Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

[Kwality]

The league pays several million a year as contribution towards the Northern Stand (the Southern stand already paid off), but my understanding is that this doesnt include match costs which are paid by the host club. Last year the MCC reports AFL revenue was 7.4m - and they barely played a game. The year before that AFL revenue was 9.5m and they played a whole season, finals and the grand final.

That clarifies my understanding of why the clubs were not charged rent for 2020.

 

[jac147]

I was going to write this review up in the game review but it really doesn’t have anything to do about footy.
Yesterday the bucket of chips I bought at the canteen were the best stadium chips I have ever tasted and I can’t stress the word ever!!
They were delicious, hot, crisp and crunchy and with just the right amount of crumbs and salt. So instead of putting a nearly full bucket of chips into the bin all that went into the bin was just the empty cardboard box.
Normally chips purchased at any stadium concession are cold, soft and soggy but these chips last night were delicious.
Perhaps the SMA are employing out of work chefs in their kitchens?
So instead of writing something negative about my AO experience the SMA should receive praise when it is deserved, even if this praise is being heaped on the humble chip!
Bravo!!

 

[Eighteen Seventy]

I was going to write this review up in the game review but it really doesn’t have anything to do about footy.
Yesterday the bucket of chips I bought at the canteen were the best stadium chips I have ever tasted and I can’t stress the word ever!!
They were delicious, hot, crisp and crunchy and with just the right amount of crumbs and salt. So instead of putting a nearly full bucket of chips into the bin all that went into the bin was just the empty cardboard box.
Normally chips purchased at any stadium concession are cold, soft and soggy but these chips last night were delicious.
Perhaps the SMA are employing out of work chefs in their kitchens?
So instead of writing something negative about my AO experience the SMA should receive praise when it is deserved, even if this praise is being heaped on the humble chip!
Bravo!!

I've noticed this too, both last night and 2 weeks ago at the game against Richmond. About time the SMA did something right!

 

[Grave Danger]

I was going to write this review up in the game review but it really doesn’t have anything to do about footy.
Yesterday the bucket of chips I bought at the canteen were the best stadium chips I have ever tasted and I can’t stress the word ever!!
They were delicious, hot, crisp and crunchy and with just the right amount of crumbs and salt. So instead of putting a nearly full bucket of chips into the bin all that went into the bin was just the empty cardboard box.
Normally chips purchased at any stadium concession are cold, soft and soggy but these chips last night were delicious.
Perhaps the SMA are employing out of work chefs in their kitchens?
So instead of writing something negative about my AO experience the SMA should receive praise when it is deserved, even if this praise is being heaped on the humble chip!
Bravo!!

What are you doing supporting the SMA - that money goes straight to those hate-filled bastards at the SANFL.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I was going to write this review up in the game review but it really doesn’t have anything to do about footy.
Yesterday the bucket of chips I bought at the canteen were the best stadium chips I have ever tasted and I can’t stress the word ever!!
They were delicious, hot, crisp and crunchy and with just the right amount of crumbs and salt. So instead of putting a nearly full bucket of chips into the bin all that went into the bin was just the empty cardboard box.
Normally chips purchased at any stadium concession are cold, soft and soggy but these chips last night were delicious.
Perhaps the SMA are employing out of work chefs in their kitchens?
So instead of writing something negative about my AO experience the SMA should receive praise when it is deserved, even if this praise is being heaped on the humble chip!
Bravo!!

From day 1 at the redeveloped AO, I've said the chips have been the best value item on the menu, both price wise and quality wise. Since 2015, I have broken my rule of not buying stuff at AO to screw the SMA, the most times over buying chips when its been a game on cold nights.

 

[chiwigi]

Hahahha, forget the millions they are rorting, at least the over priced chips don't taste like s**t.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I don't care if it's 3 Michelin stars, stop buying SMA food.

 

[raman]

I was going to write this review up in the game review but it really doesn’t have anything to do about footy.
Yesterday the bucket of chips I bought at the canteen were the best stadium chips I have ever tasted and I can’t stress the word ever!!
They were delicious, hot, crisp and crunchy and with just the right amount of crumbs and salt. So instead of putting a nearly full bucket of chips into the bin all that went into the bin was just the empty cardboard box.
Normally chips purchased at any stadium concession are cold, soft and soggy but these chips last night were delicious.
Perhaps the SMA are employing out of work chefs in their kitchens?
So instead of writing something negative about my AO experience the SMA should receive praise when it is deserved, even if this praise is being heaped on the humble chip!
Bravo!!

When HugeJohnson posts aren’t HugeJohnson posts.

