Play Nice Politics # 4 - The madness continues here.....

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Jun 21, 2004
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Jun 7, 2011
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We understand that. Our dilemma is overseas travel and possible relocation overseas for work to live at some point next year and the place it could be has vast covid case numbers unlike here. We just want to wait longer for more vaccine data on how it works with kids before finalising a decision for them to be vaccinated

Why is it expected to interact with children differently to adults? Genuine question.
 
Jul 6, 2017
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Why can't kids get vaccinated, are they at more risk? I thought they are just on the back burner as their risks of even catching, let alone dying of covid are incredibly negligible. I'm not wearing a mask, ruining hospitality businesses etc etc because people don't want to immunise their kids. Do or don't, I don't care either way, but that's your and their risk, not my cross to bear.
It is more the vaccine manufacturers not having approved vaccines for young kids although one may have?. It is the study of the effect of the vaccines on children that is needed and whilst i am doing my bit as is my wife, i'd want to be more certain i am not playing with my kids lives until there is more data and we have the medical associations approval.

Not that this should stop us opening up mind you, but if we (meaning me and my wife..not the royal we) can wait for there to be more surety for the kids tgat having it will be ok considering kids are at low risk, then all the better
 
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Why is it expected to interact with children differently to adults? Genuine question.
It apparently affects children less although not so sure re the delat strain. My dilemma is my kids arent little (ie pre 10 years old) so are they, particularly my older one, moving into a more risky age category considering plenty of people in their 20's have got very ill from covid
 
Aug 17, 2007
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It is more the vaccine manufacturers not having approved vaccines for young kids although one may have?. It is the study of the effect of the vaccines on children that is needed and whilst i am doing my bit as is my wife, i'd want to be more certain i am not playing with my kids lives until there is more data and we have the medical associations approval.

Not that this should stop us opening up mind you, but if we can wait for there to be more surety for the kids tgat having it will be ok considering kids are at low risk, then all the better
My wife and I are of the same view.

Wife got vaccinate quite early due to her work, I am booked in.

We would vaccinate our son as soon as deemed safe and available.


I may see it a bit unfair to ostracise and vilify against those choosing not to vaccinate, but I have no issue personally with getting vaxed and feel I should and happy to.




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My wife and I are of the same view.

Wife got vaccinate quite early due to her work, I am booked in.

We would vaccinate our son as soon as deemed safe and available.


I may see it a bit unfair to ostracise and vilify against those choosing not to vaccinate, but I have no issue personally with getting vaxed.




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I'm not suggesting ostracisation, it's a personal choice. I've never had a flu shot because I rarely get sick and am inherently lazy when it comes to healthcare. Now, if I happened to be at a doctor for another reason and they offered up the jab then and there I'd take it. I'm all over this vaccination because I know that if we don't get enough vaccinated then we'll continue to be controlled by chief of police and health bureaucrats. None of which would ordinarily have spent any time in the real world over the last 3 decades.

"What do you mean we're not getting funding increase, we spent all our money last year, this is bullshit. No cases roaming the community, stiff s**t, 1 person per 4 square metres and no vertical consumption, businesses will just need to adapt to lesser income and increased costs deriving it"

I do not trust these risk averse dimwits with no skin in the game (apart from pollies who do very well from fear) to hand back control when we meet stated goals per Kane McGoodwin post. They will use whatever grey area they can to continue the imposition on the public at large. Lockdowns may go at 70%, but my money is on other controls being attempted to be imposed as cases no doubt transmit around the community. I'm expecting attempts at legislation to allow controls outside of declaration of public emergency and I bet, noting recent discussion here, that kids will become a grey area that is attempted to be used to delay handing back lockdowns. And having read that dailymail.uk story, gee there's a lot of 'maybe', 'ordinarily', 'shouldn't' type language.

Hope I'm wrong. But it looks like they'll be keeping all the other controls at 70% and no reference to considering opportunity to and vaccinated as the same thing.
 
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I didn't know this.

Big tick for Victoria.



