List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[skam85]

I’m not but it’s good to ask the question as GC would trade pick 3. Keays has been very good for us but in a midfielders draft, I think we need another top pick

So to get another pick in a midfielders draft you're suggesting we need to trade our best-performing 24yr old midfielder......

 

[skam85]

If people propose trades, you should at least try to understand them.

You look to trade Keays because we will have a midfield glut with the return of Matt Crouch, and Keays has obvious disposal issues that stop him ever maximising his talent.

Crouch is the better player, but a contracted Keays could possibly get you the GCS 2nd round priority pick.

A midfield glut? What?

Laird, yes a star.
Sloane. Old.
Crouch, coming off a year off, and still could leave as a FA.
And then underneath them a bunch of kids yet to reach 50 games.

We have the least talented and depth in the midfield in almost the entire league and you're still advocating trading a 24yr old with scope for improvement.

You overrate our list something chronic.

 

[skam85]

So - contracted players don't get traded?

Crouch is part of our leadership group and was handpicked to present the guernsey to our number one pick on his draft night. He's the one that you approve people discussing leaving?

Stop being an uptight prick. People can discuss whatever they want, especially if they can make a case for it. You're not the internet police.

Crouch is a FA and his brother just left under identical circumstances.
The likelihood of Crouch leaving exceeds Keays leaving by an incredible amount.

Vader says some oddball things but disagreeing with your Playstation trades isn't being the internet police. FFS he even posted a paragraph explaining it.

 

[skam85]

except he is sh*t in front of goals. and he‘s got no mongrel at all. and he’s nowhere near worth pick 3... barely worth pick 40...

I’d say weideman is more like Melbournes version of Elliot Himmelberg..

And by comparison, Ben Brown (older but far better) was traded for picks 26, 33 and a future 4th with Brown, pick 28 and a future 4th rounder coming back.

So effectively a late second round pick...

 

[Golumless]

If people propose trades, you should at least try to understand them.

You look to trade Keays because we will have a midfield glut with the return of Matt Crouch, and Keays has obvious disposal issues that stop him ever maximising his talent.

Crouch is the better player, but a contracted Keays could possibly get you the GCS 2nd round priority pick.

With Keays you've got a player who can get out of the way and hold on to a place in our best 22 when Berry, Pedlar, Schoenberg and friends take over. You do not have that with Crouch. One of the goal of this rebuild from herein is for them to take over. Effectively keeping Crouch at his juncture would either result in a bad contract 2-3 years down the line as its preventing that transition, or we've imploded again and it was irrelevant.

That's before factoring that by forcing Keays out, we've scuttled any value we could have extracted from him.

If we're gunning for a deep finals run, you retain Matt. You don't in a rebuild when you've got his ball winning skills covered.

 

[Jirkago75]

So to get another pick in a midfielders draft you're suggesting we need to trade our best-performing 24yr old midfielder......

No, bit find out what they would want for pick 3, ask the question.
Keays has been good for us but he will never be elite

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Don't need a 22 full of elite players. Need a 22 of players who are all capable of winning their position more often than not.

 

[Vader]

Agree with most of what you said except I think you’re underselling Keays a bit. I agree he’s best in a good team as the 4th or 5th best mid (Redden for WC role), but flat out calling him B grade seems slightly harsh

He's an extremely hard worker... but his disposal is so bad that B-grade is as high as I can give him.

 

[1970crow]

Post clearance pressure is as much on our kids then experienced guys, seeing that would be ground wide.

Clearance pressure would be on our senior guys seeing how reluctant we have been to get kids into our midfield set up.

Not really. If there's no pressure at the lost clearance then everyone is playing catch-up. Once you allow opponents to be running free under no pressure then you're in a world of pain. This has been an issue for ages. Post clearance is unlikely to be total ground pressure but rather what happens immediately after the clearance. And that's 100% the issue of the experienced group we deploy to stoppages and/or our coached setups.

 

[Vader]

So - contracted players don't get traded?

Crouch is part of our leadership group and was handpicked to present the guernsey to our number one pick on his draft night. He's the one that you approve people discussing leaving?

Stop being an uptight prick. People can discuss whatever they want, especially if they can make a case for it. You're not the internet police.

You can discuss it... it's just that such talk is pure fantasy, with no chance whatsoever of becoming a reality. I prefer to discuss things which may actually come to pass in the future.

I think Crouch could leave because his brother has already gone back to Melbourne, and Adelaide has reportedly only offered him a 2-year contract (when I think he would be looking for longer). He's a FA, and I don't see him having the long term club loyalty that I see in Talia & Walker.

Contracted players are rarely traded unless they are the instigators of the trade. There is no reason at all to think that Keays wants out, and there's no chance whatsoever of the club threatening him with SANFL time if he doesn't go. There is no reason whatsoever to think that he won't be on our list in 2022.

 

[GreyCrow]

If people propose trades, you should at least try to understand them.

You look to trade Keays because we will have a midfield glut with the return of Matt Crouch, and Keays has obvious disposal issues that stop him ever maximising his talent.

Crouch is the better player, but a contracted Keays could possibly get you the GCS 2nd round priority pick.

I don't think you know what glut means.

The challenge is identifying where your total list will be in 3 years not now.