 

[GoPorts]

Pre covid the SANFL's revenue was $35 and $33 million for the 2 prior years. When Covid hit, the then SANFL CEO Jake Parkinson went on record and stated that over 2 thirds of the SANFL's total revenue was derived from Adelaide Oval. You do the maths.

2/3 of their income from a stadium they don't own or contribute to for games they don't play in. Sounds fair
Also sounds like a smart and sustainable model moving forward

 

[JimmyBC]

Jokes aside they've had 20 years to do something about the surface of that joint.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Jokes aside they've had 20 years to do something about the surface of that joint.

They can't do anything unless they basically get rid of the car park under the stadium.

It's basically ****ed for life unless they rebuild a significant bit of it.

You have 200mm of grass and dirt, then 20-30mm of sand and then concrete.

To get plant growth you need warmth and worms - ie decent soil biology. There is no real warmth from a concrete base, worms won't live there and the grass roots can't go deep into the soil as they hit concrete so its always a soft dodgy surface, supplemented with sand

The needed to reduce the retractable roof part back in the late 1990's, with the technology and costs back then, means that the fixed roof stretches out to the fences as 98% of seats are under the drip line so that created big shadows for most of the day which means even more poor grass growth. Most stadiums in Oz go for a roof drip line that covers about 70% of seats, so the shadows aren't so great.

Some people say that orientation is the wrong way and goals should run east-west vs current north-south, but that is BS as with the the roof open you basically have a 170m x 140m opening and swapping that round so that its 140m running north south instead of 170m and 170 running east west instead of 140m does bugger all.

And the roof - fixed and retractable part is made of steel and not that ETFE clear plastic stuff like you have at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, the new Rams and Chargers stadium in Hollywood Park in LA and the Vikings stadium in Minneapolis to let the sun light in, is another issue that affects grass growth. Even the MCG northern end grandstand roof has some plastic or glass for part of its roof to let light in.





That artificial lights they shine on the grass, even do it at Adelaide Oval, does marginal stuff for grass growth.

You could try and put an extra 1.5m - 2.0m of soil onto the surface, but that means the front row of the stadium is below ground level. You also have to ask if you did that, then can the current concrete pillars supporting the current concrete base support that much weight piled onto it?? A civil engineer could give you the answer, but if its no, what is the point of putting in extra pillars to support the extra soil, and reducing parking space.

You can't simply replicate what they do at the new Raiders stadium in Vegas and the Cardinals stadium in Phoenix where they shift the grass pitch which sits on a concrete trap out of the stadium to sunbake out in the sun for good plant growth and leave a concrete base for multi-purpose events. The new Spurs stadium in London the grass pitch splits and moves, but it gets parked under the grandstand not in the sunshine, so they can make an NFL pitch for the annual match in London.

I know there is a stadium in each of Netherlands, Germany and Russia that have retractable pitches. There might be a couple of others. The stadium in St Petersburg is cool because it has a retractable roof and a retractable pitch. It cost about €700 mil about 12 years ago.

So there is no simple easy fix at Docklands otherwise - guess what - if there was it would have been done by now!

Without bulldozing the place, the only realistic solution is get rid of the concrete base and fill it in with soil. No idea how much that would cost and how much parking revenue the AFL would lose. But it could also destroy the integrity of the whole structure, so that might make it impractical or too costly.

As an absolute minimum, I would look at issues involving cutting away the concrete base under the 50m x 50m centre square and look at putting up a wall fencing that area off in the car park, so at least that area that has the heaviest traffic during a game, has a few metres depth of soil and proper grass growth for the players benefit .

 

[Pappagallo]

They can't do anything unless they basically get rid of the car park under the stadium.

It's basically f’ed for life unless they rebuild a significant bit of it.

You have 200mm of grass and dirt, then 20-30mm of sand and then concrete.

To get plant growth you need warmth and worms - ie decent soil biology. There is no real warmth from a concrete base, worms won't live there and the grass roots can't go deep into the soil as they hit concrete so its always a soft dodgy surface, supplemented with sand

The needed to reduce the retractable roof part back in the late 1990's, with the technology and costs back then, means that the fixed roof stretches out to the fences as 98% of seats are under the drip line so that created big shadows for most of the day which means even more poor grass growth. Most stadiums in Oz go for a roof drip line that covers about 70% of seats, so the shadows aren't so great.

Some people say that orientation is the wrong way and goals should run east-west vs current north-south, but that is BS as with the the roof open you basically have a 170m x 140m opening and swapping that round so that its 140m running north south instead of 170m and 170 running east west instead of 140m does bugger all.