The 2400 baseline cap in ICU and 5000 to 35000 model projection in demand had COVID took hold here is a key reason for our lockdowns.


There is some thought that even with vaccinations hitting target percentages the demand can still impact baseline ICU levels. Statistically, like the seasonal flu, there will still be critically ill patients even when herd immunity is achieved.

As I said earlier, most flu seasons our ICU capability is stretched.

COVID will have a similar impact and is here to stay.



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SA & all of Australia increased their potential ICU capacity when the pandemic 1st hit. Not only extra ventilators brought in, but a big program to upskill nurses to work in ICU.

Hopefully this extra capacity won't be needed though.
 
It is more the vaccine manufacturers not having approved vaccines for young kids although one may have?. It is the study of the effect of the vaccines on children that is needed and whilst i am doing my bit as is my wife, i'd want to be more certain i am not playing with my kids lives until there is more data and we have the medical associations approval.

Not that this should stop us opening up mind you, but if we (meaning me and my wife..not the royal we) can wait for there to be more surety for the kids tgat having it will be ok considering kids are at low risk, then all the better
Yes, I don't believe the pharmaceutical companies have done research of the covax on kids.

Given kids don't seem to be at risk, this can be considered down the track if need be... but the priority should be on vaccinating adults who may be at risk.
 
Aug 17, 2007
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SA & all of Australia increased their potential ICU capacity when the pandemic 1st hit. Not only extra ventilators brought in, but a big program to upskill nurses to work in ICU.

Hopefully this extra capacity won't be needed though.
Baseline or surge?

If it is baseline, ie capital expenditure, shouldn't this be mentioned in the Agency Statements?

The only mention of such a project in the Statements is the psychiatric ICU expansion.


If it is surge capacity that has increased isn't that just taking from one area to prop up another?

Which really is not sustainable.


We already delay elective surgeries during bad flu seasons due to reallocation of resources.








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I'm not suggesting ostracisation, it's a personal choice. I've never had a flu shot because I rarely get sick and am inherently lazy when it comes to healthcare. Now, if I happened to be at a doctor for another reason and they offered up the jab then and there I'd take it. I'm all over this vaccination because I know that if we don't get enough vaccinated then we'll continue to be controlled by chief of police and health bureaucrats. None of which would ordinarily have spent any time in the real world over the last 3 decades.

"What do you mean we're not getting funding increase, we spent all our money last year, this is bullshit. No cases roaming the community, stiff sh*t, 1 person per 4 square metres and no vertical consumption, businesses will just need to adapt to lesser income and increased costs deriving it"

I do not trust these risk averse dimwits with no skin in the game (apart from pollies who do very well from fear) hand back control when we meet stated goals per Kane McGoodwin post. They will use whatever grey area they can to continue the imposition on the public at large. Lockdowns may go at 70%, but my money is on other controls being attempted to be imposed as cases no doubt transmit around the community. I'm expecting attempts at legislation to allow controls outside of declaration of public emergency and I bet, noting recent discussion here, that kids will become a grey area that is attempted to be used to delay handing back lockdowns. And having read that dailymail.uk story, gee there's a lot of 'maybe', 'ordinarily', 'shouldn't' type language.

Hope I'm wrong. But it looks like they'll be keeping all the other controls at 70% and no reference to considering opportunity to and vaccinated as the same thing.
It's why it's pleasing that the government have finally put in place a plan to get out of covid, including targeted vaccination rates.

Should have been done a long time ago... even if indicative so the community have a better understanding.

Given how different states & territories have reacted, you could well be right that some may be to risk adverse after we have reached vaccination targets... but I don't believe the majority of the public will be happy at the next polls.

Currently we are in no man's land with around 20% with 1 covax & 40% fully vaccinated. The sooner we get to the 70%/80% mark, the sooner we can get back to some sort of normality.
 
Baseline or surge?

If it is baseline, ie capital expenditure, shouldn't this be mentioned in the Agency Statements?

The only mention of such a project in the Statements is the psychiatric ICU expansion.


If it is surge capacity that has increased isn't that just taking from one area to prop up another.

