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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
WRFL Indentity said:
To be fair, I don't think we need to let all 3 go, but I'm not opposed to the idea.

Gresham and Clark are the obvious ones to come in and have immediate impact. If, and I understand it's a big IF, they stay fit, I believe their output will exceed that of Ross and Dunstan by some margin.

My Billings replacement is Battle - not like-for-like, but still something where the pay-off could be huge.

The other two factors we need to be mindful of are

1) Natural improvement of players like King, Coffield, Connolly, Byrnes, Sharman etc...
2) Fitness of Gresham, Jones, Hannebery (a reach), Paton etc...

I can see why you believe these 3 (Ross, Dunstan and Billings) need to be kept, I just think we have the pieces to cover and improve.
Click to expand...


It sounds as if Battle might want out this year. I think he looks awful as a wingman as well. He'd also have to improve significant amount to cover the same impact. Over all there are a lot of hopes and ifs in there, I'd rather something less risky. I think there were enough things going against us to give this side some benefit of the doubt and to try again with the side more bonded and fit and see where we go. If we don't make finals next year get serious and trade out and reload.
 
Saintos The ITK said:
Might be time to look at trading out Gresh. Hardly been on the field last two years and looks to be injury prone.
Click to expand...


He's got special traits so I'd persist with him. You wouldn't get much value from him right now so almost better to just keep him locked away and hope for the best.
 
gringo2011 said:
It sounds as if Battle might want out this year. I think he looks awful as a wingman as well. He'd also have to improve significant amount to cover the same impact. Over all there are a lot of hopes and ifs in there, I'd rather something less risky. I think there were enough things going against us to give this side some benefit of the doubt and to try again with the side more bonded and fit and see where we go. If we don't make finals next year get serious and trade out and reload.
Click to expand...
100% there are a lot of ifs and hopes and I understand the desire to exercise caution, but that is most post-seasons and I worry that we will miss our chance to really put the work into the list while the 3 of them have value.

In your scenario, we also need to consider that all 3 will be looking for multi-year deals which can make moving them even harder. I believe that scenario sets us back considerably more than if we cut the cord now.
 

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WRFL Indentity said:
100% there are a lot of ifs and hopes and I understand the desire to exercise caution, but that is most post-seasons and I worry that we will miss our chance to really put the work into the list while the 3 of them have value.

In your scenario, we also need to consider that all 3 will be looking for multi-year deals which can make moving them even harder. I believe that scenario sets us back considerably more than if we cut the cord now.
Click to expand...


I doubt Billings value would be less than a second rounder after next year if he plays every game regardless, maybe even more than that if he plays well. Bont is from the same draft as Billings and this year stepped up a level so he may still have another gear uninjured. Ross and Dunstan probably get us third round picks. I doubt that gets worse either. If we can contract them for less it would be a massive gamble to lose them when we are supposedly on the cusp of finals.

Not sure moving them on would be harder, someone would always take them, it's not like they are three massive spuds. If not any that get pushed out are handy depth at Sandy and train the kid there. Clubs like the Dogs have that in their VFL. Port always carry good ex best players 22 as well.

I think that sets the clock back a few more years personally. My hope is that they all go out to the market and realise that they were over paid for too long and sign back on or at least 2 of them. Losing three players in the prime of their careers makes a massive hole and if you decide to cover them with replacements you look at guys like Matt Crouch who looks injury prone or take a risk on a guy like Brodie who probably costs your compensation and may be a bit more and probably on a similar wage.
 
gringo2011 said:
We have been brave under Lethers. Maybe too brave because we lose players and replace them with guys that aren't much of an upgrade on higher wages. He's culled 3/4 of the list in 3 years. If that's not brave it's foolhardy.


Brave is good, stupid isn't. Dunny, Billings and Seb Ross are all lacking as far as being stars go but Seb and JB have both been well paid players because they were both top 50 players in the comp at one point. JB is boring but solid. Seb has sacrificed his high possession game to become more of a utility back/wingman. Dunny has had an extremely disappointing career too until this year but he's finally playing like a top 20 AFL mid.

Our midfield next year without that lot would be Steele (elite), Jones (inconsistent), Crouch (solid B), Gresh (out for 2 seasons injured), Clark (may get fit enough in the off season), Hanners (broken), Bytel (13 games mostly as a sub), Byrnes (developing on a HHF/wing role) then any new players we draft or trade in. It's not quite the Dogs.