And the roof - fixed and retractable part is made of steel and not that ETFE clear plastic stuff like you have at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, the new Rams and Chargers stadium in Hollywood Park in LA and the Vikings stadium in Minneapolis to let the sun light in, is another issue that affects grass growth. Even the MCG northern end grandstand roof has some plastic or glass for part of its roof to let light in.

View attachment 1189615



That artificial lights they shine on the grass, even do it at Adelaide Oval, does marginal stuff for grass growth.

You could try and put an extra 1.5m - 2.0m of soil onto the surface, but that means the front row of the stadium is below ground level. You also have to ask if you did that, then can the current concrete pillars supporting the current concrete base support that much weight piled onto it?? A civil engineer could give you the answer, but if its no, what is the point of putting in extra pillars to support the extra soil, and reducing parking space.

You can't simply replicate what they do at the new Raiders stadium in LA and the Cardinals stadium in Phoenix where they shift the grass pitch which sits on a concrete trap out of the stadium to sunbake out in the sun for good plant growth and leave a concrete base for multi-purpose events. The new Spurs stadium in London the grass pitch splits and moves, but it gets parked under the grandstand not in the sunshine, so they can make an NFL pitch for the annual match in London.

I know there is a stadium in each of Netherlands, Germany and Russia that have retractable pitches. There might be a couple of others. The stadium in St Petersburg is cool because it has a retractable roof and a retractable pitch. It cost about €700 mil about 12 years ago.

So there is no simple easy fix at Docklands otherwise - guess what - it would have been done by now!

Without bulldozing the place, the only realistic solution is get rid of the concrete base and fill it in with soil. No idea how much that would cost and how much parking revenue the AFL would lose. But it could also destroy the integrity of the whole structure, so that might make it impractical or too costly.

As an absolute minimum, I would look at issues involving cutting away the concrete base under the 50m x 50m centre square and look at putting up a wall fencing that area off in the car park, so at least that area that has the heaviest traffic during a game, has a few metres depth of soil and proper grass growth for the players benefit .

If local sentiment towards the joint is anything to go by the most likely outcome will be bulldoze and try again somewhere else.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If local sentiment towards the joint is anything to go by the most likely outcome will be bulldoze and try again somewhere else.

I hate the surface - but have never understood why the locals hate it so much. I get the BS with the big shadows and small sunlight area during a sunny day, but most times I've been in Melbourne its cloudy and not an issue.

Stadiums these day seem to last 40-50 years before a big knock down. We are now at 21 years since the first game. The AFL own it, borrowed $200m to buy it rather than wait 9 years and get it for $30 because the Labor government offered $220m-$250m for an upgrade so it wont be bulldozed for another 30 years I reckon.

 

[Chewy316]

I hate the surface - but have never understood why the locals hate it so much. I get the BS with the big shadows and small sunlight area during a sunny day, but most times I've been in Melbourne its cloudy and not an issue.

Stadiums these day seem to last 40-50 years before a big knock down. We are now at 21 years since the first game. The AFL own it, borrowed $200m to buy it rather than wait 9 years and get it for $30 because the Labor government offered $220m-$250m for an upgrade so it wont be bulldozed for another 30 years I reckon.

This is the case especially in the USA - but I wouldn't suggest that's the case here. Lang Park won't be knocked down any time soon. The G will be here until the end of time. Adelaide Oval was developed after how many years? Even in places like Europe, we have seen lots of clubs go with an Adelaide Oval style of refurbishment as opposed to making a new stadium from scratch either in its own or another footprint.

As long as teams are able to pull a solid revenue stream from the stadium, they won't be knocked down and rebuilt. America has taken it to the extreme because the revenue streams they generate through the luxury boxes, suites etc are gigantic. We don't have the corporate support here (nor the population) to account for some of the outrageous things that stadiums over there have.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This is the case especially in the USA - but I wouldn't suggest that's the case here. Lang Park won't be knocked down any time soon. The G will be here until the end of time. Adelaide Oval was developed after how many years? Even in places like Europe, we have seen lots of clubs go with an Adelaide Oval style of refurbishment as opposed to making a new stadium from scratch either in its own or another footprint.

As long as teams are able to pull a solid revenue stream from the stadium, they won't be knocked down and rebuilt. America has taken it to the extreme because the revenue streams they generate through the luxury boxes, suites etc are gigantic. We don't have the corporate support here (nor the population) to account for some of the outrageous things that stadiums over there have.

Lets look at some Oz experience

Sydney Football Stadium next to SCG opened 1988 completely demolished by 2020, rebuilding now.

