Autopsy Rd 14 Loss: Here comes another one, just like the other one

Who played well for the Blues vs the Giants (Blues supporters only)


  • Total voters
    169
  • Poll closed .

BeijingBlue

All Australian
Jun 12, 2013
781
1,490
Gippsland
AFL Club
Carlton
I get what you’re saying but when Toby Green can kick goals from 70 and SOS misses from 35 I think he hasn’t worked hard enough and is an entitled grifter
In lockdown I told my son he’d get a Nintendo game if he could put 10 kicks on my chest he was a crap kick he got his game
Then 50 kicks to get a new bike he hasn’t got it yet but he’s improving
I trained 7 days a week 3 times a day in non professional sport
Fevola was out on the weekends kicking for goal
Harry worked on his running in the off season
A couple of jobs I’ve worked at on Saturdays had locals games opposite I was surprised by the level of football I was very surprised by the level of football there where numerous footballers better than SOS
If you can’t kick you can’t football that’s how the game is now SOS can’t kick Doc can’t kick they can’t football that’s how I see the game
The reason I see him as an entitled delusional grifter is that I haven’t heard of him kicking 800 kicks on goal in his holidays and improving
If my 8 year old can improve with 300-400 then SOS is either stupid to not do this or a lazy grifter
I bet SOS hasn’t hired someone to retrieve balls and kicked 800 kicks on goals in his holidays so he is loser and can fu$ k off
Let’s get some one hungry in
From his very first game, I have not been impressed with JSOS. Too slow and poor skills. Just not up to standard. Evidence is damning. I agree, does not work hard enough at the skills. If he did, he would be better than he is now.
 
Have to say I find the perception of Docherty here interesting.

Has been diabolically bad for the past 3 weeks (Swans, Eagles, Giants) yet I would argue he was in our best for the 3 games immediately before that - in our best 3 against Dogs and Dees IMO, and in the best 5 against the Hawks. His form earlier in the season prior to that game was actually pretty solid - he copped it on here for a couple of glaring errors against Port yet in the immediate weeks after that all the talk was about how Doc was "looking like his old self". Month is a long time in footy.

He's playing a role not particularly familiar to him because our footy club thought it prudent to spend upwards of $1.4m a year on 2 half back flankers - one who absolutely cops it on here (Williams) and the other who seems to be exempt (Saad). I really don't see it with Saad truth be told - doesn't really defend (admittedly defends better than Williams or Docherty but * that's not saying much is it) and offensively I think what he adds is hugely overrated - part of that is our system being terrible but running fast to his left and then kicking long to a contest isn't a particularly efficient way of going forward. This isn't even mentioning Newman who would also rather have the ball in his hands than defend.

I'm not defending Doc's last month of footy (he's been shithouse and a poor leader on top of that) but our team is woefully imbalanced and I think his performances are suffering for it. He's been an AA and a B&F winner playing off half back - his best form this year was when he ******* played there and we didn't try and shoehorn 3 other half back flankers and a midfielder into our back 6.

Someone else mentioned him being fumbly late in games and I've also noticed this with him - particularly also looks gassed late in quarters/games which is why some of his more memorable gaffes being in last quarters. Food for thought for the fitness guru because he's not the only one flagging in red time...
 

azlou

Club Legend
Mar 31, 2010
2,273
5,496
hampton
AFL Club
Carlton
Interesting you say that. He'll bring discipline straight off the bat. I remember an interview when he got to freo, he said only 6 players passed skinfold and ran the time trial in a time comparable to the previous year.
He couldn't believe the lack of standards. He also mentioned subtle things like coach and captains carpark, he got rid of that as a demonstration we're all equal in the pursuit.
Defense strategy and discipline is not existant.

Today I saw JSOS shake his head at a pass over his head from his co captain, on camera. That tells me where things are at.
first 2 minutes, cripps was defending players , pulling off oppos on his mates, which lasted 5 minutes.
Theres no mental stamina
Jsos entitled woos shakes he head disrespectfully to his captain and sh@ts himself 5 meters out and try’s to handball any AFL player snaps a goal from there guaranteed we delist him he doesn’t get picked up he’s a hack desperate scrapper with no pace
 

BlueBayou

Premiership Player
Apr 28, 2016
3,609
7,791
AFL Club
Carlton
Yeh it’s a weird one. I swore I didn’t want Lyon but he’s one who makes a bit of sense. Need a taskmaster coach who is desperate for success and is going to get the best out of the list we’ve put together.

He was strangely complimentary about our squad earlier in the year. Reckon he’s been angling.
I'm not sure Lyon is the correct fit. Worried he might be another Malthouse.

I'm not sure who is available, what their credentials are, what the requirements would be. (other than turning around a huge bohemoth of a club in quick time) What the KPI's would be etc...

But, something needs to change. Unconditional effort, collective effort, adherence to game plan, no room for individuals. One in, all in.

