Review Qualifying Final 1, 2021 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[straighttalkin]

The hype is always with the Elimination Final winners but 8 times out of 10 the Qualifying Final winners go through to the Prelims.

Not the end of the world of course but it would be a bitter pill to swallow if we go out in straight sets this year.

I think you mean losers. Not sure about the team but last night certainly dented my confidence. Anyone got any examples of a team getting crushed in a Qualifying Final - and we were crushed - and going onto ultimate victory.

 

[M Malice]

I think you mean losers. Not sure about the team but last night certainly dented my confidence. Anyone got any examples of a team getting crushed in a Qualifying Final - and we were crushed - and going onto ultimate victory.

We crushed Richmond last season. ...........

 

[Lionheart182]

No coach is going to change the structure during finals, it makes no sense especially Fagan who plays to our system at all costs. When two of your three key forwards go down it’s always going to be tough to win.

I’m worried for next week but to be honest it’s probably a good year not to make the grand final as it’s unlikely anyone will be able to to travel to Perth to go watch it. Good year to watch a neutral game then push the chips in for 2022.

 

[brutus76]

Harris was labouring
Gardiner looked way off
Fullarton looked lost

Maybe some fresh young legs in a do or die situation would help
Joe will need to play deeper and stay there.
Froggy comes in and goes up forward - can kick goals
Neither Dogs nor Dons have super tall forward lines

OUT: McStay (Concussion), Fullarton, Gardiner, Birchall (sub next week)
IN Ah Chee, T. Berry, Lester

 

[T Rick]

I loved how clean Coleman was when the ball hit the deck in defence. Also looks very composed and uses the ball well. He is exactly what we need back there, great move by Fages and the coaches.

Agreed - really enjoying his development. I couldn't tell from the TV broadcast but who was Kiddy matched up on?

 

[dlanod]

I think you mean losers. Not sure about the team but last night certainly dented my confidence. Anyone got any examples of a team getting crushed in a Qualifying Final - and we were crushed - and going onto ultimate victory.

Yes.

AFL Tables - West Coast v Hawthorn - Fri, 11-Sep-2015 6:20 PM (8:20 PM) - Match Stats

afltables.com

then a few weeks later, against the same opponent

AFL Tables - West Coast v Hawthorn - Sat, 3-Oct-2015 2:30 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

 

[ForzaRoma]

Because 80% of Andrews beats 90% of some (no doubt some potential replacements also have niggles that they'd be playing through) and 100% of others.

Not even remotely true. 80% Andrews was the worst player on ground for our team. Fagan obviously is selecting injured players (for god whatever reason), but if we lose next week, then it's on him. It's one thing to try and bring one underdone player in, but Fagan has selected multiple of them. Gardiner is underdone. Andrews. Cockatoo is a year off returning, but Fagan rushed them all in. I honestly wish Fagan had the balls to cut these players off in the semi's, but he's too much of a nice guy and he's too stubborn to make those changes. Fagan is starting to give me a nice version of Scott vibe (from Geelong). His tactics and team inclusions make sense in the regular season, but when the finals come, he doesn't have it in him to make the tough choices and go for the risk calls. That's why we're appalling in finals and so are Geelong. Anyway, I didn't think we were good enough this year to win the flag, but given the injuries, making the top 4 was incredible. But I am starting to worry about Fagan's coaching in finals because 1-4 in finals Is a horrible record. And 1-5 is definitely looming.

 

[lionsrules]

Unfair criticism on Berry. He literally played third tall.

I feared that our teams success would akin to the dogs team between 2007-2010…. Making prelims.

my issue is our bottom 5-6 players. It seems our list is built to be injury free.
Let’s be honest we basically didn’t have McStay ….

so add McStay, Hipwood, Rayner to that side and all of a sudden it looks more formidable…. Reality check. I’m not saying the future isn’t bright. But a few smart/lucky mature recruits and we may be able to get one.

 

[ForzaRoma]

Unfair criticism on Berry. He literally played third tall.

I feared that our teams success would akin to the dogs team between 2007-2010…. Making prelims.

my issue is our bottom 5-6 players. It seems our list is built to be injury free.
Let’s be honest we basically didn’t have McStay ….

so add McStay, Hipwood, Rayner to that side and all of a sudden it looks more formidable…. Reality check. I’m not saying the future isn’t bright. But a few smart/lucky mature recruits and we may be able to get one.

I think the issue is Berry is the expectations that have come with him. His first few years gave us the impression he would become a superstar of the competition, but since then his form has dropped considerably to the point he is almost depth at this point. I like berry a lot, but I'm also saddened by how much he has regressed. I personally would keep him in next week given he wasn't the worst player out there, but I'm not going into the game expecting him to win it for us, because he isn't that player. And if he is, he hasn't shown it in years.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I think you mean losers. Not sure about the team but last night certainly dented my confidence. Anyone got any examples of a team getting crushed in a Qualifying Final - and we were crushed - and going onto ultimate victory.

