Preview Changes: R19 vs The Port Western Hawkdog Power

[1990crow]

Mackay isn't in the side for what he brings on the field. His output has been terrible for the past 4 years, and he has put in some really poor games and never been dropped. He has a bad record at the B&F.

No, Mackay is in the side for what he brings off field. He sets the standard on the training track, he knows the gameplan, he is a great bloke, he has the experience of what it's like to be an AFL player for over 200 games.

We have a very young side. We want all those off field components in our players. We want "experience" to complement our youth.

However, we've just been smashed two weeks in a row.

I hope what we've realized - and I believe this explains why Mackay has been dropped now despite no change in form - is that playing all our experience and rewarding these off field criteria doesn't necessarily improve us on game day. I think we thought that getting all these guys back (Walker, Murphy, Lynch, Crouch soon) in addition to all the other experience (Kelly, Mackay, Smith, Seedsman, etc.) would see us improve on the field.

"We just needed Walker back. We just needed a fit Lynch. We just needed Murphy back. We just need all our experience back and the improvement will come"

It hasn't, in fact we've been worse now with the most experience we've played in weeks than at the start of the season. So this assumption that experience is the answer can no longer be used as a justification to play off-field-only players like Mackay ahead of fit, acceptable form players like Sholl who are much younger

We've been running with that assumption for 23 years. It is flawed. It resulted in our first wooden spoon by the previous coaches not blooding any young players.
Continuing to play senior players despite form being terrible.
See Jacobs, Douglas, Mackay, Betts, Walker, Lynch etc.
And yet someone this week Kelly and Murphy survive.

 

[BunjiMac]

Next year ?

When I say focus on winning, I mean making winning football and as a result premierships as the primary focus, goal and purpose.

That overrides everything and is the mechanism by which you judge decisions.

That doesn't happen immediately, but guides the decisions you make now to ensure that is achieved.

Nicks feels like he's falling into the "fatherly" figure mould trying to develop good young men and give them long careers. Sure, that's what I want all fathers to do and I hope i do the same for my kids, but this is a football club.

Winning premierships requires all types and sometimes theses types aren't the best of people, but they are bloody good footballers.

I don't need my footballers to be role models, i want them to win me a premiership.

 

[Mego Red]

We've been running with that assumption for 23 years. It is flawed. It resulted in our first wooden spoon by the previous coaches not blooding any young players.
Continuing to play senior players despite form being terrible.
See Jacobs, Douglas, Mackay, Betts, Walker, Lynch etc.
And yet someone this week Kelly and Murphy survive.

To be fair, Kelly has shown some of the best form of his career this season.

 

[BunjiMac]

To be fair, Kelly has shown some of the best form of his career this season.

Kelly gives us exactly what we expect of him and his greatest strength is he plays within his limitations. This is far better than those who are average tryers who think they are Dustin Martini and tries to play accordingly.

He is the ideal role player.

We just need to decide whether we need him as part of our future and whether there is a better replacement.

For now i think it is fine.

In the future I think Doedee remains the only medium defender.

I'd have Butts, Murray, McAseey/Worrel as the key defenders. I'm open to seeing what Frampton can do also.

It was also a shame we didn't get to see Mitchell Hinge, cant remember if he was a defender but remember him having excellent disposal by foot, which is clearly one of the things we lack as a defensive unit.

I think whether we keep or get rid of Kelly will make very little difference to our future as he is a stop gap till we ultimately find a better option. But the positive is he gives you exactly what you expect of him every single game.

 

[footy4ever]

To be fair, Kelly has shown some of the best form of his career this season.

He was a born again player at the beginning if the season, taking the game on, playing on, but as the Crows’ wheels slowly fell off he reverted to the annoying stop start caper. He’s still better than anything defender-like we have waiting in the wings, and the constant bagging on here is overdone.

 

[UcantCme]

When I say focus on winning, I mean making winning football and as a result premierships as the primary focus, goal and purpose.

That overrides everything and is the mechanism by which you judge decisions.

That doesn't happen immediately, but guides the decisions you make now to ensure that is achieved.

Nicks feels like he's falling into the "fatherly" figure mould trying to develop good young men and give them long careers. Sure, that's what I want all fathers to do and I hope i do the same for my kids, but this is a football club.

Winning premierships requires all types and sometimes theses types aren't the best of people, but they are bloody good footballers.