I am not getting rid of Keays but I do have questions over Crouch.

If he chooses to leave then it means we won't fill up our midfield with a crab.

I think a true rebuild means you let a good player go to develop a team for the future

 

[1970crow]

How the title is worded, it seems like its focused on once either team has won the clearance and the ball has left congestion.

I'm also assuming it's why they separated it. It's easier to stat pad pressure in congestion.

But you then go on to effectively apply it to everything until the next clearance. So it would include lack of pressure in our forward 50 from a stoppage in the back pocket 5 minutes prior. I highly doubt that it's binary in that there's only clearance pressure and post clearance pressure. There's other stats for total ground pressure, this would be a stat for the 2 or 3 disposals directly after losing a clearance. Otherwise it has no value whatsoever.

 

[jackster83]

Don't need a 22 full of elite players. Need a 22 of players who are all capable of winning their position more often than not.

Our problem is we don't have any elite players, other than Tex.

 

[skam85]

He's an extremely hard worker... but his disposal is so bad that B-grade is as high as I can give him.

I just wish he had a right hand side.
Considering the positive impact he has had on our team and midfield, I'm willing to give him some leeway.
He's still 24, so his peak years are here.
If he can spend a long chunk of this off-season getting a right foot there's no reason why he can't become elite.

 

[Danger in Texas]

He's an extremely hard worker... but his disposal is so bad that B-grade is as high as I can give him.

Part of that is that he’s our only inside mid that’s actually willing to be aggressive with his kicking most of the time, hence why he gets so many I50s. I agree that his disposal isn’t good overall, but there are redeeming factors that make him slightly over B-grade (B+ at the highest, admittedly)

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Last year Keays spent some time on the wing when all our first choice mids were fit and available. He still performed well there and found the footy.

Some of our other mids have been centre square or nothing players but Keays seems a bit more rounded.

I think we can develop Schoenberg, Berry and Pedlar as mids alongside Keays whereas with Sloane and M Crouch it actually make it harder to develop those guys as midfielders

 

[Bearded Clam]

What would we offer for Quinton Narkle? Think he’d fit perfectly in our 22

Another who’s not getting game’s at Freo, Luke Valente
Former SA U18 captain and is the right size

gives us a few targets to aim for (obviously won’t get them all)

Rankine
Lukosious
Dawson
Stephens
Narkle
Valente

Geez I hope we are up to our necks in Jordan Dawson.

Perfect age profile.
Elite left foot
Has footy smarts
Good overhead
Finds the goals even from outside 50

If the rumours sydney are in all sorts of cap space pain they may have to let him go easily.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

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Jeez Rutten doesn't sound confident here at all. My guess is that he's as good as gone. Jake Kelly replacement?

I'd do it...

 

[DJ75]

Geez I hope we are up to our necks in Jordan Dawson.

Perfect age profile.
Elite left foot
Has footy smarts
Good overhead
Finds the goals even from outside 50

If the rumours sydney are in all sorts of cap space pain they may have to let him go easily.

Happy to trade for the Melbourne 2nd round pick...

 

[Danger in Texas]

Happy to trade for the Melbourne 2nd round pick...

You're kidding, right?

 

[DJ75]

You're kidding, right?

That I would be happy with that? No.
I didn't say Sydney would be happy with it...

 

[Danger in Texas]

That I would be happy with that? No.
I didn't say Sydney would be happy with it...

You wouldn't be happy with a bonafide zone-breaking half-back that can push up the ground? One that has been one of Sydney's best players this season, is the same age as Doedee (i.e. young enough to help us in our next flag tilt) and can eventually replace Smith/Seedsman?

Obviously, I wouldn't give up anything more than an early 2nd for him, but to say you wouldn't like to get him? Please

 

[DJ75]

You wouldn't be happy with a bonafide zone-breaking half-back that can push up the ground? One that has been one of Sydney's best players this season, is the same age as Doedee (i.e. young enough to help us in our next flag tilt) and can eventually replace Smith/Seedsman?

Obviously, I wouldn't give up anything more than an early 2nd for him, but to say you wouldn't like to get him? Please

I think there are some serious wires crossed here.

I clearly said I'd happily trade the Melbourne 2nd round pick (that we have) for him. That means, yes I'd love to have him, because he would be perfect for our list.
I don't think Sydney would be willing to do that trade, but I'd be very happy with it!

 

[Danger in Texas]

I think there are some serious wires crossed here.

I clearly said I'd happily trade the Melbourne 2nd round pick (that we have) for him. That means, yes I'd love to have him, because he would be perfect for our list.
I don't think Sydney would be willing to do that trade, but I'd be very happy with it!

I mean, I'd give up our own 2nd (plus a little bit more if needed). Wouldn't go into the first round at all though, I see where you're coming from

He'd add a lot to our current make-up, especially once our two metres gained kings are gone

 

[Mutineer]

theinnersanctum.com.au

This domain may be for sale!

www.theinnersanctum.com.au

Jeez Rutten doesn't sound confident here at all. My guess is that he's as good as gone. Jake Kelly replacement?

I'd do it...

I wouldn't.

No guarantees he won't have the same issues here and he has happily extended his contract with the Bombers twice IIRC.