Collingwood beat us in the 2003 QF and we know what happened after that.

 

[M Malice]

One thing I'm not liking about Joe is his staging and remonstrating for free kicks, just stay upright and go hard at the contest Joe and stop bloody flopping around and squealing.

 

[Nunez]

Maybe it’s being away camping speaking, but as bad as the loss was, I think we can still make the big dance from here.

We’ll get Lester in for Birchall and Ah Chee in for McStay and be back in front of our home crowd. I’d back us against both the Dogs and Bombers.

McStay will be back against Port and we’ll absolutely give it our all to win that game. As will Port. We match up well against them and think we could beat them if we play our high pressure game.

The loss v the Dees was lame, but feel it was more to do with approaching the second quarter the wrong way. Our mids setup was s**t and our backline looked like they weren’t sure whether to play close to their man or zone off and in turn did neither well. We fixed it in the third but couldn’t adapt our game well enough but not having McStay to kick to meant our mids second guessed their kicks and the Dees brilliant defence did their thing.

Kiddy Coleman was a revelation. He’s getting better and better - what a find off half back.

 

[royboys4eva]

I'm not sure Ah Chee is fit. Fagan confident about Lester not so much Ah Chee.

 

[Nunez]

I'm not sure Ah Chee is fit. Fagan confident about Lester not so much Ah Chee.

If he's not, I'd be tempted to go McFadyen. Risky debuting a player, but loves crashing packs and think he could make an impact. Always risky and don't think any player other than Ah Chee would play the role with enough experience.

 

[davemc_lions]

If he's not, I'd be tempted to go McFadyen. Risky debuting a player, but loves crashing packs and think he could make an impact. Always risky and don't think any player other than Ah Chee would play the role with enough experience.

McFadyen shows glimpse so to Blake Coleman. that is the thing not really anyone the last game I saw looked ready
Cockatoo got a game.. Ballenden probably the next likely as well as T Berry.
not having VFL games again hurts

It not like our VFL team was winning games and playing well. Injuries hit there as well we getting smashed most weeks

 

[martinson]

Maybe it’s being away camping speaking, but as bad as the loss was, I think we can still make the big dance from here.

We’ll get Lester in for Birchall and Ah Chee in for McStay and be back in front of our home crowd. I’d back us against both the Dogs and Bombers.

McStay will be back against Port and we’ll absolutely give it our all to win that game. As will Port. We match up well against them and think we could beat them if we play our high pressure game.

The loss v the Dees was lame, but feel it was more to do with approaching the second quarter the wrong way. Our mids setup was sh*t and our backline looked like they weren’t sure whether to play close to their man or zone off and in turn did neither well. We fixed it in the third but couldn’t adapt our game well enough but not having McStay to kick to meant our mids second guessed their kicks and the Dees brilliant defence did their thing.

Kiddy Coleman was a revelation. He’s getting better and better - what a find off half back.

I'll be very disappointed if we lose next week whoever we pick. The guys will come out firing I'm sure.

But I'm over playing unfit players.

 

[Zhesty]

The problem with bringing new players in, is that they wouldn't have played much recent footy at all with no seconds footy. Not the best way to come into finals intensity football. The likes of Archie and McFadyen haven't played in weeks.

 

[twhowler]

I get why you're saying it but a forward line of Daniher ,Oscar and Lester as your 3 talls wouldn't fuel dread in any opposition.

Oscar can probably ruck just about the whole game against the Dogs and I don't see the point of Archie. Fingers crossed Oscar doesn't go down.

I'm left with Ballenden to come in somewhere. McStay is out, Gardiner would need half a miracle to get up and Fullarton really struggled but I still think we'll stick with him. With Payne and Ballenden next cabs off the rank. Lester for Gardiner. Ah Chee /Dev for Cocky/Prior.

Need the talls just to compete. Oscar will do that, won’t get outmarked. Daniher more likely to do that with proper support of Oscar. Lester at least and experienced and strong body and has played forward. The fear for opposition then comes from Linc, charlie, Bailey…

 

[LIONS08]

One thing I'm not liking about Joe is his staging and remonstrating for free kicks, just stay upright and go hard at the contest Joe and stop bloody flopping around and squealing.

