Autopsy Rd 14 Loss: Here comes another one, just like the other one

Who played well for the Blues vs the Giants (Blues supporters only)


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Nov 14, 2020
1,166
1,496
AFL Club
Carlton
Well, what do you say about that? When Toby Greene kicked that bomb from 70 odd metres it sealed the deal for me. The lack of leadership on field is staggering and some of the players have zero clue and/or confidence. I'm really not sure where it all stems from but i watched a good chunk of the game with a buddy of mine who's actually a crows supporters and even he was wondering what the hell we were doing out there. Even some of weetos decisions early on when the ball was coming into the D50 just seemed odd. Across the board our confidence is just shot to bits. Players like Jack martin and newman amongst others have lost their mojo and zing completely. It's just gone gone gone. It's like we're scared to win and everything seems so reactive. Whenever a player does try something, show a bit of creativity/flair, they hit a brick wall. turnover etc.

What's happened.? I watched the blues beat the crows in july 2019 at the MCG. That day we just played with so much zip and confidence and our skills were just a cut above. Cripps was running around owning the place and some of our ball movement was slick, sharp and pretty to watch. "here we go", I thought.

How can we be here? It's becoming laughable. ANd as I sat there saturday night I could see my Crow mate cracking a cheeky grin.
They are going to put us to the sword on the weekend. You thought the giants loss was bad?

Strap in kids.
A mid-season review will do that to you and this is exactly why you do not do it mid season. It has completely derailed the club and everyone is now survival mode, and it is exactly how they are playing. They are only worried about their own performance. Again just because you are a good businessman, does not mean you know anything about footy. Sayers thinks he is still back at PWC doing a shake up. Footy clubs are different beasts, and one day we will get some leadership that understands this.
 
Aug 18, 2006
38,708
48,563
Melbourne
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Carlton
Well, what do you say about that? When Toby Greene kicked that bomb from 70 odd metres it sealed the deal for me. The lack of leadership on field is staggering and some of the players have zero clue and/or confidence. I'm really not sure where it all stems from but i watched a good chunk of the game with a buddy of mine who's actually a crows supporters and even he was wondering what the hell we were doing out there. Even some of weetos decisions early on when the ball was coming into the D50 just seemed odd. Across the board our confidence is just shot to bits. Players like Jack martin and newman amongst others have lost their mojo and zing completely. It's just gone gone gone. It's like we're scared to win and everything seems so reactive. Whenever a player does try something, show a bit of creativity/flair, they hit a brick wall. turnover etc.

What's happened.? I watched the blues beat the crows in july 2019 at the MCG. That day we just played with so much zip and confidence and our skills were just a cut above. Cripps was running around owning the place and some of our ball movement was slick, sharp and pretty to watch. "here we go", I thought.

How can we be here? It's becoming laughable. ANd as I sat there saturday night I could see my Crow mate cracking a cheeky grin.
They are going to put us to the sword on the weekend. You thought the giants loss was bad?

Strap in kids.

That Adelaide game is a great example - i went away from the same game thinking - yep, we are on the right path, kids are playing well (setterfield was just about best on that day), imagine us in a couple of years. Fast forward a couple of years and its deplorable how we have gone backwards, not even plateaued. You compare it to the side now, and apart from Walsh, Weitering and McKay - no-one has played well consistently at all, not even close.
 

sosos

Premiership Player
Apr 5, 2007
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A mid-season review will do that to you and this is exactly why you do not do it mid season. It has completely derailed the club and everyone is now survival mode, and it is exactly how they are playing. They are only worried about their own performance. Again just because you are a good businessman, does not mean you know anything about footy. Sayers thinks he is still back at PWC doing a shake up. Footy clubs are different beasts, and one day we will get some leadership that understands this.
I get what you say, but I would prefer to rip off the bandaid rather than prolong the torture.
 

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koutaaa

Cancelled
Jul 2, 2020
725
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A mid-season review will do that to you and this is exactly why you do not do it mid season. It has completely derailed the club and everyone is now survival mode, and it is exactly how they are playing. They are only worried about their own performance. Again just because you are a good businessman, does not mean you know anything about footy. Sayers thinks he is still back at PWC doing a shake up. Footy clubs are different beasts, and one day we will get some leadership that understands this.

Surely you can’t believe that this is the result of having a mid season review?
The review started because of the exact issues we saw on Saturday night
 

Funk

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 6, 2015
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Yep. Feels like we’re driving with the handbrake on.

I feel like writing to the club and saying:

“I’m taking the rest of the year off from supporting you lot.

When the players start getting serious about playing winning football (yes - that includes occasionally laying a tackle) not not just “playing our way” - let me know and I’ll start watching/supporting again.”
 

