List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Mego Red]

While we're being pedantic, any danger of spelling HimmelbErg's name right ever?
(Worrell too.)

LOL - fair enough.

 

[StickerMan]

In terms of this trade, is it too much to pay for Dawson to swap our pick 4 with their pick 12 and Dawson?



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I'd do it. By all reports there is some depth from the first couple of picks so we would still get a decent player at 12 and Dawson is a jet.

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[Scorpus]

On AFL Exchange the hosts suggested that a 31-year-old Patrick Dangerfield would be worth between pick 10 and 15 on the open market right now

For reference we received pick 9 and 28 for him when he was 25

 

[Mego Red]

Yep. They rate him enough to give him multiple games up forward even when he sucked, they obviously like him to some extent and I reckon they would want to experiment more with him in defence.

The player I can see leaving that is contracted is McAsey if he's truly homesick. Would hopefully get us a decent pick and we aren't paying out his contract. The fact we moved him up forward and have developed Frampton in his role says a lot.

Yeah, I actually think McAsey may do a Schache.

 

[Mego Red]

Himmelberg showed more in the last month than Frampton did all year, and Worrell was re-signed this year.

If they do decide to cut a contracted player, then Frampton is clearly the obvious choice.

I'm not going to argue it any further.

Frampton showed excellent promise down back and was preferred at the end of the year, as much as this board hated it.

Himmelberg was given some charity games and was incosistent, showing glimpses of what he had showed a year before. It was pretty much a wasted year for him, but hopefully the glimpses might gather some interest from another club.

 

[Mutineer]

Yeah, I actually think McAsey may do a Schache.

That can have 2 meanings? Want home or not live up to his draft position.
The latter likely the favourite currently?

 

[jackster83]

Billy vs Moran vs Downsborough is a close race imho

Throw in Sellar to complete the set.

 

[skam85]

Billy is 10 times the forward Moran was.

Moran's stats are pretty disgusting but to be fair he only went 7 games without kicking a goal

 

[Mego Red]

I know we have had high turnover, but my point is that we never seem to do it until way too late, or people elect to retire or leave when we have offered them a contract that they could accept if they wanted.


2018

Kyle Cheney (del)
Harry Dear (del)
Jackson Edwards (del)
Sam Gibson (ret)
Curtly Hampton (ret)
Paul Hunter (del)
Ben Jarman (del)
Mitch McGovern (trd)
Matthew Signorello (del)

2019
Eddie Betts (trd)
Richard Douglas (del)
Cam Ellis-Yolmen (FA)
Hugh Greenwood (trd)
Paul Hunter (del)
Sam Jacobs (trd)
Josh Jenkins (trd)
Alex Keath (trd)
Andy Otten (ret)

2020
Rory Atkins (FA)
Ben Crocker (del)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Jordan Gallucci (del)
Bryce Gibbs (ret)
Kyle Hartigan (trd)
Riley Knight (del)
Myles Poholke (del)
Tyson Stengle (del)
Ayce Taylor (del)
Patrick Wilson (del)

Very few of those cut in the last few years seem to have been pushed. Those cut were generally rookies. Gallucci is probably one of few that were a mildly 'tough' call. The cuts are more picking up fallen leaves than aggressive pruning to encourage future growth.

We don't seem to "show anyone the door". We assume they know where it is and they'll let us know when they want to walk through it.

If we go to the draft with minimum live picks and a full rookie list and be unable to trade in players, that imo, is a massive fail in a rebuild.

I think we've pretty much pushed out everyone who left.

I'm sure the narrative to the media was that we were interested in keeping Mackay, but it doesn't actually make much sense.

 

[Mego Red]

On AFL Exchange the hosts suggested that a 31-year-old Patrick Dangerfield would be worth between pick 10 and 15 on the open market right now

For reference we received pick 9 and 28 for him when he was 25

They were saying that Neale was worth two firsts, as a 29 year old.

