List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Ugene41]

Sier spends a lot more time in the guts. lipinski is about the 8th midfielder in line so gets put onto a forward flank a lot. I think Sier is judged harshly by the club for more than his output. His games at VFL have more than deserved a recall when we've had much more senior players spudding it up.

Lipinski has scored 2 goals this season (1 more than Sier) and averages 1 more score involvement than Sier this year in a much higher scoring team.

Again I'm don't know enough about Lipinski to judge. But you're basically buying him on potential rather than proven experience/output. And it's a position (midfield/wing) where we're not exactly lacking in terms of potential (Daicos x2, Macrae, Bianco, Reef, Poulter who will need opportunities going forward).

He's been in the system just as long as Sier for 5 years now in a side that has made a similar number of finals appearances in that time and failed to establish himself as a best 22. If we have ambitions to be a contender again I don't see how getting players that are not good enough for other contenders will help us get there. And if we're buying on potential, I'd rather players who have had less years in the system like a Dylan Stephens who might have higher upside. Prefer to walk him into the PSD over Lipinski.

 

[ClaytonM]

Exactly. Don't know why everyone seems so keen on acquiring other teams fringe players like Lipinski, Naish, Constable, Narkle etc. We literally just had to clear the decks last year and give away better quality players in Stephenson and Treloar just to save $500k-600k. Why waste $400k-500k on these sort of players when they will provide marginal additional output over our existing options and deny our young kids games. We're just going to see ourselves in another Clinton Young/Quinton Lynch/Mayne situation overpaying in salaries for average players. Much rather just pump more games into Macrae/Poulter/McCreery/Bianco/Henry.

If we have the salary cap to chase established players, I'd prefer to save it for one quality player like a Luke Parker/Matt Crouch and save the other list spots for some developing youngsters. Better yet, bank the salary cap and go hard in 2023 when the Clayton Olivers, Harry McKays, Jacob Hoppers come up for free agency and we're actually in a position to be contending for finals.

The only exception I would make would be if it was a KPF/KPD like a Weideman/Schache/Talia as we're clearly lacking depth in those areas. But only if we don't have to give up any draft picks higher than a future fourth for them.

We do need to have a minimum number on the list.

We already have plenty of kids and will add a few more this year. While Daicos is top end, with the picks we have I think you have to question the quality of the others we bring in.

I see value in Josh Thomas out, Naish in (or other similar). He comes free, will be on minimum chips, and has more chance of providing upside in the longer term.

With the list age profile, salary cap limitations, and draft picks we have, cheap fringe 22 players from other clubs is all we can do this trade period. We can only trade for top talent if we lose top talent.

 

[gtrain23]

Agree, greener pastures ahead

everyone in here should be over the moon
Was a lot of people called for heads to roll and they did

Eddie Bucks Harvey Sanderson

now we have premiership pedigree coach and if rumours are true and Co

GW flags Key Forward and contested ball as needs
Get #1-#3 pick in daicos

 

[Jen2310]

Just listened to Wright's interview, and does sound like they hope to get a player or two in the trade, but they'd need to be creative.

In terms of being quiet, he was referring to not clogging up the headlines like we did last trade period.

 

[Horaceg]

Just listened to Wright's interview, and does sound like they hope to get a player or two in the trade, but they'd need to be creative.

In terms of being quiet, he was referring to not clogging up the headlines like we did last trade period.

Stay out of the headlines, get the work done.

 

[Ugene41]

We do need to have a minimum number on the list.

We already have plenty of kids and will add a few more this year. While Daicos is top end, with the picks we have I think you have to question the quality of the others we bring in.

I see value in Josh Thomas out, Naish in (or other similar). He comes free, will be on minimum chips, and has more chance of providing upside in the longer term.

With the list age profile, salary cap limitations, and draft picks we have, cheap fringe 22 players from other clubs is all we can do this trade period. We can only trade for top talent if we lose top talent.

Look agree we need to pick some recycled players up. But we should be targeting recycled players in a position of need where we don't have enough young players with potential such as KPP so that we can replace the likes of Madgen. Target Talia/Weideman/Schache/Kreuger for cheap etc.

Naish is rubbish as multiple Tigers supporters have told us. Why bring him in when posters have consistently called for the likes of Josh Thomas/C.Brown etc to be left out of the side the Biancos/Ginnivans/Macraes get more opportunity. Would you honestly prefer having Naish in our best 22 over our recent draftees? He'll just become a whipping boy.