I don't need my footballers to be role models, i want them to win me a premiership.

I think he has pretty open and honest conversations with players

I woukd argue that Nicks is in the Bevo mould, Bevo builds huge trust and connections with his players and is really open in conversations

Bevo is going alright



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[thebirdman 24]

I think he has pretty open and honest conversations with players

I woukd argue that Nicks is in the Bevo mould, Bevo builds huge trust and connections with his players and is really open in conversations

Bevo is going alright



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Bevo rotates his best 22 way more than Nicks.

It is a bad comparison comparing a rookie coach to one who has won a flag.

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[Kane McGoodwin]

Bevo rotates his best 22 way more than Nicks.

It is a bad comparison comparing a rookie coach to one who has won a flag.

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Bevo was always rotating his 22 even prior to the Bullies being a flag threat.

Wish we took the same approach.

 

[Mego Red]

Bevo was always rotating his 22 even prior to the Bullies being a flag threat.

Wish we took the same approach.

Bevvo doing that probably cost them at least one more flag.

Considering their talent, the Bulldogs have been very disappointing since 2016. 10th, 13th, 8th and 8th. Hell - even in 2016 they had an incredibly fortunate run from 7th.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bevvo doing that probably cost them at least one more flag.

Considering their talent, the Bulldogs have been very disappointing since 2016. 10th, 13th, 8th and 8th. Hell - even in 2016 they had an incredibly fortunate run from 7th.

Which flag did it cost him?

How does making players honest with their performance lead to a worse culture?

 

[MRB37]

Bevo was always rotating his 22 even prior to the Bullies being a flag threat.

Wish we took the same approach.

Bevo was also handed a team with ten times the current talent our list has.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bevo was also handed a team with ten times the current talent our list has.

They were not going anywhere when he took them over.

He can coach.

 

[MRB37]

They were not going anywhere when he took them over.

He can coach.

I'm not saying he can't, but he was given a list that had Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Tom Liberatore, Mitch Wallis and Toby McLean as a midfield. Nicks was given Matt Crouch, Brad Crouch and Rory Sloane and he's only had 1 of them this year.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'm not saying he can't, but he was given a list that had Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Tom Liberatore, Mitch Wallis and Toby McLean as a midfield. Nicks was given Matt Crouch, Brad Crouch and Rory Sloane and he's only had 1 of them this year.

I'm not writing off Nicks as fully aware we have the youngest list in a rebuild.

Just staying i like Beveridge's approach of rotating players & wish we did it too.

 

[MRB37]

I'm not writing off Nicks as fully aware we have the youngest list in a rebuild.

Just staying i like Beveridge's approach of rotating players & wish we did it too.

Need depth to need to be able to rotate. Our depth is about as deep as a puddle. We've essentially wiped out the entire drafts from 2012 to 2017 on our list. We've got ROB, Kelly and Doedee as a result of 6 drafts as guys that are currently guaranteed 22 players for us, with Fogarty and McPherson as not every week guys yet. It's absolutely atrocious management of the team. In that same period the Bulldogs were able to add 12-15 players for them who can play, a few of them who can play at the highest level. I like all 3 of our guys, but not a one is a difference maker.

You need talent to be able to rotate, we simply don't have anywhere enough for it and it's going to be a while before we do.

 

[GreyCrow]

Beveridge - and I think Clarkson - have the ability for the squad to be on edge ie your spot isnt safe so play as hard as you can

Is it a good strategy? Well they have flags to back it up

Our squad - and I dont think anybody can argue - is a nice cushy sinecure where the noobs are put in their place

 

[TRP1996]

I'm not saying he can't, but he was given a list that had Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Tom Liberatore, Mitch Wallis and Toby McLean as a midfield. Nicks was given Matt Crouch, Brad Crouch and Rory Sloane and he's only had 1 of them this year.

And the one he has had this year has been reduced at various times to one hand and one eye.

 

[maxlilly]

When I say focus on winning, I mean making winning football and as a result premierships as the primary focus, goal and purpose.

That overrides everything and is the mechanism by which you judge decisions.

That doesn't happen immediately, but guides the decisions you make now to ensure that is achieved.

Nicks feels like he's falling into the "fatherly" figure mould trying to develop good young men and give them long careers. Sure, that's what I want all fathers to do and I hope i do the same for my kids, but this is a football club.

