List Mgmt. Club greats - time to say goodbye

[Ralll]

I think they all deserve one more year.
It is too hard to discern what is causing the drop in form. Being up for so long, CoVID, injuries, age, motivation?
Give them all a full no finals+ break, and let them go all out for one more season and see what happens.

 

[tora tora tora]

I understand respect that, but what they can't always foresee is form and decline. Would he have predicted some of our older players to drop off like this or some youngsters not to come on?

Sometimes original plans need adjusted because things don't go as expected.

We need a bitcoin level of algorithm to work it out. Interesting in 2019 we used 39 players; 2018 : 34 players; 2017 38 players; 2021 37 already. We do use a lot of players.
Our list demographic is on the high side. Lots of players near 30. But maybe the club was happy for the chance of another flag for this group. The club hasn't had to deal with the issue of how to retire old champions. So we don't know how they will approach it

 

[wegetpumped]

I think that is a bit of a stretch on Astbury. He looked a bit better, but i thought he still looks easily exposed 1 on 1. If he played on he will be a "C"grade KPD who every now and then will give you a "B" level performance

Well, that's better than the f graders who occasionally get an e but still get picked.

 

[cairo tiger]

No matter what, Cotch is a 3x Premiership skipper, Brownlow Medallist, J.D Medallist and one of the most selfless players ever to pull on the Tiger stripes. He should be able to call time whenever he wants, after all his sacrifices. However, he can't go beyond next year. He looks cooked now, but deserves one last pre-season to get a run at a farewell year. But we have to do justice to our young mids. We know that Ross is no good, and now we must find out about RCD, Martyn and Dow.

I agree with everything you said until he should call time when he wants. ATM players are running away from cotch. He is like an old man in a walking stick. I feel sad for him. He needs to be told you are not fast enough anymore. Its that simple.

 

[BC9_]

This post sounds contradictory but I hope it makes sense.

I think Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

34

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

should play on next year, however, he should relinquish the captaincy.

In doing so, he should play the role Luke Hodge did at Brisbane (not from a playing position point of view - but as a figurehead, mentor, on-field coach, etc.)

Now, you may argue that Trent’s already doing that, in some ways he is, but, the fact that Luke Hodge, in that role, was at the end of his career, and he had achieved everything he needed to achieve, he was the calm head on the field for the young Brisbane players. Hodge played with an IDGAF style. Indeed, Hodge was not the captain either, but in a way he was more significant than that for the young Brisbane players. When Hodge started with Hawthorn in 2018, in that same year, Zorko was appointed captain.

Cotchin is a master at being a captain, of course, but just imagine him no longer being the captain, the level of responsibility lifted off his shoulders would be a breath of fresh air for him. It would also be an acknowledgment of us properly looking to the future, where Trent can say, “Hey, I’m Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

34

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

, I’ve achieved everything any footballer can every dream of, I’m taking a step back, now to you younger guys, it’s your turn.” That’s not to say that 2022 won’t be a flag tilt, because it certainly could (and should) be.

The nature of Hodge’s role at Brisbane was really unique, in that he had this fresh helicopter view of what was happening on the field as well as off it, no doubt (having had such a successful career, nothing seemed to phase him and that showed in his on-field performances in 2018 and 2019). I found this to be a real master stroke by Fagan and Brisbane.

I think it would be a smart move for Trent to have that role, and funnily enough, it gives us the ability to drop him if his form slumps off - and it probably will (I have a policy that you should never drop a Captain - look at GWS and Coniglio).

Trent still has a lot to offer, and I think it would be a really sudden move for him to retire at the end of this year while being the Captain.

We need to do things like this if we want to pass the baton to the future stars of our Club. There’s a process involved in that.

 

[SouthernStripes]

Don’t know if they’ll be pushed out by the club and really hope that’s not the case. However I do think Houli and Cotch will call time on their own careers come the end of the season. They are both such selfless players and have a lot going on outside of football so I’d be surprised if they are on the list as players next year

 

[tugga]

Cotchin plays on. No question in my mind.
He is banged up and needs a rest but we have too many players out.