 

[Apex36]

People need to get the notion that we’ll be after Naish again just because we did last year out of their heads. 12 months ago we had Ned Guy as the list manager, heavily influenced by Hine. Now we have Wright in control, who by the sound of it has a fundamentally different approach to list management, and is very experienced in identifying opposition players who can actually add value.

Now we might end up picking him up, who knows? But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he wasn’t on our radar at all anymore with new blood in charge.

 

[Jen2310]

People need to get the notion that we’ll be after Naish again just because we did last year out of their heads. 12 months ago we had Ned Guy as the list manager, heavily influenced by Hine. Now we have Wright in control, who by the sound of it has a fundamentally different approach to list management, and is very experienced in identifying opposition players who can actually add value.

Now we might end up picking him up, who knows? But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he wasn’t on our radar at all anymore with new blood in charge.

That's very possible. I imagine McRae will have an input? He did coach him, so whether they decide he is someone we would be after, or not. Could totally just overlook him. Or we could get him. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[Obeanie1]

People need to get the notion that we’ll be after Naish again just because we did last year out of their heads. 12 months ago we had Ned Guy as the list manager, heavily influenced by Hine. Now we have Wright in control, who by the sound of it has a fundamentally different approach to list management, and is very experienced in identifying opposition players who can actually add value.

Now we might end up picking him up, who knows? But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he wasn’t on our radar at all anymore with new blood in charge.

Regarding any players coming in this year the Pies will be restricted simply because they have few picks to trade with. So a player like Naish who costs nothing would come up in discussions as would free agents. This year more so than usual. Matt Crouch, Chol, Hewett.

Any updates on Ruscoe? Ive been away, he is out of contract I believe.

What would be fair?

 

[Robroy22]

I couldn’t agree more re him not being as bad as that one poster said. His 2018 tracked every bit as well as JDG’s, but since then he’s struggled to recapture that form due to his lack of pace.

IMO, he’s a better option than Dunstan or Crouch if we’re looking to fill that inside mid role (anyone doubting me watch the replay of the Pies v Tiges VFL match he was dominant) because we could get him as a rookie. The real question though is whether you want him potentially taking minutes from Macrae or McInnes. Basically I’m a no, but if the club pursued him I’d be fine with it and one thing is certain he’s a much better option than Naish!

Was involved quite a bit with Josh in his Geelong days and apart from his on-field qualities (he's an old fashioned hard nut mid that's been forced to play forward because of the mids he's been behind at both Geelong and Rich), he's a really quick thinking and rational person to have in a team. He's selfless and supportive of team mates and would, to my mind, help protect our young mids for a season or two till they grow into their permanent roles. If he's cheap, snap him up.

 

[ClaytonM]

Would you honestly prefer having Naish in our best 22 over our recent draftees? He'll just become a whipping boy.

In the long term no, but we can’t play all of the kids at once and need more mature players around them. Do you honestly want that mature player to be Thomas or is it better to take a punt on another option who costs nothing?

As for KPFs,if they are not top quality I don’t think I would bother. Another Jesse White is not helpful. That is all you will get for little cost. Weids unlikely to come cheap.

 

[Ugene41]

In the long term no, but we can’t play all of the kids at once and need more mature players around them. Do you honestly want that mature player to be Thomas or is it better to take a punt on another option who costs nothing?

As for KPFs,if they are not top quality I don’t think I would bother. Another Jesse White is not helpful. That is all you will get for little cost. Weids unlikely to come cheap.

I would honestly prefer that mature player to be Thomas over Naish. He's hardly a mature experienced head either. He has 9 games of experience and was drafted in the same year as Murphy who's now played more games than him. Do we think of Murphy as a mature player?

Also you name Jesse White as not useful but what if Naish is another Tony Armstrong (which he mostly likely projects to be)? That's not very useful either. Weideman should be the value of what Peter Wright went for last year (future 4th) or walk him to the PSD. If he's expensive then pass on him and pick up DFA Daniel Talia if we want that mature body. 1 year older than Madgen and a much better experienced head in the backline in a position we clearly lack depth.

 

[JLC]

That's very possible. I imagine McRae will have an input? He did coach him, so whether they decide he is someone we would be after, or not. Could totally just overlook him. Or we could get him. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

I think it is very possible. If you go and read some of the VFL reports from 2019 when McRae was coaching, he described Naish and his performance as half back, wingman with an ability to transition. That would fit our needs very well. But perhaps VFL is his ceiling?

I don’t know enough to have a strong preference either way but will trust McRae.

 

[Silky23]

I was trying to find those games of his and then realised they're from 2019. I mean Sier has similar games if we take his sample size from a few years ago and prior to this year he was also competing for a spot in one of the best and deepest midfields.