Winning premierships requires all types and sometimes theses types aren't the best of people, but they are bloody good footballers.

I don't need my footballers to be role models, i want them to win me a premiership.

I feel Nicks is heading in the right direction.
I think he is ruthless enough to make the best decisions for the club long term.
We will get a better idea of how he is tracking after the delisting /trading to see which players he lets go.
I think he understands the system and where we are at as a club and is wanting to get high draft picks into the club so he has something to work with in the future.
Time will tell.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Need depth to need to be able to rotate. Our depth is about as deep as a puddle. We've essentially wiped out the entire drafts from 2012 to 2017 on our list. We've got ROB, Kelly and Doedee as a result of 6 drafts as guys that are currently guaranteed 22 players for us, with Fogarty and McPherson as not every week guys yet. It's absolutely atrocious management of the team. In that same period the Bulldogs were able to add 12-15 players for them who can play, a few of them who can play at the highest level. I like all 3 of our guys, but not a one is a difference maker.

You need talent to be able to rotate, we simply don't have anywhere enough for it and it's going to be a while before we do.

You create depth by playing them (as well as trading in).

We should be playing younger players in minimum blocks of games... then managing them when they are tiring/have a couple of poor games in a row.

We ran Sholl into the ground & didn't rest him earlier enough.

Meanwhile Worrell gets just 1 game.

Murray was being yo-yo'd until recently.

Fringe senior players should make way where they get in the way of getting a block of games into a younger player.

 

[maxlilly]

I'm not writing off Nicks as fully aware we have the youngest list in a rebuild.

Just staying i like Beveridge's approach of rotating players & wish we did it too.

As someone said, we don't quite have the depth at this stage to be able to rotate players as we have so many young players.
It will probably be this way for another year or two as we continue to bring in young players and delist senior players
Lets hope when we have a bit more depth, that he does have a policy of rotating players throughout the season ans especially when players are injured.

 

[BunjiMac]

As someone said, we don't quite have the depth at this stage to be able to rotate players as we have so many young players.
It will probably be this way for another year or two as we continue to bring in young players and delist senior players
Lets hope when we have a bit more depth, that he does have a policy of rotating players throughout the season ans especially when players are injured.

I guess what this says is he'd rather stick with the tried and tested players who he knows what he'll get, rather than risk the up and down performance of more junior players.

This also says he's more concerned about respectable losses than getting games and experience into this next generation.

You don't just magically wake up one day with more depth in the side. It is a commitment to a rebuild that allows that to happen.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

To be fair, Kelly has shown some of the best form of his career this season.

Low, low bar

 

[maxlilly]

I reckon he is trying to protect the young players from embarrassing and confidence breaking performances.
I think the way he handled McAsey in his first year is still in the back of his mind as I don't think that ended up helping his development.
When you do a rebuild and gut your list, it takes a few years for those young guys to have the bodies and strength to compete.
I would have liked to have seen more of Worrell this year but apart from him, who else from our reserves would you like to see playing ?
I don't think hately and O'Connor are up to it at the moment and have doubts if they ever will.
Due to season ending injuries to quite a few players this year, I think it has limited our ability to get many more youngsters into the team

 

[thebirdman 24]

We need depth to rotate our players but we don't have depth because we don't rotate our players. Quite the conundrum! It's a miracle other clubs have rebuilt.

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[BunjiMac]

I reckon he is trying to protect the young players from embarrassing and confidence breaking performances.
I think the way he handled McAsey in his first year is still in the back of his mind as I don't think that ended up helping his development.
When you do a rebuild and gut your list, it takes a few years for those young guys to have the bodies and strength to compete.
I would have liked to have seen more of Worrell this year but apart from him, who else from our reserves would you like to see playing ?
I don't think hately and O'Connor are up to it at the moment and have doubts if they ever will.
Due to season ending injuries to quite a few players this year, I think it has limited our ability to get many more youngsters into the team

Not every player is the same or handles things the same.

Hanging your selection policy on McAsey failure to develop is just confirmation bias. Theres many players who thrive in their first year. By thrive, I'm not saying they are instant stars but you see gradual improvement game to game. McAseys failure says everything about McAsey.

You're eventually going to have to go through this development period for players, we.just choose to delay this till it there's simply no other options. This is very bad management.