Just massive naivity - you pay people on what they WILL do, not what they have done. Danger has maybe 30 good games left in him, and Neale has maybe 50. THAT'S their price.

 

[Mego Red]

That can have 2 meanings? Want home or not live up to his draft position.
The latter likely the favourite currently?

I meant re-sign after his roiokie contract, and still end up being traded the same year.

But I guess it could go a few ways ...

 

[DJ75]

In terms of this trade, is it too much to pay for Dawson to swap our pick 4 with their pick 12 and Dawson?



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Add in Stephens and our 3rd round pick and we might have a deal...

 

[Vader]

Frampton showed excellent promise down back and was preferred at the end of the year, as much as this board hated it.

"Excellent promise" is stretching things more than just a little bit. I can only assume "preferred at the end of the year" means that they preferred to have him in defence, because he was worse than incompetent when playing as a forward - you certainly can't mean that he was preferred ahead of Murray.

He was decent in defence, certainly a massive improvement on his forward line output. However, with Murray, Worrell & McAsey all looking for the same position, there's no pressing reason for retaining him as a tall defender.

Himmelberg was given some charity games and was incosistent, showing glimpses of what he had showed a year before. It was pretty much a wasted year for him, but hopefully the glimpses might gather some interest from another club.

I agree it was a wasted season for Himmelberg. Why it took him until R18 before he started delivering on what we saw in 2020 is entirely beyond me. However, what he showed from R18-21 (he was injured in R22) was more than Frampton showed, at either end of the field, for the entire season. Himmelberg is clearly the better footballer of the pair - he just needs to pull his finger out more often, or he risks being placed on the scrapheap as he was at the start of the season.

As for "interest from another club", you really need to put the Playstation controller down. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Rags_118]

Throw in Sellar to complete the set.

Add in Brett Chalmers, Lewis Johnston and perhaps the worst of all in Evan Hewitt. Maybe Daniel Schell just misses out.

 

[Bearded Clam]

"Excellent promise" is stretching things more than just a little bit. I can only assume "preferred at the end of the year" means that they preferred to have him in defence, because he was worse than incompetent when playing as a forward - you certainly can't mean that he was preferred ahead of Murray.

He was decent in defence, certainly a massive improvement on his forward line output. However, with Murray, Worrell & McAsey all looking for the same position, there's no pressing reason for retaining him as a tall defender.

I agree it was a wasted season for Himmelberg. Why it took him until R18 before he started delivering on what we saw in 2020 is entirely beyond me. However, what he showed from R18-21 (he was injured in R22) was more than Frampton showed, at either end of the field, for the entire season. Himmelberg is clearly the better footballer of the pair - he just needs to pull his finger out more often, or he risks being placed on the scrapheap as he was at the start of the season.

As for "interest from another club", you really need to put the Playstation controller down. He's not going anywhere.

Nup… himm is shit.. has always been and will always be.

Neither himm or frampton should be given new contracts when their current ones expire.

We need to find better options than those two.

 

[Mego Red]

As for "interest from another club", you really need to put the Playstation controller down. He's not going anywhere.

I know you love the boomer humour of "PlayStation trade" (though I don't know what game you're talking about) - but of our current list, a contracted key forward who has shown bursts of promise and who is from interstate with a brother playing for a different team seems a reasonably possible player to be traded.

 

[Velvet George]

No, Frampton has been very good at the lower levels, and worked well in defense when given the opportunity. The club continually turned to him to give opportunities at the higher level, which shows that they rate him. Even if he's whipping boy on here.

Himmelburg offered nothing all year in the SANFL and didn't deserve a call up, having wasted the fact that he ended 2020 as first 18. Showed inconsistent bursts of promise in the AFL, which is hopefully enough to get the trade offer.

Worrell has others selected over him multiple times through the year, so you would have to have some suspicions about where he stands in the pecking order. Personally, I would definitely keep him, but if we're talking contracted players on our list who may be at risk, you CERTAINLY have to look to the players who have been constantly overlooked.

