Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[one eyed spy]

Add to that the way the newspaper articles portrayed the potential of her having been abducted, according to her sister. "I can speculate like everyone else". It was almost as though she was defending her decision to choose not to conclude Julie was already dead.

You would think that would be the last thing any of her family wanted to accept, regardless what they believed had probably occured.

It's all just too weird for me & I can't help wondering if there was a reason for some family members to be so certain she was deceased so soon? Were they aware of something that made it far more likely than not that she had met her demise? And if not, why not (at least publically) express that you hoped she was just being held somewhere against her will & instead plead for her safe return?

Did they receive ransome demands, or were they expecting them, which they addressed publically by making it known they believed she was already deceased, therefore sending the message we aren't going to give you a thing? Did they learn far more than we know in one of those phone calls they received?

Sounds bizarre, but there's something not quite right about the info we've been given & I can't help but think they know far more than they're saying.

 

[one eyed spy]

I have put in an application to the WA police under the Freedom of Information Act requesting access to case documents. Hopefully I wont just receive a stack of papers that have been completely redacted

Wow. I admire your commitment to discovering what occured, even moreso your faith in the police to provide you with anything useful.
If you don't ask you don't get I suppose but are you aware of any limits to sharing publically what you receive?
Best case scenario is we rush off to request the details on all missing person cases & therefore, I hope it's a worthwhile exercise.

 

[mrskafoops]

Wow. I admire your commitment to discovering what occured, even moreso your faith in the police to provide you with anything useful.
If you don't ask you don't get I suppose but are you aware of any limits to sharing publically what you receive?
Best case scenario is we rush off to request the details on all missing person cases & therefore, I hope it's a worthwhile exercise.

No, I don’t know if there are limits but I suppose they will let me know! I’m curious to know what they will share if anything!
This case has really got in my head …

 

[mrskafoops]

October is ages away

 

[one eyed spy]

October is ages away

"Respectfully REQUESTS an extension of time"...??
Tell them "respectfully....no"!

 

[Redacted]

I don't think that the car was driven into the ocean at all.
I speculate that the offender left it on the Beach with it's lights and motor running deliberately to send a message, but unexpectedly to the offender, the tide came in and washed it out to sea.
The message could be a twisted show of power to terrorise the community, a twisted joke, or if the offender was rational, a sign that he followed through an abduction threat and that the ransom should now be paid.
Either way, I don't think that the offender wanted the car not to be found, otherwise he would've dumped it somewhere else and torched it. Rather than at the most popular and visited beach in WA.

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[mrskafoops]

You will notice Dan, most of the rolling dents are to the passenger side not the drivers side. IMO the car was pushed (the drivers window was open in mid winter - as one might a bump start running along the drivers side and steering) or drove down the service road hitting the sides of the retainer wall on the bend on the passenger side along the way in both scenarios, launching over the ramp into the sea.

If that's correct, it means there was likely only one person involved in disposing the Fiat. That is, the guy steering it and Julie unfortunately was already dead. If he let it go before it launched over the ramp, probably okay but if he was in it he may have needed medical attention. He's smashed the top of his head on the roof possibly when it hit the sand, neck injury and/or in an old car like that, hurt his lower back when his backside has hit the Fiat's floor. Maybe even skew whiff on old springs - hip injury.

I think Julie Cutler is close.

I thought perhaps the drivers window was open because Julie was smoking while driving home.

 

[Kurve]

I thought perhaps the drivers window was open because Julie was smoking while driving home.

Could be. I just don't think it's likely she was in the car when it went in to the sea.

 

[zedx]

I don't think that the car was driven into the ocean at all.
I speculate that the offender left it on the Beach with it's lights and motor running deliberately to send a message, but unexpectedly to the offender, the tide came in and washed it out to sea.
The message could be a twisted show of power to terrorise the community, a twisted joke, or if the offender was rational, a sign that he followed through an abduction threat and that the ransom should now be paid.
Either way, I don't think that the offender wanted the car not to be found, otherwise he would've dumped it somewhere else and torched it. Rather than at the most popular and visited beach in WA.

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Interesting theory, which may well be right. Would explain why the car was dumped on one of Perth's most popular beaches. BUT - how do we explain the damage to the car? Was it sustained if/when she was run off the road? and I can't see how the car could have ended up on its roof in this scenario?
I also don't believe Julie was in the car at the time the car went into the water.

 

[Redacted]

Interesting theory, which may well be right. Would explain why the car was dumped on one of Perth's most popular beaches. BUT - how do we explain the damage to the car? Was it sustained if/when she was run off the road? and I can't see how the car could have ended up on its roof in this scenario?
I also don't believe Julie was in the car at the time the car went into the water.