Considering that we have struggled to field a fit side most weeks losing players from an area we have neglected for a decade seems a risky plan. We are probably carrying to many defenders of a similar size and lacking some pieces still.

If we finish bottom 6 next year it will bite us hard. That midfield looks very light on. A lot relies on players having a Jack Steele like break out. Realistically Clark and Gresham are probably most likely to have the extra gear to go up and have enough games behind them. To me you want a bit of cover at least. If the 3 will sign on less you keep them otherwise you are weakening your list for a gamble that doesn't seem to add up.

The Dogs won a GF against the flow and a big part of that was having an insane haul of kids like MacRae, Stringer, Daniel, Libba, Dahlhouse, Dunkley, Johanissen and Bont all playing well ahead of schedule. A few older guys playing career best footy at just the right time and as soon as they had won it they went into a hard rebuild. That's brave, take your premiership winning side and rebuild around your youth.
Click to expand...
Absolutely no way you can consider Ross and jb top 50 players. And dunny is not a top 20 mid. If they were so great, other teams would be clamouring to get them.
They were well paid because we had to spend the money and they were the best of a bad bunch.
 
WRFL Indentity said:
100% there are a lot of ifs and hopes and I understand the desire to exercise caution, but that is most post-seasons and I worry that we will miss our chance to really put the work into the list while the 3 of them have value.

In your scenario, we also need to consider that all 3 will be looking for multi-year deals which can make moving them even harder. I believe that scenario sets us back considerably more than if we cut the cord now.
Click to expand...
Yep , they are not going to sign one year deals so the idea of trying for finals one more year with them is pointless
 
gringo2011 said:
He's got special traits so I'd persist with him. You wouldn't get much value from him right now so almost better to just keep him locked away and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
I think he’d have currency
 
SaintsSeptember said:
There is a very thin line between brave and stupid. Its hard to know which side we are on. Was the Hill trade brave or stupid?
Was moving Ben McEvoy on brave or stupid?
Click to expand...
It is a thin line, but being brave and being stupid are 2 very different things.

letting Goddard go only to use that pick on Tom Lee was the definition of stupid.

letting McEvoy go was the right decision, he played in their flags but early days they were going with Ceglar ahead of him and he he played a fair few in the VFL. We probably just wasted that pick on Dunstan. Savage was handy and could’ve been a better player in a better team.

Stanley for pick 21 was good but we wasted it on Hugh Goddard.

Port are a team that identified they weren’t going further with their list, so refreshed it by trading out Polec, Pittard, Impey, and Wingard and allowed Trengove to leave via free agency.
This allowed them to bring in Lycett and draft players like Georgiades, Butters, Rozee and Durrsma.

We need to lose something to gain something, currently we have pick 7, which I assume we’ll want to (and need to) use on a top young midfielder.

But after that We have nothing. Getting Ben King is priority number 1 in my opinion.
He’s A known quantity with clear growth potential, and most importantly he would make us the most potent forward line in the competition and a genuine contender.
But what can we offer GC for him? We need to get as many picks this year and next as we can to help get that trade over the line.
 
Saintos The ITK said:
I think he’d have currency
Click to expand...
Trade him to Hawthorn for some magic beans and watch them leapfrog us on the ladder the way Freo have done since trading Acres to them.

#huge mistakes of our lifetime
#only kidding, but Wingard and Gresh together would be a headache
Edit: In case it's not clear I have no idea what hashtags are or how they're used
 
luca77 said:
Trade him to Hawthorn for some magic beans and watch them leapfrog us on the ladder the way Freo have done since trading Acres to them.

#huge mistakes of our lifetime
#only kidding, but Wingard and Gresh together would be a headache
Edit: In case it's not clear I have no idea what hashtags are or how they're used
Click to expand...
So let’s go the Chad.
 

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gringo2011 said:
I doubt Billings value would be less than a second rounder after next year if he plays every game regardless, maybe even more than that if he plays well. Bont is from the same draft as Billings and this year stepped up a level so he may still have another gear uninjured. Ross and Dunstan probably get us third round picks. I doubt that gets worse either. If we can contract them for less it would be a massive gamble to lose them when we are supposedly on the cusp of finals.

Not sure moving them on would be harder, someone would always take them, it's not like they are three massive spuds. If not any that get pushed out are handy depth at Sandy and train the kid there. Clubs like the Dogs have that in their VFL. Port always carry good ex best players 22 as well.