Parramatta Stadium opened in 1986, knocked down in 2017, rebuild and opened in 2019.

Subiaco main 3 tiered stand finished 1969, stand all the way round from outer pocket next to 3 tiered stand all way round to members side opposite pocket was built mid 1990's along with a couple of members stands built in 1970's and upgraded, and all completely demolished by 2019.

Football Park open 1974 completely demolished by 2018.

Waverley Park opened 1970 completely demolished by 2003.

Lang Park was completely rebuilt in 2003.

Gabba 6 stage redevelopment starting in 1994 accelerated for Sydney Olympics so that soccer could be played there by 2000 so stage 5 completed by 1999, and stage 6 around 2005, will be completely demolished and rebuilt for 2032 Olympics.

Olympic Stadium in Sydney at one point was going to be half demolished and rebuilt as a rectangle, but Covid stopped that.

Great Southern Stand MCG is 48k capacity was finished in 1992, and MCC has seriously considered a knockdown and rebuild for middle of this decade, but that's been put on hold.

In 30 years time many stadiums will be hitting the 40-50 years old. The customer expectations in the 2040's and by2050 will be greater than today, so I expect some stadiums will be knocked down and others to receive major upgrades that are similar to building a new stadium.

 

[JimmyBC]

They can't do anything unless they basically get rid of the car park under the stadium.

It's basically f’ed for life unless they rebuild a significant bit of it.

You have 200mm of grass and dirt, then 20-30mm of sand and then concrete.

To get plant growth you need warmth and worms - ie decent soil biology. There is no real warmth from a concrete base, worms won't live there and the grass roots can't go deep into the soil as they hit concrete so its always a soft dodgy surface, supplemented with sand

The needed to reduce the retractable roof part back in the late 1990's, with the technology and costs back then, means that the fixed roof stretches out to the fences as 98% of seats are under the drip line so that created big shadows for most of the day which means even more poor grass growth. Most stadiums in Oz go for a roof drip line that covers about 70% of seats, so the shadows aren't so great.

Some people say that orientation is the wrong way and goals should run east-west vs current north-south, but that is BS as with the the roof open you basically have a 170m x 140m opening and swapping that round so that its 140m running north south instead of 170m and 170 running east west instead of 140m does bugger all.

And the roof - fixed and retractable part is made of steel and not that ETFE clear plastic stuff like you have at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, the new Rams and Chargers stadium in Hollywood Park in LA and the Vikings stadium in Minneapolis to let the sun light in, is another issue that affects grass growth. Even the MCG northern end grandstand roof has some plastic or glass for part of its roof to let light in.

View attachment 1189615



That artificial lights they shine on the grass, even do it at Adelaide Oval, does marginal stuff for grass growth.

You could try and put an extra 1.5m - 2.0m of soil onto the surface, but that means the front row of the stadium is below ground level. You also have to ask if you did that, then can the current concrete pillars supporting the current concrete base support that much weight piled onto it?? A civil engineer could give you the answer, but if its no, what is the point of putting in extra pillars to support the extra soil, and reducing parking space.

You can't simply replicate what they do at the new Raiders stadium in Vegas and the Cardinals stadium in Phoenix where they shift the grass pitch which sits on a concrete trap out of the stadium to sunbake out in the sun for good plant growth and leave a concrete base for multi-purpose events. The new Spurs stadium in London the grass pitch splits and moves, but it gets parked under the grandstand not in the sunshine, so they can make an NFL pitch for the annual match in London.

I know there is a stadium in each of Netherlands, Germany and Russia that have retractable pitches. There might be a couple of others. The stadium in St Petersburg is cool because it has a retractable roof and a retractable pitch. It cost about €700 mil about 12 years ago.

So there is no simple easy fix at Docklands otherwise - guess what - if there was it would have been done by now!

Without bulldozing the place, the only realistic solution is get rid of the concrete base and fill it in with soil. No idea how much that would cost and how much parking revenue the AFL would lose. But it could also destroy the integrity of the whole structure, so that might make it impractical or too costly.

As an absolute minimum, I would look at issues involving cutting away the concrete base under the 50m x 50m centre square and look at putting up a wall fencing that area off in the car park, so at least that area that has the heaviest traffic during a game, has a few metres depth of soil and proper grass growth for the players benefit .

There should've been something to generate heat below the surface & some sort of growth light system designed for the place.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

There should've been something to generate heat below the surface & some sort of growth light system designed for the place.

So basically they should have just asked the local stoner.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

There should've been something to generate heat below the surface & some sort of growth light system designed for the place.