I'm not totally against Lipinski. Just haven't really seen him play. Has anyone got recent AFL highlights of him? (Not the VFL highlights as Sier is also a star in the VFL and even Rantall racks up 30 touches pretty consistently). Just wondering how much posters who are pushing hard for him have actually seen him play?

His stats this year are basically the same as Siers. Played 11 games vs 7 and averages the same disposals but less clearances and contested posessions. Did he have a bunch of games where he was injured or a sub like Sier?

Just how comfortable are we offering Lipinski a 3 year contract that wouldn't be on peanuts? Would we be comfortable to do the same for Sier if they both have a similar potential and output?

To be fair, Sier is just average as hell, has had ample opportunities but he’s not fit enough and he isn’t in the right head space to be an AFL footballer.
As stated in my post, Lipinski is about 8/9th in line for a rotation spot into that midfield. It’s the deepest in the league by far. He’s had 3 sub games this year and the games he’s played he’s basically lined up on a forward flank, where you chuck the extra mids to field a position. I also just read your follow up post - you can’t blame him for net getting games as a midfielder when they have a HOF mid already in Bont,
some of the best clearance and CP guys in Libba Macrae and Dunks, supplemented by our best mid we traded in Treloar with Hunter and a top 5 talent in a super draft - Bailey Smith. For Treloar to probably be the dogs 5th best mid tells you where they are at compared to where we are with our midfield brigade.

And if we are basing this on potential, Lipinski was taken a year later than Sier and earlier in the draft, and hasnt shown attitude problems or lack of effort and application that Sier has. Sier played 7 games this year when we had most of our midfield out, that basically says where he’s at with his career - the crossroads.

I think it’s a no brainer who we chase and get rid of.

 

[Scodog10]

In the long term no, but we can’t play all of the kids at once and need more mature players around them. Do you honestly want that mature player to be Thomas or is it better to take a punt on another option who costs nothing?

As for KPFs,if they are not top quality I don’t think I would bother. Another Jesse White is not helpful. That is all you will get for little cost. Weids unlikely to come cheap.

Naish is still on topic, yeah? He’s not a mature body.

Was involved quite a bit with Josh in his Geelong days and apart from his on-field qualities (he's an old fashioned hard nut mid that's been forced to play forward because of the mids he's been behind at both Geelong and Rich), he's a really quick thinking and rational person to have in a team. He's selfless and supportive of team mates and would, to my mind, help protect our young mids for a season or two till they grow into their permanent roles. If he's cheap, snap him up.

I’m sold then because Motlop and his groin aside your Geelong word is as good as it gets on here. With Greenwood going out as well at the very least he’ll be good on the training track.

 

[Jen2310]

I think it is very possible. If you go and read some of the VFL reports from 2019 when McRae was coaching, he described Naish and his performance as half back, wingman with an ability to transition. That would fit our needs very well. But perhaps VFL is his ceiling?

I don’t know enough to have a strong preference either way but will trust McRae.

Yeah, lets put our faith in him and wright, they'll know who to or not to target.

 

[unplugged]

Regarding any players coming in this year the Pies will be restricted simply because they have few picks to trade with. So a player like Naish who costs nothing would come up in discussions as would free agents. This year more so than usual. Matt Crouch, Chol, Hewett.

Any updates on Ruscoe? Ive been away, he is out of contract I believe.

What would be fair?

Eh, pick 36 will do!

 

[PREETY_FLY]

Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

seems to think hes worth alot if you believe what the media is saying.

 

[Countrypie]

Matt Crouch seems to think hes worth alot if you believe what the media is saying.

I know where he can get a nice padded cell, while he works through that delusion

 

[Silky23]

Don't think anybody would baulk at having an opportunity to get Titch, so not sure why anyone would be uninterested in a much cheaper Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

who does the exact same thing.

Would just have to hope he's over the lingering groin issue and he comes for not much in trade capital.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[unplugged]

Matt Crouch seems to think hes worth alot if you believe what the media is saying.

He's better than his brother and his brother got that Gubby money.

 

[TakingThePies]

Regarding any players coming in this year the Pies will be restricted simply because they have few picks to trade with. So a player like Naish who costs nothing would come up in discussions as would free agents. This year more so than usual. Matt Crouch, Chol, Hewett.

Any updates on Ruscoe? Ive been away, he is out of contract I believe.

What would be fair?

Jarrod Cameron would be nice, or a Brander. I don't know, I think the club will sign majority of these types on the list to 1 year deals for McRae to see a bit of.

 

[MoreMoore]

Moore or Krueger?

Krueger

 

[Soups]

Garner over Grundy. Ouch