A touch of on field mongrel wouldn't hurt either. I'm hacked off at seeing us get pushed around by plastic football clubs all the time.
 
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17SetMeFree

Club Legend
Nov 2, 2020
1,072
2,026
AFL Club
Carlton
Jsos entitled woos shakes he head disrespectfully to his captain and sh@ts himself 5 meters out and try’s to handball any AFL player snaps a goal from there guaranteed we delist him he doesn’t get picked up he’s a hack desperate scrapper with no pace
I disagree that he's a hack, but I tell you, he's an easy to read barometer, as he doesn't have a poker face.
I'll tell you a story about JSOS.
We lost a game at the G by a kick after the siren that wells slotted, the player we were supposed to draft (sanctions)
walking out of the ground, SOS had JSOS over his shoulder balling his eyes out like his brother just died.

Unlike some players that don't give a fk, he bleeds blue, and will never get moved. My point is, all is not well internally, his body language screams it.
 

17SetMeFree

Club Legend
Nov 2, 2020
1,072
2,026
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm not sure Lyon is the correct fit. Worried he might be another Malthouse.

I'm not sure who is available, what their credentials are, what the requirements would be. (other than turning around a huge bohemoth of a club in quick time) What the KPI's would be etc...

But, something needs to change. Unconditional effort, collective effort, adherance to game plan, no room for individuals. Onein, all in.

A touch of on field mongrel wouldn't hurt either. I'm hacked off at seeing us get pushed around by plastic football clubs all the time.
Thats exactly who lyon is
 

azlou

Club Legend
Mar 31, 2010
2,273
5,496
hampton
AFL Club
Carlton
I disagree that he's a hack, but I tell you, he's an easy to read barometer, as he doesn't have a poker face.
I'll tell you a story about JSOS.
We lost a game at the G by a kick after the siren that wells slotted, the player we were supposed to draft (sanctions)
walking out of the ground, SOS had JSOS over his shoulder balling his eyes out like his brother just died.

Unlike some players that don't give a fk, he bleeds blue, and will never get moved. My point is, all is not well internally, his body language screams it.
He isn’t best 22 for us his kicking and over all skills wouldn’t be for any team glad he bleeds blue but it isn’t enough
McGovern or Charlie play he’s depth till we can recruit better depth
 
Jul 7, 2018
1,487
5,355
AFL Club
Carlton
Thats exactly who lyon is

I’ll say with confidence that the St Kilda team that Ross took to the grand final is the most organised and disciplined team I’ve ever seen. He had a few stars and a whole bunch of C graders and took them within a lucky bounce of a premiership.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

Jamie007

Club Legend
Oct 14, 2007
2,176
1,551
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I don’t want to see anyone calling for Plowman to be out of the best 22 again. If the last few weeks haven’t proven how important he is to our team currently then I’ll give up watching footy.



The 3 matchups he would have had if he played….



v Swans…. Heeney 3.1 22 touches BOG

v Eagles…. Ryan 4.0 17 touches. The difference in the end

v Giants…Greene 4.2 20 touches. Arguably BOG



Stocker has been absolutely thrown to the wolves the last few weeks. He isn’t a small lockdown defender and the glimpses he gets up the ground prove that. Can’t wait to get another preseason into him and have him throw his weight and aggression around in the guts
Except that Newman was on Greene for all but 1 goal.
 

btdg

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 7, 2005
5,579
9,434
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
Have to say I find the perception of Docherty here interesting.

Has been diabolically bad for the past 3 weeks (Swans, Eagles, Giants) yet I would argue he was in our best for the 3 games immediately before that - in our best 3 against Dogs and Dees IMO, and in the best 5 against the Hawks. His form earlier in the season prior to that game was actually pretty solid - he copped it on here for a couple of glaring errors against Port yet in the immediate weeks after that all the talk was about how Doc was "looking like his old self". Month is a long time in footy.

He's playing a role not particularly familiar to him because our footy club thought it prudent to spend upwards of $1.4m a year on 2 half back flankers - one who absolutely cops it on here (Williams) and the other who seems to be exempt (Saad). I really don't see it with Saad truth be told - doesn't really defend (admittedly defends better than Williams or Docherty but fu** that's not saying much is it) and offensively I think what he adds is hugely overrated - part of that is our system being terrible but running fast to his left and then kicking long to a contest isn't a particularly efficient way of going forward. This isn't even mentioning Newman who would also rather have the ball in his hands than defend.

I'm not defending Doc's last month of footy (he's been shithouse and a poor leader on top of that) but our team is woefully imbalanced and I think his performances are suffering for it. He's been an AA and a B&F winner playing off half back - his best form this year was when he ******* played there and we didn't try and shoehorn 3 other half back flankers and a midfielder into our back 6.

Someone else mentioned him being fumbly late in games and I've also noticed this with him - particularly also looks gassed late in quarters/games which is why some of his more memorable gaffes being in last quarters. Food for thought for the fitness guru because he's not the only one flagging in red time...

