Play Nice Politics # 4 - The madness continues here.....

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MOD NOTICE

Abusing and/or trolling other posters in this thread will not be tolerated from this point on.

Debate away and continue to have strong opinions, but abusing posters ie calling them idiots/stupid etc or trolling posters by laugh liking their posts will not be tolerated going forward.

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[fortunatecrow]

On (hopefully) a lighter note, I'm not convinced that the phrasing below is the absolute best way to encourage reluctant people to come forward & test....or am I just old-fashioned?

“...we are asking that if you have employed a sex worker in the St Kilda area, you need to come forward and get tested, no matter where you are,” Mr Foley said at Wednesday’s Victorian press conference.

 

[Kwality]

On (hopefully) a lighter note, I'm not convinced that the phrasing below is the absolute best way to encourage reluctant people to come forward & test....or am I just old-fashioned?

“...we are asking that if you have employed a sex worker in the St Kilda area, you need to come forward and get tested, no matter where you are,” Mr Foley said at Wednesday’s Victorian press conference.

How would phrase it .... good luck .

 

[fortunatecrow]

How would phrase it .... good luck .

All they needed to say:

“...we are asking that if you have employed a sex worker been in the St Kilda area, you need to come forward and get tested, no matter where you are,” Mr Foley said at Wednesday’s Victorian press conference.

 

[relapse]

I literally said Trump was planning to do it, but eventually decided against it for all of the four years he was in power. There is a whole speech he made with words to that effect.

Yeah right....

Yet here is Trump back in April this year saying the complete opposite and confirming that he had planned to do a full withdrawal on the 1st of May 2021

 

[Slippery Pete]

Yeah right....

Yet here is Trump back in April this year saying the complete opposite and confirming that he had planned to do a full withdrawal on the 1st of May 2021

View attachment 1209673

What part of botched withdrawal don’t you understand?

Yes - he wanted to withdraw.

No - he would not have executed it the way it was executed over the last few days.

 

[Slippery Pete]

and for which they never had an end game or exit strategy.

Sounds like something else

 

[Slippery Pete]

So you are against the role of the US as the worlds policeman ?

It depends which US you’re talking about

 

[Kwality]

It depends which US you’re talking about

The US of A that we have tomorrow & the day after. Looking back is a sample of what is likely to be.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Always has a thought-provoking take

 

[Geoffa32]

Sometimes the cure turns out to be worse than the disease.

The USA went into Afghanistan, ostensibly to kill or capture Bin Laden, and to wipe out Al Quaeda. It took them 10 years to get Bin Laden, who was in Pakistan the whole time. In the meantime, they got bogged down in a war without end, which they never had a chance of winning - and for which they never had an end game or exit strategy.

Don't start a war, if you don't have a plan for what comes next.

They haven't won a war since WW2

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Vader]

No Vader- only a complete and utter idiot would argue that a competent leader wouldn't have got all the civilians at risk out before the final withdrawal of the troops happened - only an idiot would not get their people out first.

The guy could not organise a chook raffle.

A month after Biden said there was no chance 'you see people being lifted off the roof' of a US embassy in Afghanistan, helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomats

The US scrambled to evacuate diplomats from the helicopter landing pad next to the embassy despite Biden and his aides trying to avoid exactly that.

news.yahoo.com

Given that none of the Western leaders managed to achieve it, and Trump is the furthest possible thing imaginable from a "competent leader"...

 

[Bearded Clam]

Yeah right....

Yet here is Trump back in April this year saying the complete opposite and confirming that he had planned to do a full withdrawal on the 1st of May 2021

View attachment 1209673

its pointless discussing anything with the hard right tumpists..

seriously.. anyone that observed the total and utter chaos of the four years that was the trump presidency, which in its last dying months saw the orange moron even suggest that injecting bleach could help fight off covid and then finally encouraging an insurrection against the newly, and fairly, elected US government, clearly needs to be ignored.

they are quite obviously so welded tight on to the absolute and utter lunacy of the hard right they are beyond help…

 

[Slippery Pete]

its pointless discussing anything with the hard right tumpists..

seriously.. anyone that observed the total and utter chaos of the four years that was the trump presidency, which in its last dying months saw the orange moron even suggest that injecting bleach could help fight off covid and then finally encouraging an insurrection against the newly, and fairly, elected US government, clearly needs to be ignored.

they are quite obviously so welded tight on to the absolute and utter lunacy of the hard right they are beyond help…

I’ve got my own problems with him but none of you will ever have a rational discussion about his actual foreign and domestic policies, his trade policies and his immigration policies (I suspect because you don’t understand them).

You all just want to talk about how orange he is and how mean he is on Twitter.

Okay.

 

[Vader]

What might have happened in a parallel universe does not make Biden's handling of the withdrawal 0.000000000000001% better or 0.000000000000001% worse. It is irrelevant to a discussion of what Biden's administration actually did, and if it is genuinely the best defence that you can mount, that's pretty damning.

The facts are these:

• Biden inherited a ticking time bomb, courtesy of Trump (signing the withdrawal deal with the Taliban) and Bush (who got them into the mess in the first place).
• None of the Western Allies expected the Taliban to overrun the country so quickly and comprehensively.
• None of the Western Allies planned to extract their Afghan allies at the same time as they did their own forces. All intended to bring them out later, presumably after doing some vetting (we know this was Scomo's plan).