 

[tugga]

This post sounds contradictory but I hope it makes sense.

I think Trent Cotchin should play on next year, however, he should relinquish the captaincy.

In doing so, he should play the role Luke Hodge did at Brisbane (not from a playing position point of view - but as a figurehead, mentor, on-field coach, etc.)

Now, you may argue that Trent’s already doing that, in some ways he is, but, the fact that Luke Hodge, in that role, was at the end of his career, and he had achieved everything he needed to achieve, he was the calm head on the field for the young Brisbane players. Hodge played with an IDGAF style. Indeed, Hodge was not the captain either, but in a way he was more significant than that for the young Brisbane players. When Hodge started with Hawthorn in 2018, in that same year, Zorko was appointed captain.

Cotchin is a master at being a captain, of course, but just imagine him no longer being the captain, the level of responsibility lifted off his shoulders would be a breath of fresh air for him. It would also be an acknowledgment of us properly looking to the future, where Trent can say, “Hey, I’m Trent Cotchin, I’ve achieved everything any footballer can every dream of, I’m taking a step back, now to you younger guys, it’s your turn.” That’s not to say that 2022 won’t be a flag tilt, because it certainly could (and should) be.

The nature of Hodge’s role at Brisbane was really unique, in that he had this fresh helicopter view of what was happening on the field as well as off it, no doubt (having had such a successful career, nothing seemed to phase him and that showed in his on-field performances in 2018 and 2019). I found this to be a real master stroke by Fagan and Brisbane.

I think it would be a smart move for Trent to have that role, and funnily enough, it gives us the ability to drop him if his form slumps off - and it probably will (I have a policy that you should never drop a Captain - look at GWS and Coniglio).

Trent still has a lot to offer, and I think it would be a really sudden move for him to retire at the end of this year while being the Captain.

We need to do things like this if we want to pass the baton to the future stars of our Club. There’s a process involved in that.

Hodge did have the 'luxury' of being able to play half back.
Let's face it, Cotch as a permanent 'small' forward couldn't be any worse than Aarts.

 

[BC9_]

Hodge did have the 'luxury' of being able to play half back.
Let's face it, Cotch as a permanent 'small' forward couldn't be any worse than Aarts.

You’re right Tugga, Hodge was more of a utility type player and therefore could easily play off the half back line and could be used more flexibly.

I agree with your second point, Cotchin up forward would be an upgrade on Aarts (and I wonder if Rioli being tried off the half back line will continue in 2022, which opens up what our forward line could look like next year? Perhaps not, with Vlastuin, Broad and Balta to go back in there, and I’d have Mansell > Rioli in that position too).

 

[acr2751]

all of them deserve to go on their terms as long as there is no walk up starts, if the depth is good enough they can push them out of their spots
if you retire all of our leadership in 1 hit wooden spoon here we come.
i have enjoyed watching all of them so much i hope its 1 year to many rather than 1 year to soon.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I remember back in 2014 at the end of the season Tim Membrey was out of contract at the Swans. He'd been there for 2 years kicked 100 odd goals in their reserves while he was starved of opportunity (1 seniors game in 2 years) the Swans wanted him to recommit to them. He said he'd wait to see if they were going to re-sign Goodes as Goodes was keeping him out of the side. ( My mate barracks for Sydney and his favourite player was Adam Goodes apparently Goodes last 2 years were bloody ordinary but the club felt they owed it to a club legend to play on and go out on his terms) needless to say Goodes got one more year where he was bloody ordinary as father time waits for no man. The moral of the story is kids hanging onto Cotchin and Riewoldt is potentially going to cost us CJ and Bolton leaving. Let's not forget Bolton was dominating in midfield last year whilst we had injuries and soon as they came back he was shunned to forward line. He's on record as saying he wasn't happy about that. Now we're doing the same thing putting him up forward whilst Cotchin spuds it up in midfield (because he'd be even more of a liability anywhere else on the ground). They're only human people. If your Mrs wasn't treating you right and not putting out and some hot new thing came along promising the world whispering sweet nothings in you're ear, you'd be a fool not to take her up. Cotchin has already fallen off the cliff. Best could hope for out of him next year is 3 breakdowns to soft tissue injuries and playing 12 games averaging 10-12 dinky touches at 50% efficiency. Money well spent!!!!! Oh and if Sydney could turn back time I bet they would've told Goodes thanks for your service, time to retire and kept Membrey instead of losing him for nothing. F@$k sakes people the club comes first not the egos of the players. There's a reason Bob Skilton Royce Hart, Gary Ablett snr and Leigh Matthews aren't still playing. They got old same as everyone.