The light system is used but it does SFA. How do you heat concrete over a 170m x 140m area?

 

[JimmyBC]

The light system is used but it does SFA. How do you heat concrete over a 170m x 140m area?

I'd imagine it's possible but on the lights thing I'm talking about lights that are rolled out over the turf, the house lights do fck all.

 

[Mr PA]

They can't do anything unless they basically get rid of the car park under the stadium.

It's basically f’ed for life unless they rebuild a significant bit of it.

You have 200mm of grass and dirt, then 20-30mm of sand and then concrete.

To get plant growth you need warmth and worms - ie decent soil biology. There is no real warmth from a concrete base, worms won't live there and the grass roots can't go deep into the soil as they hit concrete so its always a soft dodgy surface, supplemented with sand

The needed to reduce the retractable roof part back in the late 1990's, with the technology and costs back then, means that the fixed roof stretches out to the fences as 98% of seats are under the drip line so that created big shadows for most of the day which means even more poor grass growth. Most stadiums in Oz go for a roof drip line that covers about 70% of seats, so the shadows aren't so great.

Some people say that orientation is the wrong way and goals should run east-west vs current north-south, but that is BS as with the the roof open you basically have a 170m x 140m opening and swapping that round so that its 140m running north south instead of 170m and 170 running east west instead of 140m does bugger all.

And the roof - fixed and retractable part is made of steel and not that ETFE clear plastic stuff like you have at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, the new Rams and Chargers stadium in Hollywood Park in LA and the Vikings stadium in Minneapolis to let the sun light in, is another issue that affects grass growth. Even the MCG northern end grandstand roof has some plastic or glass for part of its roof to let light in.

View attachment 1189615



That artificial lights they shine on the grass, even do it at Adelaide Oval, does marginal stuff for grass growth.

You could try and put an extra 1.5m - 2.0m of soil onto the surface, but that means the front row of the stadium is below ground level. You also have to ask if you did that, then can the current concrete pillars supporting the current concrete base support that much weight piled onto it?? A civil engineer could give you the answer, but if its no, what is the point of putting in extra pillars to support the extra soil, and reducing parking space.

You can't simply replicate what they do at the new Raiders stadium in Vegas and the Cardinals stadium in Phoenix where they shift the grass pitch which sits on a concrete trap out of the stadium to sunbake out in the sun for good plant growth and leave a concrete base for multi-purpose events. The new Spurs stadium in London the grass pitch splits and moves, but it gets parked under the grandstand not in the sunshine, so they can make an NFL pitch for the annual match in London.

I know there is a stadium in each of Netherlands, Germany and Russia that have retractable pitches. There might be a couple of others. The stadium in St Petersburg is cool because it has a retractable roof and a retractable pitch. It cost about €700 mil about 12 years ago.

So there is no simple easy fix at Docklands otherwise - guess what - if there was it would have been done by now!

Without bulldozing the place, the only realistic solution is get rid of the concrete base and fill it in with soil. No idea how much that would cost and how much parking revenue the AFL would lose. But it could also destroy the integrity of the whole structure, so that might make it impractical or too costly.

As an absolute minimum, I would look at issues involving cutting away the concrete base under the 50m x 50m centre square and look at putting up a wall fencing that area off in the car park, so at least that area that has the heaviest traffic during a game, has a few metres depth of soil and proper grass growth for the players benefit .

Great explanation, REH! Sadly we're stuck with the stadium's poor surface, as the AFL have committed to a $200m + refurbishment of the stadium which is mainly just adding and improving amenities inside and outside the stadium. This all but ensures that it won't be demolished and rebuilt properly.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I'd imagine it's possible but on the lights thing I'm talking about lights that are rolled out over the turf, the house lights do fck all.

How is it possible.? how do you imagine it?

Euro soccer stadiums put tubes in soil a few feet down and run hot water thru them. You don't have a few feet here, you have 200mm of soil and grass.

 

[JimmyBC]

How is it possible.? how do you imagine it?

Euro soccer stadiums put tubes in soil a few feet down and run hot water thru them. You don't have a few feet here, you have 200mm of soil and grass.

A billion soil heating cables

 

[bomberclifford]

A billion soil heating cables

Nanobots.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

A billion soil heating cables

You paying?

 

[Sleezy]

How is it possible.? how do you imagine it?

Euro soccer stadiums put tubes in soil a few feet down and run hot water thru them. You don't have a few feet here, you have 200mm of soil and grass.

Dumb question, but why not just fill it deeper with dirt and adjust the first row if need be?