Bollocks. He's the captain and he sets the tone. And the tone he is setting is that of a Seagull chasing a chip at the beach.

If nothing else, after the putrid efforts the previous few weeks, get out there and lay a tackle. Lay a shepherd. Defend like your life depends on it. Instead: 14 GWS players laid more tackles than Docherty. 17 GWS players had more pressure acts. He fumbled at key moments, took cheap and safe options with his disposal. Did absolutely nothing to justify the captain role at our lowest ebb since he was appointed.

But hey - let's make one of the young blokes the scapegoat. Maybe Kennedy can have 3 weeks as the medical sub?
 

The Bighouse

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2009
8,136
11,467
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
thought we were in with a shot but wasn't surprised that we were never really in it. gws probably wrecked us as much as a slightly-less-poor side could.

given last years' slightly better showing you do have to question the fitness. the shorter quarters may have helped us stay with teams until the siren went.

think we'll see a few players in unusual positions to see if anything can be salvaged from their careers or trade value.

Fitness was not supposed to be one of our issues.
 

BlueBayou

Premiership Player
Apr 28, 2016
3,609
7,791
AFL Club
Carlton
I disagree that he's a hack, but I tell you, he's an easy to read barometer, as he doesn't have a poker face.
I'll tell you a story about JSOS.
We lost a game at the G by a kick after the siren that wells slotted, the player we were supposed to draft (sanctions)
walking out of the ground, SOS had JSOS over his shoulder balling his eyes out like his brother just died.

Unlike some players that don't give a fk, he bleeds blue, and will never get moved. My point is, all is not well internally, his body language screams it.
absofcknlutely correct
 

dragonsblues

Club Legend
Jun 23, 2013
1,367
3,057
AFL Club
Carlton
Interesting you say that. He'll bring discipline straight off the bat. I remember an interview when he got to freo, he said only 6 players passed skinfold and ran the time trial in a time comparable to the previous year.
He couldn't believe the lack of standards. He also mentioned subtle things like coach and captains carpark, he got rid of that as a demonstration we're all equal in the pursuit.
Defense strategy and discipline is not existant.

Today I saw JSOS shake his head at a pass over his head from his co captain, on camera. That tells me where things are at.
first 2 minutes, cripps was defending players , pulling off oppos on his mates, which lasted 5 minutes.
Theres no mental stamina
The first part is exactly the same argument for why we rolled Ratten. Poor fitness, defensively impotent, needed to improve standards with an experienced coach.

All of that is the vibe. You mention the all equal stuff, but you haven’t mentioned the fact many people said he had favourites and didn’t speak to some players or give time evenly in his past gigs.

I’m not happy with where we are and I’m sure changed of some sort need to be done. Maybe Ross is that. But our team is filled with attacking players, without another rebuilt or Ross completely changing his game style (unknown, been out of the game and his attacking foray was a disaster in his last year) / I don’t see how it works and no one is making the argument.

We’d need to do a mini rebuild, most of the players we’d be churning have little to no value.

We’ve also tried this path again or quick fixes and experienced coaches. Think a lot of Carlton fans are right to be very wary of this again.
 

BlueBayou

Premiership Player
Apr 28, 2016
3,609
7,791
AFL Club
Carlton
He isn’t best 22 for us his kicking and over all skills wouldn’t be for any team glad he bleeds blue but it isn’t enough
McGovern or Charlie play he’s depth till we can recruit better depth
McGlovin???? Gimme a break. Soft, conditional and exactly NOT what we need. He has a few highly paid mates who can pull their fingers out or eff off as well.
 
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Bollocks. He's the captain and he sets the tone. And the tone he is setting is that of a Seagull chasing a chip at the beach.

If nothing else, after the putrid efforts the previous few weeks, get out there and lay a tackle. Lay a shepherd. Defend like your life depends on it. Instead: 14 GWS players laid more tackles than Docherty. 17 GWS players had more pressure acts. He fumbled at key moments, took cheap and safe options with his disposal. Did absolutely nothing to justify the captain role at our lowest ebb since he was appointed.

But hey - let's make one of the young blokes the scapegoat. Maybe Kennedy can have 3 weeks as the medical sub?
None of this addresses anything I said - I don’t really know why you bothered quoting me.

I literally said he’s been shite and a poor leader for the last few weeks. That didn’t change tonight. Our tackle pressure as a whole side, not just Docherty was woeful tonight and tbh has been all year. My post was more about the idea that Docherty himself has been terrible the whole season when, to me, it’s only the last 3 weeks that have stood out. He’s not alone, and I agree that as the captain he should be setting a better example. So should his co-captain but that’s another story.

And then about making a young bloke a scapegoat - where did I say anything about that? I spoke about our team being imbalanced and my post explicitly mentioned 4 senior players. I don’t think the kids are the problem.

I get we’re all pissed off (and rightfully so) but I’m just raising a point of view for discussion. I don’t care if people disagree - that’s what a bloody forum is for.
 
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