I fail to see what any other leader could or would have done differently. "Should" is another matter, but one which is only clear with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Vader]

They haven't won a war since WW2

Gulf War I? i.e. Kuwait.

 

[relapse]

What part of botched withdrawal don’t you understand?

Yes - he wanted to withdraw.

No - he would not have executed it the way it was executed over the last few days.

You literally tried to claim about three posts ago that he was originally planning to withdraw, but, "he changed his mind".

Now you're saying "he would have done it differently"

Which is it

1. He changed his mind and wasn't going to withdraw
2. He was going to withdraw, but would have handled it differently?

 

[relapse]

They haven't won a war since WW2

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Does anyone actually ever win a war?

The amount of money that every country wastes on fueling the perpetual war machine is absolutely criminal and an incredibly sad reflection on the human race.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

US military machine needs conflict for economic reasons.

And to be fair they did put a dent in terrorism.




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... which didn't need the full 20 years, for the latter.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

NSW had 633 new cases today. They're cooked.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

NSW had 633 new cases today. They're cooked.

Just getting worse by the day unfortunately.

Can see why the extra vaccines are going to NSW...

 

[fortunatecrow]

The facts are these:

• Biden inherited a ticking time bomb, courtesy of Trump (signing the withdrawal deal with the Taliban) and Bush (who got them into the mess in the first place).
• None of the Western Allies expected the Taliban to overrun the country so quickly and comprehensively.
• None of the Western Allies planned to extract their Afghan allies at the same time as they did their own forces. All intended to bring them out later, presumably after doing some vetting (we know this was Scomo's plan).

I fail to see what any other leader could or would have done differently. "Should" is another matter, but one which is only clear with the benefit of hindsight.

My point was that parallel universe predictions about what Trump would have done do not excuse Biden.

I'm sure that your first two points are true, I have no idea about the the third but I am certainly in no position to argue against it. But that doesn't matter, because even if all three are true that is still no defence of what the Biden administration has done here.

In relation to I fail to see what any other leader could or would have done differently - its actually pretty easy to see what a competent administration would have done:

(1) Know that the Afghan army was likely to fail when support was withdrawn.
(2) Evacuate the interpreters and tell the US citizens to leave.

In all honesty, I think there's a fair chance Trump would have stuffed it up. But that doesn't give Biden one millimetre of an excuse. And it completely fails the people who thought they were voting for someone better than Trump.

 

[Slippery Pete]

You literally tried to claim about three posts ago that he was originally planning to withdraw, but, "he changed his mind".

Now you're saying "he would have done it differently"

Which is it

1. He changed his mind and wasn't going to withdraw
2. He was going to withdraw, but would have handled it differently?

Both.

1 happened during his first term.

During his first term he said this.

”My original instinct was to pull out, and historically I like following my instincts. But all of my life I heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office.

“The consequences of a rapid exit are both predictable and unacceptable.”

2. He had put the wheels in motion for an eventual withdrawal in his second term (which he never got) with a whole bunch of conditions.

Enter Sleepy Joe.

 

[Crow till I die]

My point was that parallel universe predictions about what Trump would have done do not excuse Biden.

I'm sure that your first two points are true, I have no idea about the the third but I am certainly in no position to argue against it. But that doesn't matter, because even if all three are true that is still no defence of what the Biden administration has done here.

In relation to I fail to see what any other leader could or would have done differently - its actually pretty easy to see what a competent administration would have done:

(1) Know that the Afghan army was likely to fail when support was withdrawn.
(2) Evacuate the interpreters and tell the US citizens to leave.

In all honesty, I think there's a fair chance Trump would have stuffed it up. But that doesn't give Biden one millimetre of an excuse. And it completely fails the people who thought they were voting for someone better than Trump.

Don't forget, Biden has undone and ripped up just about ever single other thing Trump had done - so if he didn't like the agreement, he had time to renegotiate or tear it up or whatever. So that line that he was stuck with it just does not hold up whatsoever. That his administrations withdrawal has been cataclysmic is 100% on them

 

[Kwality]

My point was that parallel universe predictions about what Trump would have done do not excuse Biden.

I'm sure that your first two points are true, I have no idea about the the third but I am certainly in no position to argue against it. But that doesn't matter, because even if all three are true that is still no defence of what the Biden administration has done here.

In relation to I fail to see what any other leader could or would have done differently - its actually pretty easy to see what a competent administration would have done:

(1) Know that the Afghan army was likely to fail when support was withdrawn.
(2) Evacuate the interpreters and tell the US citizens to leave.

In all honesty, I think there's a fair chance Trump would have stuffed it up. But that doesn't give Biden one millimetre of an excuse. And it completely fails the people who thought they were voting for someone better than Trump.

Trump has left the building, its academic, the real world is what counts ...

 

[FR0GGY]

Over 600 cases in NSW.. Gladys’s inaction has seen covid spread from Sydney into country nsw, vic and further..

and scomo and gladys call this the gold ******* standard??..

The so called gold standard is nothing more than a massive steaming ******* dogshit rolled in gold glitter.

if this was Dan Andrews that was responsible for this absolute disaster the newscorp/sky news after dark would be a 1000 more time hysterical than what they already are when reporting on labor premiers.

The double standards and hypocracy of the hard right knows no ******* bounds whatsoever.

Except this is the delta strain which spreads far more rapidly.
600 delta is equal to what amount of the other strain?
Dan registered in the 700’s did he not?