Your still a disgrace.

 

[Morro]

You’re right Tugga, Hodge was more of a utility type player and therefore could easily play off the half back line and could be used more flexibly.

I agree with your second point, Cotchin up forward would be an upgrade on Aarts (and I wonder if Rioli being tried off the half back line will continue in 2022, which opens up what our forward line could look like next year? Perhaps not, with Vlastuin, Broad and Balta to go back in there, and I’d have Mansell > Rioli in that position too).

Hodge was also an Elite kick and Mark which helped.

The problem for Cotch as I see it. Cant kick, slow, not a great mark. Its inside mid or bust.

 

[mauricerioli]

We were the oldest premiership team in history last year. We’ve come off the shortest preseason ever. The quarters have been lengthened and interchanges have been reduced. We’ve had the rules changed to prevent our biggest strength. And we’ve been cruelled by injury. 9 premiership players out injured today and we’ve been 4-6 short each week all year.

I think our era may be over but the club deserve one last crack at it. I think the time might be right for Cotchin and Houli to retire, but if they feel they can have one more crack then let them play on.

Give them an extended break because we probably won’t feature in September, and hope for a refreshed team next year. Even if we don’t go near a flag, we’re good enough to make the 8. I’d hate for us to collapse the way Brisbane did after 04.

No we weren’t

Yep, Richmond 2020 premiership team average age = 27 yr 1 mth
Geelong 2011 premiership team average age = 27 yr 3 mth

Dunno if there's others. I didn't do a proper search.

Both Geelong 2011 and Hawthorn 2015 were older than us.

 

[U2tigers]

At the end of the year:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, Houli.

It's a hard call, but tell me I'm wrong?

These guys are only going to decline further and are finished.

A chance to send them off against the Hawks in the final round at the MCG would be my recommendation.

I would give Jack one more.

But think its time for Cotch, Houli and Astbury to say goodbye.

 

[SavDog23]

This thread makes me pissed off enough but if campaigners in a few years are asking for Dusty to be retired after a couple bad weeks I will personally s**t in their mailboxes.

 

[Bazzar]

I remember the possitive tiger and media comments re Jacks first year after Richo retired and he came along in leaps and bounds relishing the new number one role and almost tripling his goal average. Elite players at the top like Jack, Cotch, Houli and Astbury ultimately wont be missed next season if they depart and more than likely give those below the chance to step up and take over.

After three flags in four year the competition has not only caught up
but in the process of moving past. Tough decisions must be made if we're to regain our rightful place at the top.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I have every confidence that the club and the players themselves will make the right decisions.

Cotch has had some really good games this year around his quiet ones, Jack and Bach likewise. One of the highlights of Sunday's game for me was the way Dave Astbury was such a great leader with his effusive praise and guidance of younger boys down back like Mansell and Garthwaite - he quite obviously made them walk taller. Shedda is a gun athlete and if he says his body will hold up for x more years, you trust him.

Maybe one or two will decide they've given enough and hang up the boots, more than likely the remainder will miss some games next year, but given the fact we'll likely go hard at the draft this year, a combination of vets in and out with injury and kids in for blocks of games is an ideal situation where on-field teachers who are the highest regarded people in the competition can be there to guide the kids, support them and teach lessons in real-time. There's no better assistant coaches than ones involved in the actual game.