Blue since 72

Premiership Player
Feb 13, 2009
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GWS are like that. When they're cruising, it looks effortless. GWS are a team you judge on their effort rather than their dominance, because the level of talent you have in that team ensures that when the effort is there they're just going to be unstoppable.

But - and I'm still really rather pissed off - I don't really give a fu** how they were. What was our excuse for not being ready to prove a point?

I cannot decide if I just wholly full on agree, or if I agree in part.

You don't suddenly expect a team to just up and play a different way, unless the plan to do so is simply 'take first option', 'play on instinct', 'play on always'; the simpler it is, the easier it is to transition to it. What we were trying was an incorporation of a Bolton-esque deep press into a Teague gameplan (think, his press in 2017 that held its position deeper rather than what he was doing in 2018-19 which had a close press at the ball carrier to shut down short options and drive them wide) but the players that weren't there for Bolton - who have no way of learning or knowing how to play that press - kept ******* it up.

See, I don't like the notion that players don't try. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would you actively walk out there, you're getting paid and not a small amount, and not do what you're told to do? Even if you don't do what your coach says, why wouldn't you just play the game your way and have a bit of fun?

Going out there and not giving it their all isn't something that happens all that often at AFL level. You're going to see it maybe once every 5 seasons. You're going to see players ignoring or forgetting coaching instructions far more often, and that's why it's a bit of a struggle as to whether I agree in part or in whole.

Because today, I saw players who weren't trying, and who were struggling to adapt to something they didn't agree with.

Re the bolded bit;

This is concerning and would suggest that the players have given up on the game plan and by extension possibly Teague as well.

My hope would be that the co-captains at the very least would be having very direct conversations with the coach about game style and that the coach would be listening, so if we’re at a stage where the players are not even trying to execute then there’s been a disturbing disconnect between the players and the coach.

If that is the case then the review should find that and Teague will either be given an opportunity to correct or be gone.

I actually think we substantially have the cattle to achieve but the between the ears piece is just not there.

This would be my main focus of the review in terms of the players.
 
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CordonFnBleu

Fowl connoisseur
Jun 8, 2021
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"Everyone is disappointed because everyone has tried 100 per cent every week to get a result," Cripps said.

Just now from Cripps interview.

All this tells me is that the playing group are as delusional as the HC if our Capt. truly believes this, and it appears he does believe this or he wouldn't say so in a public interview.

We are in more trouble than I thought.
As I said in another thread, I believe Teague will depart sometime next month, 'in the interests of the team', but he won't be sacked as the club don't want that again.
 
Aug 18, 2006
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"Everyone is disappointed because everyone has tried 100 per cent every week to get a result," Cripps said.

Just now from Cripps interview.

All this tells me is that the playing group are as delusional as the HC if our Capt. truly believes this, and it appears he does believe this or he wouldn't say so in a public interview.

We are in more trouble than I thought.

Its going to get torn to shreds by the media - and fair enough as well
 
May 1, 2016
28,404
55,370
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Carlton
Re the bolded bit;

This is concerning and would suggest that the players have given up on the game plan and by extension possibly Teague as well.

My hope would be that the co-captains at the very least would be having very direct conversations with the coach about game style and that the coach would be listening, so if we’re at a stage where the players are not even trying to execute then there’s been a disturbing disconnect between the players and the coach.

If that is the case then the review should find that and Teague will either be given an opportunity to correct or be gone.

I actually think we substantially have the cattle to achieve but the between the ears piece is just not there.

This would be my main focus of the review in terms of the players.
My desire, and one of the focus points for the review, is to determine to what degree does the tail wag the dog at Carlton.

Because it's all very well to have a talented group that like each other and want to play well and succeed together, but it's completely another to continuously undermine successive coaches via onfield performances.
 

Blue since 72

Premiership Player
Feb 13, 2009
4,748
3,053
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My desire, and one of the focus points for the review, is to determine to what degree does the tail wag the dog at Carlton.

Because it's all very well to have a talented group that like each other and want to play well and succeed together, but it's completely another to continuously undermine successive coaches via onfield performances.

For sure hence my between the ears comment. Is there any mongrel out there because talking about being successful is real easy.

Heard MacDonald from the Dees talk the other week about realising if he didn’t go when it was his turn, (even if he was exhausted or didn’t want to) no one else would.

Obvious but telling in terms of his turnaround on field.
 
My desire, and one of the focus points for the review, is to determine to what degree does the tail wag the dog at Carlton.

Because it's all very well to have a talented group that like each other and want to play well and succeed together, but it's completely another to continuously undermine successive coaches via onfield performances.

One of the things that I like about numbers as oppossed to words is that there is no wiggle room with numbers - they either add up or they dont.

This Club has pizzed serious money up against the wall on Martin/McGovern/Saad and Williams - having enough left over for a contract year Harry to pull his digit out and a contract year Cripps to take his time deciding on whatever the tiny details are he and his manager are fussing about.

