Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[megadeth86]

I feel sorry for the mods who actually have to read this

btw, Not even European (mostly privately owned) soccer clubs like relegation and promotion. Ever heard of the super league. that had no relegation. And the English football league was a closed league til the 1960;s IIRC. That meant you couldn't get relegated out of league 2, to use the modern language. Scotland only just introduced relegation out of its football league.

Your ideal reality of a capital paradise in European soccer (guessing here, haven't read anything they have wrote for a long time), is a fantastical as the North West Penguins v Collingwood Div 2 Grand final.

Tell Kelty Hearts FC that you support a model without pro/rel (as you just cited the case of Scottish soccer). I doubt Barry Ferguson would have been attracted to manage them in a closed-shop Lowland League closed off at the top.

 

[Tonatopia]

Three things in your favour: you are trying, you are thinking, and you refuse to let the AFL dictatorship blind you with the ideology that their way is only feasible way.

It's good to finally get some support. Thanks

 

[kranger]

Have you considered only having a three tiered divisional system with the promo/releg.

Division 1 is 12 of the existing AFL clubs, with relegation to Division 2.

Division 2 is the other 6 existing AFL clubs, plus 6 new ones (Canberra, Tasmania, Peel, Joondalup, Newcastle, Darwin). With promotion to Division 1 and relegation to Division 3.

Division 3 is each of the existing State Comps i.e. WAFL, SANFL, VFL, TFL, NTFL, QAFL, AFLNSWACT. Each state comp plays their regular season as is, but the grand final winner of each state comp goes onto playing in a knock out comp. With the winner of the knock out comp getting promoted to Division 2.

There is however an exclusion from playing in the Division 3 knock out comp, for any teams that are an AFL clubs reserves team. So the opportunity passes onto the highest ranked team that is not a reserves team.

It means there is still a Division 3, but removes a lot of the travel expenses, and doesn’t kill off the existing state comps.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Have you considered only having a three tiered divisional system with the promo/releg.

Division 1 is 12 of the existing AFL clubs, with relegation to Division 2.

Division 2 is the other 6 existing AFL clubs, plus 6 new ones (Canberra, Tasmania, Peel, Joondalup, Newcastle, Darwin). With promotion to Division 1 and relegation to Division 3.

Division 3 is each of the existing State Comps i.e. WAFL, SANFL, VFL, TFL, NTFL, QAFL, AFLNSWACT. Each state comp plays their regular season as is, but the grand final winner of each state comp goes onto playing in a knock out comp. With the winner of the knock out comp getting promoted to Division 2.

There is however an exclusion from playing in the Division 3 knock out comp, for any teams that are an AFL clubs reserves team. So the opportunity passes onto the highest ranked team that is not a reserves team.

It means there is still a Division 3, but removes a lot of the travel expenses, and doesn’t kill off the existing state comps.

So if Canberra is relegated from Div 2 and Subiaco promoted, does Canberra play in the WAFL?

 

[Dave]

Come on, everybody knows the limited number of teams who were successful in the 70s and early 80s was very much due to the inequities of the zone system.

Not to mention the short lived 10 year rule.

 

[Dave]

Zones and Drafts are antiquated systems. In this day and age, people should be free to choose who they want to play for.

So why use results from an era that had them as an example of what could happen under your system that doesn't have them?

 

[Tonatopia]

So why use results from an era that had them as an example of what could happen under your system that doesn't have them?

It was free market. I'm not sure how long a zoned player was forced to stay with their allocated club, but I know their were many player transfers.

During this period, Hawthorn & NMFC had considerable success, even though they were poorer club's. How did they hang on to their players in a free market?

 

[kranger]

So if Canberra is relegated from Div 2 and Subiaco promoted, does Canberra play in the WAFL?

Nah, they would go to their relevant State Comp, so that could be the VFL (which probably should be called East Coast FL), or they could go to (AFL Canberra).

 

[Dave]

It was free market. I'm not sure how long a zoned player was forced to stay with their allocated club, but I know their were many player transfers.

During this period, Hawthorn & NMFC had considerable success, even though they were poorer club's. How did they hang on to their players in a free market?

It wasn't a free market. Players were zoned and couldn't just go to whomever was paying the most. They hung to their players by refusing to transfer them.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It was free market. I'm not sure how long a zoned player was forced to stay with their allocated club, but I know their were many player transfers.

During this period, Hawthorn & NMFC had considerable success, even though they were poorer club's. How did they hang on to their players in a free market?

Can't speak for Hawthorn but North weren't poor at the time.

 

[Tonatopia]

Nah, they would go to their relevant State Comp, so that could be the VFL (which probably should be called East Coast FL), or they could go to (AFL Canberra).