I hope that passes as self-reflection for you.

It is self-reflection but it doesn't mean your opinions are solid and can not interpreted as dumb.

The club gave Frampton opportunities as a forward at AFL level and he sucked at it, despite his dominating SANFL form. Himmelberg's SANFL form sucked but he showed a lot more up forward in the AFL than Frampton did. Which is better a better form line to base the merits of an AFL career? How many games did Frampton go without kicking a goal? Compare that to Himmlbergs AFL output. The club gave Frampton games down back as they've given up on him as a forward and he did ok, no better than what Himmelberg did up forward despite the much easier role.

I am not saying the club will move on either, just questioning your assessment of both players and criticising others opinions as dumb.

As for Worrell, a young player signed up for 2 years during the year. If we were going to trade away young players who haven't received games when its been warranted we would have very little kids left.

 

[Cap]

so, Ive already come to grips with the fact we won't get anyone this off season.

but how are we getting outbid by Port on salary or even years? what on earth is wrong with our list management if that is the case?

 

[Cap]

Nup… himm is sh*t.. has always been and will always be.

Neither himm or frampton should be given new contracts when their current ones expire.

We need to find better options than those two.

The sad reality of a Crows supporter is we are used to having the club persist with players beyond what most would.

I'm trying to think, over the last 20 years I've followed the Crows I really can't think of a player that the strategy paid off.

CEY maybe?

 

[Vader]

The sad reality of a Crows supporter is we are used to having the club persist with players beyond what most would.

I'm trying to think, over the last 20 years I've followed the Crows I really can't think of a player that the strategy paid off.

CEY maybe?

On the whole I agree with you - but CEY? Really?

Having said that, they really have cut away the dead wood extremely vigorously in the last few years. Kelly is probably the only player you'd put in this category now - and he's been a regular in our best 22 for several years, and finished top-10 in the B&F this year. He's no Riley Knight or CEY, spending years playing in the SANFL, without ever threatening to become a regular member of the best 22.

Historically, this has definitely been a major issue. However, it's not an easy accusation to level at the club in 2021.

 

[Cap]

On the whole I agree with you - but CEY? Really?

Having said that, they really have cut away the dead wood extremely vigorously in the last few years. Kelly is probably the only player you'd put in this category now - and he's been a regular in our best 22 for several years, and finished top-10 in the B&F this year. He's no Riley Knight or CEY, spending years playing in the SANFL, without ever threatening to become a regular member of the best 22.

Historically, this has definitely been a major issue. However, it's not an easy accusation to level at the club in 2021.

but yes they are improving, however if we are still struggling to find cap space to lure talent then perhaps it is not 100% fixed.

Sure we have a young list, but you could make tough calls on players if it means getting high end talent.

 

[Golumless]

so, Ive already come to grips with the fact we won't get anyone this off season.

but how are we getting outbid by Port on salary or even years? what on earth is wrong with our list management if that is the case?

Cross that bridge when it happens.

Though of course, due to our situation, it's certainly possible that we could outbid Port with both and still lose out to a player. After all, you're more likely to have a shot at a premiership at Port then here as it stands.

 

[Mego Red]

but yes they are improving, however if we are still struggling to find cap space to lure talent then perhaps it is not 100% fixed.

Sure we have a young list, but you could make tough calls on players if it means getting high end talent.

Every report on the club's salary cap is that we have stacks of room. Who says we don't have cap space?

 

[Amacca 23]

Every report on the club's salary cap is that we have stacks of room. Who says we don't have cap space?

The whingers do

 

[UcantCme]

so, Ive already come to grips with the fact we won't get anyone this off season.

but how are we getting outbid by Port on salary or even years? what on earth is wrong with our list management if that is the case?

If we get out bid by Port its not because we don't have cap space, it will be more of a case if drawing a line in the sand on what we are willing to pay

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