Make no mistake - we have undone a lot of balance sheet positioning that SOS put in place to attract developed A graders - sans the on field pay-off. We are watching martin play strapped up like a reincarnated mummy straight out of an Egyptian sarcophagus absolutely useless, McGovern nursing a hamstring strain for another half a season of missing in action , Williams overweight unfit and hidden on an unaccountable HBF, Cripps telling everyone who 'thte players' want as coach ( again) and Harry settling for a measly 800K for a couple of years - giving every Club in the land plenty of time to plan in due course when he is FA.

The numbers say - big dollars OUT and absolute excrement peformance IN.

FAIL.
 

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May 1, 2016
28,404
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AFL Club
Carlton
One of the things that I like about numbers as oppossed to words is that there is no wiggle room with numbers - they either add up or they dont.

This Club has pizzed serious money up against the wall on Martin/McGovern/Saad and Williams - having enough left over for a contract year Harry to pull his digit out and a contract year Cripps to take his time deciding on whatever the tiny details are he and his manager are fussing about.

Make no mistake - we have undone a lot of balance sheet positioning that SOS put in place to attract developed A graders - sans the on field pay-off. We are watching martin play strapped up like a reincarnated mummy straight out of an Egyptian sarcophagus absolutely useless, McGovern nursing a hamstring strain for another half a season of missing in action , Williams overweight unfit and hidden on an unaccountable HBF, Cripps telling everyone who 'thte players' want as coach ( again) and Harry settling for a measly 800K for a couple of years - giving every Club in the land plenty of time to plan in due course when he is FA.

The numbers say - big dollars OUT and absolute excrement peformance IN.

FAIL.
About the only silver lining is that it sets a timeline to get things right: two years.

If we're not right in two years, then Harry's gone. The club, list management, coaching, all of it have until then to sort themselves out. And, given our list demographic means that turning it around in that timeframe is possible.
 
About the only silver lining is that it sets a timeline to get things right: two years.

If we're not right in two years, then Harry's gone. The club, list management, coaching, all of it have until then to sort themselves out. And, given our list demographic means that turning it around in that timeframe is possible.

Yep - 2 years is a lot of time.
 
Jun 21, 2021
1
1
AFL Club
Carlton
Our star recruits are complete busts, we now have a habit of paying A-list dollars for B-list talent. I hate them all right now for the apathy they bring. McGovern should go end of this season.

One positive from the match was Kennedy. Hopefully they keep him in the side and he shows more of that intensity. Dow showed a bit in the second half too, after another pathetic first half.

I'm starting to wonder if Cripps continually trying to crash through packs is doing more harm to our midfield balance than good.
 
Aug 18, 2006
38,708
48,563
Melbourne
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Our star recruits are complete busts, we now have a habit of paying A-list dollars for B-list talent. I hate them all right now for the apathy they bring. McGovern should go end of this season.

One positive from the match was Kennedy. Hopefully they keep him in the side and he shows more of that intensity. Dow showed a bit in the second half too, after another pathetic first half.

I'm starting to wonder if Cripps continually trying to crash through packs is doing more harm to our midfield balance than good.
Kennedy does do this sometimes. Plays a good game first up and then drops off the cliff the next few games. Be interesting to see what happens the next couple of games.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

BigBreakfast

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Sep 19, 2019
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I'm just so frustrated, like many others. It seems that we are close to started again, albeit with better talent than 6 years ago. I've read lots of opinions, agreed with most, laughed at some. Largely I feel the pain that others share of 20 years of pain with the light at the end of the tunnel fading into an abyss.

We seem bereft of hope, energy and enthusiasm which essentially means, throw the magnets where you like. There isn't a structure or gameplay to support any growth in these areas anyway. Effort without purpose is misguided and promotes a hero ball culture. Case in point, Cripps 2020 and 2021 seasons.

Listening intently for the outcomes of a review. I'm guessing need to modernise game plan, use the soft cap to employ staff to support Russell in an effort to raise fitness, health and well-being standards, review leadership structure and selection process along with a bunch of other jargon terminology. Hopefully Pav will long up at CHF afterall.
 

Funk

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 6, 2015
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"Everyone is disappointed because everyone has tried 100 per cent every week to get a result," Cripps said.

Just now from Cripps interview.

All this tells me is that the playing group are as delusional as the HC if our Capt. truly believes this, and it appears he does believe this or he wouldn't say so in a public interview.

We are in more trouble than I thought.
As I said in another thread, I believe Teague will depart sometime next month, 'in the interests of the team', but he won't be sacked as the club don't want that again.

Sadly I think you’re probably correct.

Players can’t keep blaming the coaches forever.

Been happening for 15 years.

Take som f***ing responsibility lads.
 