Why complicate it?
Keep it pure, and keep local leagues intact.
You are trying to engineer a system, instead of letting the free market and consensus goverance dictate proceedings.

Your proposing a different rub on the current AFL manipulated system. Stop trying to control and engineer the game. Let it be free!

 

[Tonatopia]

It wasn't a free market. Players were zoned and couldn't just go to whomever was paying the most. They hung to their players by refusing to transfer them.

Were there transfer fees?
How did Barry Round and Kelvin Templeton get poached from the Dogs?

 

[Tonatopia]

Can't speak for Hawthorn but North weren't poor at the time.

Interesting.
So why were they financially strong when there was no salary cap, in contrast to now, when they require Tasmanian assistance?

 

[kranger]

Why complicate it?
Keep it pure, and keep local leagues intact.
You are trying to engineer a system, instead of letting the free market and consensus goverance dictate proceedings.

Your proposing a different rub on the current AFL manipulated system. Stop trying to control and engineer the game. Let it be free!

Umm….

You do realise that your proposal is also ‘trying to control and engineer the game’, by setting up a system that you perceive as being idealistic, instead of allowing it to continue in the manner that it has organically grown to be now?

 

[Tonatopia]

Umm….

You do realise that your proposal is also ‘trying to control and engineer the game’, by setting up a system that you perceive as being idealistic, instead of allowing it to continue in the manner that it has organically grown to be now?

Absolutely not.
I'm allowing any team who wishes to participate, to enter the league, at a level that can sustain them.

If there was a more pure model, then please let me know.

 

[kranger]

Absolutely not.
I'm allowing any team who wishes to participate, to enter the league, at a level that can sustain them.

If there was a more pure model, then please let me know.

So what happens, if no teams nominate to join the lower levels of the national league?

Would you accept that, or continue to push for what you think should be the set up?

 

[Tonatopia]

So what happens, if no teams nominate to join the lower levels of the national league?

Would you accept that, or continue to push for what you think should be the set up?

If the league only has 2 divisions, so be it.

I'm not foolish enough to try and regulate or control the free market.

 

[kranger]

If the league only has 2 divisions, so be it.

I'm not foolish enough to try and regulate or control the free market. It never lasts.

Ah good to read. Sometimes it just seems you are welded to the proposal having 4 divisions and no other scenario is acceptable.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Interesting.
So why were they financially strong when there was no salary cap, in contrast to now, when they require Tasmanian assistance?

It's all relative. At a time when clubs were amateur-ish and not interested in finances beyond keeping the clubs feasible, North actively sought cash generation to exploit the 10 year rule and get Barrassi on board.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

If the league only has 2 divisions, so be it.

I'm not foolish enough to try and regulate or control the free market. It never lasts.

What if the free market dictates a single division with 18-20 teams?

 

[Gigantor]

What if the free market dictates a single division with 18-20 teams?

In terms of generating super-profits, a cartel trumps the free market every single time.

 

[Blackas87]

Good post and both those clubs you mention - Hellas and Croatia - should have a chance to play in the A-League if they are good enough (same applies for Hume City and other fast-risers).

They were the pioneers of soccer in this country and should have a chance over new clubs Western United. Think there is talk over promotion/relegation for the A league, will be interesting to see if it eventuates

 

[Rob]

Have you considered only having a three tiered divisional system with the promo/releg.

Division 1 is 12 of the existing AFL clubs, with relegation to Division 2.

Division 2 is the other 6 existing AFL clubs, plus 6 new ones (Canberra, Tasmania, Peel, Joondalup, Newcastle, Darwin). With promotion to Division 1 and relegation to Division 3.

Division 3 is each of the existing State Comps i.e. WAFL, SANFL, VFL, TFL, NTFL, QAFL, AFLNSWACT. Each state comp plays their regular season as is, but the grand final winner of each state comp goes onto playing in a knock out comp. With the winner of the knock out comp getting promoted to Division 2.

There is however an exclusion from playing in the Division 3 knock out comp, for any teams that are an AFL clubs reserves team. So the opportunity passes onto the highest ranked team that is not a reserves team.

It means there is still a Division 3, but removes a lot of the travel expenses, and doesn’t kill off the existing state comps.

He won't like that, because he thinks Division 3 will pull in tens of millions in TV rights money and draw crowds of 10k+ a game, therefore any travel expenses are easily covered. As well as the millions per club in salary expenses.

 

[Walshawk]

British rugby league and I believe union.

Not the top level.

 

[Tonatopia]

In terms of generating super-profits, a cartel trumps the free market every single time.

Ok, but how do you think a cartel will get involved?

Maybe CBUS superannuation buys into the Brisbane Lions?
MCC regains control of the MFC?
Fortescue Metals Group funds Alice Springs FC?
Clive Palmer funds a Cairns team?

If so, then that would be massive. Bring it on!!!