The damage to the car is mostly likely a result of impacts and a resultant roll caused by an action called a "pit manoeuvre" IMO.
It was probably instigated by an offender to bring her car to a stop to detain her.
I believe that this pit or pitting manoeuvre was in use by LEOs in the USA and is illegal in Australia due to the danger of serious & fatal crashes due to roll overs & other serious crashes if done incorrectly.
If this happened on Stirling Highway I'd think that someone would've heard, witnessed, or came across the aftermath. Either the offender was lucky, or the event occurred in a place less likely to have anyone witness the event or come across the scene immediately afterwards.
The action of the waves and the way that the car took water though, probably put it on it's roof.

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[one eyed spy]

Afaik, one detail about the car thats seriously lacking is its exact condition when it was first spotted underwater?
Just looking at these Google search images showing varying stages of the recovery raises the question of whether they totally trashed the car themselves bringing it to shore?
I think it's possible some of the damage was actually done during the retrieval & the rest was probably done either being bashed against the pylon or rocks closer to the groyne not prior to it entering the water.
Edit - found the description of the car being first sighted upside down & half buried in sand.

 

[mrskafoops]

Afaik, one detail about the car thats seriously lacking is its exact condition when it was first spotted underwater?
Just looking at these Google search images showing varying stages of the recovery raises the question of whether they totally trashed the car themselves bringing it to shore?
I think it's possible some of the damage was actually done during the retrieval & the rest was probably done either being bashed against the pylon or rocks closer to the groyne not prior to it entering the water.
Edit - found the description of the car being first sighted upside down & half buried in sand.

View attachment 1183777

Yes I agree that they probably did a bit of damage to it…
I also agree that Julie wasn’t in the car when it went in.

I was talking to my boyfriend about this the other day and said there are so many questions! He said to just ask Julie because he thinks she’s still alive.
From the sound of her life tho I doubt she’d want to disappear. Plus she was saving up to go back overseas and her money was untouched after she went missing. Who would make plans like that and then randomly take off and vanish on purpose?

 

[one eyed spy]

Yes I agree that they probably did a bit of damage to it…
I also agree that Julie wasn’t in the car when it went in.

I was talking to my boyfriend about this the other day and said there are so many questions! He said to just ask Julie because he thinks she’s still alive.
Who would make plans like that and then randomly take off and vanish on purpose?

I very much doubt she's alive & can't think of any reason for someone who was close to her family to disappear without word for decades. I also don't think her family would keep up the charade if they knew. Seriously, what would be the point?

 

[one eyed spy]

Once again, this case sneaks back into my head too & again I'm perplexed by the naked deceased guy found facedown at the base of the cliff shortly after Julie disappeared & the items potentially belonging to Julie being recovered from the same vicinity years later?
Too much of a coincidence or 3 totally unrelated events?
Do we even know if the items recovered were thought to have been there since '88 or placed there sometime later?
Do we know anymore about the guy?

I can't recall if we have those answers or not & seeing rereading some prior discussion is responsible for putting me back here, I don't want to dive in again.....so does anyone know where those issues stand?

 

[GreyCrow]

Once again, this case sneaks back into my head too & again I'm perplexed by the naked deceased guy found facedown at the base of the cliff shortly after Julie disappeared & the items potentially belonging to Julie being recovered from the same vicinity years later?

Do we know anymore about the guy?

Forgive my lack of knowledge but I thought they were opposite ends of Scarborough? ie Julie items towards the south and the male north

Was any name provided?

 

[mrskafoops]

I made a video but the file is too large

 

[one eyed spy]

Forgive my lack of knowledge but I thought they were opposite ends of Scarborough? ie Julie items towards the south and the male north

Was any name provided?

Nah, it's the same place, both south of Cottesloe. Guy reported to have been found near Gibney St but the cliffs described are towards Beach Rd & the area being searched where the items were reportedly found was Dutch Inn, which is exactly the same place, at the end of Beach Rd. They're adjacent streets.
I don't recall seeing a name mentioned for the bloke & the only reference to potential timing of the items was from Redacted's research identifying the "Hawaiian" pen potentially being a company name that wasn't in existence in '88.

 

[Redacted]

Nah, it's the same place, both south of Cottesloe. Guy reported to have been found near Gibney St but the cliffs described are towards Beach Rd & the area being searched where the items were reportedly found was Dutch Inn, which is exactly the same place, at the end of Beach Rd. They're adjacent streets.
I don't recall seeing a name mentioned for the bloke & the only reference to potential timing of the items was from Redacted's research identifying the "Hawaiian" pen potentially being a company name that wasn't in existence in '88.