I think that sets the clock back a few more years personally. My hope is that they all go out to the market and realise that they were over paid for too long and sign back on or at least 2 of them. Losing three players in the prime of their careers makes a massive hole and if you decide to cover them with replacements you look at guys like Matt Crouch who looks injury prone or take a risk on a guy like Brodie who probably costs your compensation and may be a bit more and probably on a similar wage.
Click to expand...

Harder from the perspective that they will all be less valuable in terms of picks as I believe they have all reached their ceiling.
 
Grav said:
So no chance we do a Marc Murphy & make him the medical sub for 3 seasons?
Click to expand...
need to make him medical sub for 4.5 years.
 
stavro#4 said:
So this seems a relevant thread.
Ratten is up in 12 months.

Click to expand...

good luck in going overseas with restricted travel out of australia
 
puppy_dog7 said:
It is a thin line, but being brave and being stupid are 2 very different things.

letting Goddard go only to use that pick on Tom Lee was the definition of stupid.

letting McEvoy go was the right decision, he played in their flags but early days they were going with Ceglar ahead of him and he he played a fair few in the VFL. We probably just wasted that pick on Dunstan. Savage was handy and could’ve been a better player in a better team.

Stanley for pick 21 was good but we wasted it on Hugh Goddard.

Port are a team that identified they weren’t going further with their list, so refreshed it by trading out Polec, Pittard, Impey, and Wingard and allowed Trengove to leave via free agency.
This allowed them to bring in Lycett and draft players like Georgiades, Butters, Rozee and Durrsma.

We need to lose something to gain something, currently we have pick 7, which I assume we’ll want to (and need to) use on a top young midfielder.

But after that We have nothing. Getting Ben King is priority number 1 in my opinion.
He’s A known quantity with clear growth potential, and most importantly he would make us the most potent forward line in the competition and a genuine contender.
But what can we offer GC for him? We need to get as many picks this year and next as we can to help get that trade over the line.
Click to expand...
www.hawthornfc.com.au

2014 Review: Ben McEvoy

When Ben McEvoy arrived at Hawthorn via the 2013 trade period, the ruckman labeled it as an exciting opportunity to play finals and achieve success but that almost didn’t eventuate.
www.hawthornfc.com.au www.hawthornfc.com.au

Too many people are seeing Ben King as the Holy grail IMO.
I can see us burning too much to land him , then having big problems elsewhere.
 

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Yawkey way said:
What I can’t understand is why are billings and Ross who have both played well coping the blame for others who haven’t. If you want to know why we loose have a look at ben long 50 games with barely a decent game among them, Kent and so on. Even butler had a really poor year but it’s oh we‘re going nowhere unless we dump Ross and billings for unders.

We need to get more talent in not ship it out, how many changes can you have without destroying a team for years. You can’t just play kids no matter how talented example gws and you can’t top up an ordinary side with older players example North. Anyway get this badly wrong and we’ll be enjoying trips to tassie to watch what’s left of our club.

Anyone happy with second and third round picks should have another look at our list, we have plenty who aren’t and nether will be best 18 that might get you that and won’t be missed.
Click to expand...
We need more Long Kent's!!
 
stavro#4 said:
The McEvoy trade has to be viewed in isolation. Not a reflection on which you pick out all the players you wished we drafted.

if the success of that trade came down to who we drafted, then it was a success to position us in that situation in the first place. The failure of the pick has so many variable that extend way past the initial deal. So if your going to judge that trade like that. Then we continue judging that trade off the Dunstan compo - if he decides to leave.

secondly there are a number of people who want Dunstan extended on this board alone. Savage was decent for a number of years.

McEvoy wasn’t going to be the difference between us winning or losing games of football. He is a poor tap ruckman. Amazing mark. We were at the start of a rebuild.
Click to expand...

Context, as always.
Can’t dump every trade etc we’ve done in one basket.
 
gringo2011 said:
It sounds as if Battle might want out this year. I think he looks awful as a wingman as well. He'd also have to improve significant amount to cover the same impact. Over all there are a lot of hopes and ifs in there, I'd rather something less risky. I think there were enough things going against us to give this side some benefit of the doubt and to try again with the side more bonded and fit and see where we go. If we don't make finals next year get serious and trade out and reload.
Click to expand...
One person said Battle wants out ,,its hardly fact
 
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