Mansell came back at a new level on Sunday after his debut block of games and a stint in the VFL to digest what he learned, ditto RCD and Naish. That's a product of them learning in a great system from the best and as they grow their tanks, the experience will hold them in the best stead for the next decade.

This is our way and it brought the ultimate success.

If we miss the 8 and the boys have to watch a finals series they are not part of, it lights a fire under the playing group the same way 2016 did. They finally have a full length off-season, no pressure around a three-peat, the chance to get the body back to the point where they're moving at the level required and perhaps most important of all, the opportunity for a complete mental refresh.

Trust the club and our leaders on-field and off to get it right - they've earned it.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

This thread makes me pissed off enough but if campaigners in a few years are asking for Dusty to be retired after a couple bad weeks I will personally sh*t in their mailboxes.

stuff it! retire him now too! hes past it

 

[Wooden Robot]

I agree with everything you said until he should call time when he wants. ATM players are running away from cotch. He is like an old man in a walking stick. I feel sad for him. He needs to be told you are not fast enough anymore. Its that simple.

Same thing that happened to Chris Newman, albeit we convinced him to play on two more years in a vain attempt to get him a finals win.
It was disastrous.

 

[RunningBounce]

Hodge did have the 'luxury' of being able to play half back.
Let's face it, Cotch as a permanent 'small' forward couldn't be any worse than Aarts.

Started his AFL career as a forward pocket. First kick was a goal, snapped at the Punt Rd End of the MCG against Geelong.

 

[beema limapep]

This thread makes me pissed off enough but if campaigners in a few years are asking for Dusty to be retired after a couple bad weeks I will personally sh*t in their mailboxes.

I know an empty threat when i see one. Pics of your warm up, or it isnt happening.

 

[RJK Tiger]

these older blokes need to have a good look in the mirror and ask themselves if they still have what it takes to be an AFL player. If they do, then stop playing like you have for the past 4-6 weeks and prove you still got it. Your crap performance has cost the club its season = NOT the kids, not the injuries, not the rule changes. - it is the lack of form from our seasoned players.

If they all choose to play on next year & play the same way they have recently, then they better expect the gloss of their careers in the tiger faithful to wiped off a bit. If they play on and look as bad as they have recently, i would be livid at them & Dimma for allowing it to happen. The clubs success comes first, not individuals, their ego's or their "fairytales".

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

I get that and I hope that they aren’t forced out either. I want them to call time on their career whenever they are done.

However, all our veterans need to assess where their body is at and whether they are able to continue if they really care about the club. Otherwise we’ll keep on playing them when they’re not up to it and it’ll impact our on-field performances and our ability to effectively rebuild our list.

Take the lead from Grigg, Rance and Maric. All 3 retired respectfully and honestly cos they knew they were done. A big reason why we kept winning flags

On CPH1941 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tora tora tora]

Take the lead from Grigg, Rance and Maric. All 3 retired respectfully and honestly cos they knew they were done. A big reason why we kept winning flags

On CPH1941 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Grigg injured and retired mid season: did us a solid. Maric was in the VFL in his last year, injury affected. Rance? done? Had years left in him...
None of the 30 yo brigade are parked in the VFL, apart from Caddy.
Houli is the one I hope does not get offered another contract. Astbury one more year. Cotch is not playing that well but by the end of next season could almost be a 300 gamer. Ditto Edwards......That is a milestone that club and player share.
So, of the elder players Houli and Caddy are gone this year. JR, Cotch, Astbury, next year.

 

[juss]

Hodge did have the 'luxury' of being able to play half back.
Let's face it, Cotch as a permanent 'small' forward couldn't be any worse than Aarts.

True, however let's be honest, he's slow, not the best kick (set shot or other), and struggles now when the ball gets out in space. I genuinely believe he's just too banged up now for the current AFL game.