


More poorly thought out wallpapering.

Highlight the clubs with similar pick hands who aced North at these drafts?

Well if we use the 2014 draft for example - the bulldogs had worse picks then us and ended up with McLean, Dale and Daniel. Touk Miller was also selected after we’d had two bites at the cherry, despite needing a midfielder IMO.

There were some bizarre decisions made (drafting multiple KPDs, taking hardly AFL standard Queenslanders, taking midfielders that cannot kick) during this tenure, and I don’t apologise for not just turning a blind eye to it.

 

[the big lebowski]

You would think that this stands out like dogs balls...............but not when you need to manufacture a patsy. It's crickets then.

The board has escaped blame unfairly I think.

Though I also believe they have done very well in off field matters. Especially the girls team

 

[Snake_Baker]

Well if we use the 2014 draft for example - the bulldogs had worse picks then us and ended up with McLean, Dale and Daniel. Touk Miller was also selected after we’d had two bites at the cherry, despite needing a midfielder IMO.

There were some bizarre decisions made (drafting multiple KPDs, taking hardly AFL standard Queenslanders, taking midfielders that cannot kick) during this tenure, and I don’t apologise for not just turning a blind eye to it.

This is light years from an acceptable rebuttal.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

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Clarke got turned into Aaron Hall so not too bad in the end.

 

[Psicosis]

In fairness, it was hard for McKay to get games when Tarrant and Thompson were holding spots and were so durable.

He had an opportunity in 2019 but picked up and injury and got sick. Just like Durdin had an opportunity but cut his hand off opening a chip packet.

My only gripe is he should have been given games at the end of 2018 just to give him extra motivation leading into the 2019 pre-season. Sometimes the reality is very different than those looking back and blaming Scott and Joyce. McKay hasn't looked back since 2020 thankfully.

We are expecting to play Corr, McKay & Tarrant in the same back 6. I see no reason why we couldn’t have played McKay, Tarrant and Scooter together, especially coming off a bottom 4 season.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The board has escaped blame unfairly I think.

Don;t get me started on that. They make Teflon look like superglue.

 

[Psicosis]

This is light years from an acceptable rebuttal.

You asked for better players taken at similar picks by a club. I provided. It doesn’t suit your narrative, so you dismiss. And the cycle continues.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I know that it's wikipedia, but anyone explain to me the pick 23 pathway? for a pick in 2015?

Traded from Richmond; received from Gold Coast; received from Greater Western Sydney via a trade in 2012; received from Fremantle in 2011; compensation pick from 2011 (Palmer)

When GWS signed Rhys Palmer as an out of contract player in 2011, Freo received an end of first round compensation pick which could be used any year 2011-15. They immediately traded it to GWS for pick 20. In 2012 GWS traded it to GC amongst a suite of picks. In 2015 GC traded it to Richmond in a 3-way that saw Dixon go to Port. The pick was traded from Richmond to Carlton for Chris Yarra.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

This is light years from an acceptable rebuttal.

It's the perfect rebuttal. The Bullies smashed the draft and are reaping the rewards.