I think Joe gets caught up a fair bit. He isn’t a contested mark. He likes to be able to run and jump at the ball or get it on a lead. Teams know this and put a bit of early body contact on him and he just loses his balance quiet easily! Needs to be a bit stronger through the hips big Joey

 

[On the quiet]

Not even remotely true. 80% Andrews was the worst player on ground for our team. Fagan obviously is selecting injured players (for god whatever reason), but if we lose next week, then it's on him. It's one thing to try and bring one underdone player in, but Fagan has selected multiple of them. Gardiner is underdone. Andrews. Cockatoo is a year off returning, but Fagan rushed them all in. I honestly wish Fagan had the balls to cut these players off in the semi's, but he's too much of a nice guy and he's too stubborn to make those changes. Fagan is starting to give me a nice version of Scott vibe (from Geelong). His tactics and team inclusions make sense in the regular season, but when the finals come, he doesn't have it in him to make the tough choices and go for the risk calls. That's why we're appalling in finals and so are Geelong. Anyway, I didn't think we were good enough this year to win the flag, but given the injuries, making the top 4 was incredible. But I am starting to worry about Fagan's coaching in finals because 1-4 in finals Is a horrible record. And 1-5 is definitely looming.

don't disagree with some of your points regarding some potential bias, but there is a match committee so whilst Fages is ultimately responsible I think others are involved. Having not played finals for so long to come from nowhere and make the finals in 2019 was a great achievement. In 2020 we won a final and I think we can win next week at the GABBA IF the selectors make some reasonably obvious decisions.

 

[MacMum]

I think the issue is Berry is the expectations that have come with him. His first few years gave us the impression he would become a superstar of the competition, but since then his form has dropped considerably to the point he is almost depth at this point. I like berry a lot, but I'm also saddened by how much he has regressed. I personally would keep him in next week given he wasn't the worst player out there, but I'm not going into the game expecting him to win it for us, because he isn't that player. And if he is, he hasn't shown it in years.

You either dont know or have forgotten that JBerry has had illness and injury to contend with for the past 2 years. Glandular fever for a start which can take months to a couple of years to get over and his shoulder injury. Hasn't had much of a chance to just come in and be back to his best straight away..

I have no doubt he will be better for a good rest and pre season. They all will, their bodies are tired and sore, which we haven't had to contend with before.

Jarrod hasn't regressed, he is just getting over these issues, give the guy a break ..

 

[martinson]

You either dont know or have forgotten that JBerry has had illness and injury to contend with for the past 2 years. Glandular fever for a start which can take months to a couple of years to get over and his shoulder injury. Hasn't had much of a chance to just come in and be back to his best straight away..

I have no doubt he will be better for a good rest and pre season. They all will, their bodies are tired and sore, which we haven't had to contend with before.

Jarrod hasn't regressed, he is just getting over these issues, give the guy a break ..

Agree we need to give him at least another year or two before writing him off as depth.

He's probably busted his gut to get back in this year and it takes its toll.

 

[davemc_lions]

Agree we need to give him at least another year or two before writing him off as depth.

He's probably busted his gut to get back in this year and it takes its toll.

another pre season without a problem would help. Compare him to Hugh as others have done.. Clugga not missed many.
Cockatoo in the same boat.
Next year we have Rayner coming back
Hipwood out is a problem.. Like to trade in someone short term
As Fullarton, Ballenden, B Coleman, H Smith and McFayden not there now

 

[dlanod]

Collingwood beat us in the 2003 QF and we know what happened after that.

There's quite a few examples of teams losing by less than three goals in the qualifying final and then winning - us, Richmond last year, Sydney (or was it West Coast, I can never keep the order of those two straight), and at least one other IIRC.

 

[Hirsty23]

Clearly with McStay and Hipwood both unavailable next week becomes a huge back to the wall task in terms of winning a final with a fractured forward structure. This season has reeked of being one where things haven't gone our way and that continued last night. Melbourne were far too good for us last night, they exposed our lack of leg speed earlier in the season and we didn't make any adjustments on this last night which was probably the most disappointing part. So many instances where players were 10-15 metres behind their man or where they had multiple players streaming ahead of our trailing midfielders.

Not sure what the rest of the finals holds for us but beating Melbourne with the players we have fit and available seems very unlikely. Next weeks game will tell us a lot about the mentality of our team, we need to take adversity and show we have the guts and fortitude for finals footy.

Main issues that need adressing next season:
Speed, Speed, Speed - I think we've all known all season that we are too slow behind the ball to win a premiership, nudging Birchall into retirement, having Answerth available and getting games into Harry Sharp and James Madden is essential for next season.

Big bodied midfielder - We have been so unfortunate to lose Cam this season and he is the player on our list who is most built for this role. Lyons has size but is not explosive. Neale is brlliant but his style of play is not as game breaking as Petracca, Oliver, Bont, Wines, Stringer. I think having a player of that style is integral to being a genuine premiership contender.

Ruck depth - I like Big O but we need another ruck who can be competitive at AFL level incase Big O goes down but also to use as an option to move Oscar forward if we have forward line injuries. We need to trade for a ruck with afl experience, Sydney pulled off a masterstroke with Tom Hickey

31

Tom Hickey

Age

33

Ht

202cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

19.1

5star

D

4.0

1star

K

1.5

1star

HB

2.5

2star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.0

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

8.6

5star

, we need to aim for something similar.

Are we good enough right now? Probably not but we have a lot of good pieces in the 20-28 age group and a few little alterations can lead to further improvement. Next week is huge for us in building self belief as a finals team, lose next week and talk will form around our credentials as a contender. It's a huge game for our football club.