BTW. I was walking through Mercantile Lane to go into work via the lifts in our carpark, cause I was having a smoke and didn't want to hang out on the Terrace to finish it, and I noticed that the redeveloped building sitting on the old Parmelia Hotel car park site has just put up it's company logo - Hawaiian
And I thought, how spooky. The pen's logo sitting on the site of where Julie was last seen entering her car. Coincidence is a strange condition.

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[one eyed spy]

BTW. I was walking through Mercantile Lane to go into work via the lifts in our carpark, cause I was having a smoke and didn't want to hang out on the Terrace to finish it, and I noticed that the redeveloped building sitting on the old Parmelia Hotel car park site has just put up it's company logo - Hawaiian
And I thought, how spooky. The pen's logo sitting on the site of where Julie was last seen entering her car. Coincidence is a strange condition.

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[mrskafoops]

Guys, guys, guys! I have finally worked this out! So Julie would’ve left Julianas at the external exit and turned left to staff parking. Staff parking was open air not undercover… from the plans though it looks like there were vents for the parking…

 

[Redacted]

I should think that it might open a new avenue of inquiry. Maybe the diary came into the possession of someone that was still working at the Parmelia years later, and buried years later. Did they come into it's possession on the night that Julie disappeared and dispose of it later on? Was whoever was responsible for her disappearance a long term employee of the Parmelia? Was it a work colleague? Are they are still there now?

Or were they a guest at the hotel? Did they hide the diary on the night, then book a room years later to find and retrieve it for disposal?

Many questions that the extraneous Hawaiian biro could raise, if it was indeed Julie's stuff that was buried with it?

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Walking down Mercantile Lane and seeing the shiny new Hawaiian logo on that building the other day, gave me the heebie jeebies and I couldn't help but wonder...

If Julie's stuff was secreted away somewhere at or near her work, maybe she never left, or returned that night, but was taken in the carpark. Maybe her remains are in the Parmelia or a nearby building in some secluded storeroom or space only known to or accessible to the person responsible for her disappearance?

It's not my favourite theory, but it's one that would theoretically be possible to rule out with a physical search, and scrutiny of antecedents for profiles that might fit with someone stalking her that worked at or visited the Parmelia or even the nightclub in the time that she was employed there and afterwards.

If the Hawaiian pen is a later addition to the stash of items, and then buried in the sand years later, an action which might indicate a retrieval and disposal of evidence, maybe due to impending redevelopment of the space where that evidence was originally secreted away in the 80's. Might also explain the bag of clothes at the Kebab Shop, and her car being left at Cottesloe being actions to put distance from the real crime scene being at the Parmelia and lessen the possibility of employees and visitors at the Parmelia coming under scrutiny.

Dunno.
I still think Dave Everett is a viable POI, due to things like, how I think the damage to the side of her car occurred is most likely from a pit manoeuvre, and if someone just drove it themselves to Cottesloe from the Parmelia to dispose of it, then there wouldn't be any such damage.

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[Redacted]

There are scenes in this 1971 movie that were filmed in Julianas Nightclub and elsewhere in the Parmelia Hotel


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[mrskafoops]

Walking down Mercantile Lane and seeing the shiny new Hawaiian logo on that building the other day, gave me the heebie jeebies and I couldn't help but wonder...

If Julie's stuff was secreted away somewhere at or near her work, maybe she never left, or returned that night, but was taken in the carpark. Maybe her remains are in the Parmelia or a nearby building in some secluded storeroom or space only known to or accessible to the person responsible for her disappearance?

It's not my favourite theory, but it's one that would theoretically be possible to rule out with a physical search, and scrutiny of antecedents for profiles that might fit with someone stalking her that worked at or visited the Parmelia or even the nightclub in the time that she was employed there and afterwards.

If the Hawaiian pen is a later addition to the stash of items, and then buried in the sand years later, an action which might indicate a retrieval and disposal of evidence, maybe due to impending redevelopment of the space where that evidence was originally secreted away in the 80's. Might also explain the bag of clothes at the Kebab Shop, and her car being left at Cottesloe being actions to put distance from the real crime scene being at the Parmelia and lessen the possibility of employees and visitors at the Parmelia coming under scrutiny.

Dunno.
I still think Dave Everett is a viable POI, due to things like, how I think the damage to the side of her car occurred is most likely from a pit manoeuvre, and if someone just drove it themselves to Cottesloe from the Parmelia to dispose of it, then there wouldn't be any such damage.

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The thought that she is still in the city has crossed my mind too. Perhaps at the Parmelia or nearby construction site at that time?

 

[mrskafoops]

I did this video…not sure it’s a good idea but am getting positive feedback..I used a song that was in the charts when Julie went missing.

 

[zedx]

I did this video…not sure it’s a good idea but am getting positive feedback..I used a song that was in the charts when Julie went missing.

well done!! great video!!