Which really is not sustainable.





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Surge, in case everything went to s**t.

Obviously ESS would be cancelled... & yes, it's not sustainable.
 
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Surge, in case everything went to sh*t.

Obviously ESS would be cancelled... & yes, it's not sustainable.
So hypothetically we are all vaccinated there could well still be lockdowns because of the risk that ICU beds are near capacity? Especially in flu season.

Bearing in mind for COVID patients infection control is also an issue.



The aim here is to live with COVID. Treat it like a flu. Herd immunity through vaccination and exposure. And still expect people to get it. Which, like the flu, means a percentage of critical cases.


What I am getting at here is a prediction ICU beds will be a shifting of goal posts (with targeted vaccination) for lockdown reasons into winter 2022.

Also a reason why mask wearing and QR codes will be with us for a long time as well.


I hope I am wrong. But I did say last year we would still be dealing with lockdowns in 2021 due to vaccine resources.

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So hypothetically we are all vaccinated there could well still be lockdowns because of the risk that ICU beds are near capacity? Especially in flu season.

Bearing in mind for COVID patients infection control is also an issue.



The aim here is to live with COVID. Treat it like a flu. Herd immunity through vaccination and exposure. And still expect people to get it. Which, like the flu, means a percentage of critical cases.


What I am getting at here is a prediction ICU beds will be a shifting of goal posts (with targeted vaccination) for lockdown reasons into winter 2022.

Also a reason why mask wearing and QR codes will be with us for a long time as well.


I hope I am wrong. But I did say last year we would still be dealing with lockdowns in 2021 due to vaccine resources.

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The modelling by the Gratton Institute suggests with at least 80% vaccinated, the numbers hospitalised are at manageable levels. Also, most hospitalised are not in ICU.
 
Forget wasting money on quarantine sites for OS arrivals.

What the focus should be is capital expenditure on ICU capacity across Australia.

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This was already done when the pandemic 1st hit Australia.
 
Nov 24, 2007
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I may see it a bit unfair to ostracise and vilify against those choosing not to vaccinate, but I have no issue personally with getting vaxed and feel I should and happy to.

with any luck it will fix your hair like it fixed Morrison’s

C74D58BD-73E6-4AF1-A580-9BEC935AAEEE.gif
 
Not baseline.

At least not in SA.

No capital expenditure on ICU mentioned in Agency Statements. Apart from psychiatric.

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I can guarantee you significant capital expenditure was acquitted via DHW via Treasury & to the Commonwealth to increase our ICU capacity... along with the training of nursing staff to work in ICU.
 
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The modelling by the Gratton Institute suggests with at least 80% vaccinated, the numbers hospitalised are at manageable levels. Also, most hospitalised are not in ICU.
You are correct, the modelling right now suggests we can cope with 80% vaccinations.


What I am suggesting is a movement in goalposts.

Wait and see I guess.

Last year most people thought we would all be vaccinated and lockdowns a bad memory.


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I can guarantee you significant capital expenditure was acquitted via DHW via Treasury & to the Commonwealth to increase our ICU capacity... along with the training of nursing staff to work in ICU.
It might be in this year's AS. If it has happened that is good.



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You are correct, the modelling right now suggests we can cope with 80% vaccinations.


What I am suggesting is a movement in goalposts.

Wait and see I guess.

Last year most people thought we would all be vaccinated and lockdowns a bad memory.


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Yes, unfortunately we have a PM who initially didn't think it was a race to get vaccinated...
 
It might be in this year's AS. If it has happened that is good.



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Occurred 2 financial years ago, not last financial year.

I have seen the financial acquittals for 2 LHN's.
 
Aug 17, 2007
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Occurred 2 financial years ago, not last financial year.

I have seen the financial acquittals for 2 LHN's.
Can't see it in 2019/20 as an increase in base.

Of course if it is just capital expense on equipment to assist surge then it won't be a specific item.



Anyway, just a prediction. I do hope I am wrong and 2022 is lockdown free. Australia wide.

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