Earls Smother

Club Legend
Oct 4, 2019
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For sure hence my between the ears comment. Is there any mongrel out there because talking about being successful is real easy.

Heard MacDonald from the Dees talk the other week about realising if he didn’t go when it was his turn, (even if he was exhausted or didn’t want to) no one else would.

Obvious but telling in terms of his turnaround on field.

Classic example of how much the game is played above the shoulders. He was terrible last year and a Dees' supporters whipping boy. Totally about mindset.

It's like we have about 15 of him at the moment. They can play, but they're not.

I wonder whether any review is really going to work out why. Maybe the club should just buy 50 mirrors and let the players, key staff and coaches spend an hour sorting out the *er in front of themselves.
 
May 1, 2016
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Classic example of how much the game is played above the shoulders. He was terrible last year and a Dees' supporters whipping boy. Totally about mindset.

It's like we have about 15 of him at the moment. They can play, but they're not.

I wonder whether any review is really going to work out why. Maybe the club should just buy 50 mirrors and let the players, key staff and coaches spend an hour sorting out the f***er in front of themselves.
I am reminded of a thing I saw on the '90 Collingwood side, about how in preseason the coaches had them doing sprints during preseason in the middle of summer without water or rests. The coaches were watching, and while it was training, it was also a test; they were seeing who could go longest, and who would ask for water or respite, who would go until they collapsed. They - the coaches, the club medical staff - talked about it'd never get clearance now, because obviously not, but what it did was it showed the coaches and the list who they could rely on, and they selected on that basis throughout the season.

From the player interviews from that show, the experience didn't just meld them together, it showed them what they can do together. The entire list got further through that training than they would've individually, and it gave them something to draw on when things got tough. They knew who to go to when things were hardest, and they trusted each other to keep going.

Makes me wonder about the modern game a bit, and whether someone like Clarkson - with his barbarism - has the right idea.
 
Jun 4, 2016
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I am reminded of a thing I saw on the '90 Collingwood side, about how in preseason the coaches had them doing sprints during preseason in the middle of summer without water or rests. The coaches were watching, and while it was training, it was also a test; they were seeing who could go longest, and who would ask for water or respite, who would go until they collapsed. They - the coaches, the club medical staff - talked about it'd never get clearance now, because obviously not, but what it did was it showed the coaches and the list who they could rely on, and they selected on that basis throughout the season.
I was doing this at a club back in 2012 and 13...some still do this sort of thing.
 
Jun 4, 2016
11,929
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Makes me wonder about the modern game a bit, and whether someone like Clarkson - with his barbarism - has the right idea.
Should've had this in my last quote... Fail on website skills but... The club I played for was struggling, and had been for years and years until a hierarchy change, top to bottom, and one of the things they did was brought in kostya tszyu's boxing coach in the off season, we went to work and with essentially the exact same squads as the season before (we couldn't attract talent at the time) we went from last to first in multiple grades. The trust and exactly what you said about Collingwood was there, determination because you're 'in the trenches' with your mates. It feels crass comparing sport to war because one is a game and not as consequential but the best performers do exactly that, and train that way.

My experience coaching women's teams is completely different, however. Different ways to promote 'mateship' but it's required.

The s**t sellers says on TV, yeah he's a talking head and can't quite say what he wants to/ can't quite describe this but it's that complete trust in your mates which comes with that expectation that they'll go out and get their job done. It's missing at Carlton now. It's missing in a lot of professional sporting teams to be fair.
 
May 1, 2016
28,404
55,370
AFL Club
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Should've had this in my last quote... Fail on website skills but... The club I played for was struggling, and had been for years and years until a hierarchy change, top to bottom, and one of the things they did was brought in kostya tszyu's boxing coach in the off season, we went to work and with essentially the exact same squads as the season before (we couldn't attract talent at the time) we went from last to first in multiple grades. The trust and exactly what you said about Collingwood was there, determination because you're 'in the trenches' with your mates. It feels crass comparing sport to war because one is a game and not as consequential but the best performers do exactly that, and train that way.

My experience coaching women's teams is completely different, however. Different ways to promote 'mateship' but it's required.

The sh*t sellers says on TV, yeah he's a talking head and can't quite say what he wants to/ can't quite describe this but it's that complete trust in your mates which comes with that expectation that they'll go out and get their job done. It's missing at Carlton now. It's missing in a lot of professional sporting teams to be fair.
I can't remember who I was talking about this with on here - and it was a while ago, to be fair - but we were talking about the difference between a sport like basketball, in which one player can completely elevate a side, to cricket, where one is not enough but two absolutely can be, to football where you're getting into needing the bottom 6 from 18 to contribute.

It really could just be that AFL is unique in its requirements as far as teamwork and player contribution goes. We need more buy in, better across the board skills, and greater trust between players than other sports do.
 
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