Recommitted Ben King [contracted and staying at Gold Coast]

[Ducky Tie]

I never assumed Ben king would reach max kings level of marking but purely said that he would improve as he matured.

my initial post was a genuine question for saints fans as I haven’t seen much of max.

I have an idea of how Ben could reach superstar forward as I’ve seen him play a lot. I don’t know how that looks for max, purely as I haven’t seen him as much,

Where do you see his improvement coming?
Seem like the guy who will just be a dominant aerially, or has he shown glimpses of other attributes - eg does he have scope to be a inside f50 ruckman ala Hawkins, can he just play close to goals or also get up the ground. Is he dangerous with ball on ground or goes out of the game a bit?

All genuine questions. Not trying to make it a pissing contest.

Yeah that's fair. Max is the first player in over fifteen years at the Saints who I'm confident will be a genuine star. His contested marking looks like being an enormous weapon. He's top five in the comp this year and I think he will significantly improve still in that area. At the moment he looks great when he has a run and leap, but still gets out muscled by stronger opponents. As he gets older, he'll put on more size and be better in the wrestle. He's also got plenty of improvement in his aerobic game. As he gets more pre-seasons under his belt, I expect he'll develop his endurance and more take more uncontested marks up the ground. Re his groundball game, he is fantastic below his knees for someone of his size.

It's more the glimpses/quarters here or there turning into consistent footy that will be the main improvement though I think. He had quarters this year where he looked totally dominant against quality KPDs but wouldn't turn it into a full game. His back end to the season was really encouraging though. 24 goals and 28 contested marks in his last nine games. Even without any improvement, if he can produce that form over 22 weeks it's an AA season.

 

[Minga]

Yeah that's fair. Max is the first player in over fifteen years at the Saints who I'm confident will be a genuine star. His contested marking looks like being an enormous weapon. He's top five in the comp this year and I think he will significantly improve still in that area. At the moment he looks great when he has a run and leap, but still gets out muscled by stronger opponents. As he gets older, he'll put on more size and be better in the wrestle. He's also got plenty of improvement in his aerobic game. As he gets more pre-seasons under his belt, I expect he'll develop his endurance and more take more uncontested marks up the ground. Re his groundball game, he is fantastic below his knees for someone of his size.

It's more the glimpses/quarters here or there turning into consistent footy that will be the main improvement though I think. He had quarters this year where he looked totally dominant against quality KPDs but wouldn't turn it into a full game. His back end to the season was really encouraging though. 24 goals and 28 contested marks in his last nine games. Even without any improvement, if he can produce that form over 22 weeks it's an AA season.

All true. Every now and then he’ll do something crazy for his size though. Like crumb the ball, break a line and take a freak shot on goal. Some of the crazier ones only scored a behind so they didn’t hit the highlight reels but there’s real potential there. The main thing is the aerial ability and bringing the ball to ground/taking the best defender. His second half of the year was nuts, especially after he started hitting the scoreboard more often. I’m aware that as a Saints fan this is just gonna appear super biased but seriously, he’s backing up the hype thus far.

 

[Ceanag]

Why did Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

not crack top 10 in GC b&f ??

 

[Jen2310]

Why did Ben King not crack top 10 in GC b&f ??

I don't imagine forwards poll usually high. Especially being low possession players.

 

[Lore]

I don't imagine forwards poll usually high. Especially being low possession players.

We don’t usually have that problem at Essendon as all of our players who play are rated out of five by each coach for a maximum of 30 votes per game each. Ridley won it from halfback last year, Daniher was runner up a couple of years ago etc.

It would probably depend on the voting system whether it favours midfielders or is genuinely open to anyone.

 

[Jen2310]

We don’t usually have that problem at Essendon as all of our players who play are rated out of five by each coach for a maximum of 30 votes per game each. Ridley won it from halfback last year, Daniher was runner up a couple of years ago etc.

It would probably depend on the voting system whether it favours midfielders or is genuinely open to anyone.

Yeah, looks like... " awarding each player a maximum of 10 votes after each match, for a maximum of 40 votes for any match. "

Hard to really argue too much with this though.
2021 Club Champion Top 10

1st: Touk Miller (562)
2nd: Wil Powell (396)
3rd: David Swallow (352)
4th: Sam Collins (350)
5th: Charlie Ballard (299)
6th: Brandon Ellis (287)
7th: Sean Lemmens (281)
8th: Noah Anderson (270)
9th: Nick Holman (262)
10th: Jack Lukosius (254)

 

[The Kings Ransom]

Why did Ben King not crack top 10 in GC b&f ??

He was 10th at round 17 update I think, so probably finished just out of it.

Looking at his stats i'd say he polled well in a handful of games, polled ok in a few rounds, polled very little in probably 7-8 games.

Key to finishing top 10 is to be consistent - polling decently even in the quiet games.

 

[Jen2310]

Was 10th at the end of round 20..

Then went goalless for round 21 and round 22.

So would have just fallen out. Unlucky. Thats footy

 

[The_Steadier]

he is fantastic below his knees for someone of his size.

As objective as I can be, my view is that max is fantastic below his kness for someone of ANY size.

Much like how a guy like goldstein for instance isn't just a good kick 'for a guy his size', but just a good kick fullstop.... same with max at ground level.

Max is genuinely as agile, quick and skilled at ground level by hand than guys like dan butler or jack higgins or any other small forward.

Once he builds a proper AFL level tank and body, his marking will make him a star- but his groundwork is what will make him a superstar.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Evidently you haven't watched much of Ben

I haven’t watched much of Ben, but I’d certainly be curious as to which of his games you consider to be equivalent to Max’s 8 contested mark, 6 goal (apparently the first time anyone has done that double this century), 10 coaches votes (in a losing team) game from late in the year.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I haven’t watched much of Ben, but I’d certainly be curious as to which of his games you consider to be equivalent to Max’s 8 contested mark, 6 goal (apparently the first time anyone has done that double this century), 10 coaches votes (in a losing team) game from late in the year.

No point comparing stats since it doesn't mean a huge amount and they each have different play styles, but I thought Ben's games against Sydney and Hawthorn this year were outstanding. Max is arguably the higher ceiling player, while I'd say Ben is more consistent, but there's really not much between them at this stage. To suggest Ben hasn't hit the levels of Max just tells me the other poster is either clouded by bias, or isn't watching Ben play

 

[aussierulesrules]

I watched Max King live when we played the saints and I watched Ben King live when we played the suns.

We obviously had our way with both teams and it was pretty difficult to notice much of a difference between the two. Ben King is probably slightly ahead but he should be as he's played more football.

Max was at the lowest of the low from a form and confidence perspective that night. Both were absolutely in the toilet, and you could see he had the weight of the world on his shoulders.

I still remember when he missed a shot for goal late in that game from long range on the flank and that whole wing/side of the ground we were on gave him an enormous Bronx cheer.

Ben has never had to face anywhere near the scrutiny and pressure Max has had to deal with, playing off-Broadway up there on the Gold Coast, and never having been through a significant form slump.

Comparing Max from that part of the season to the Max that was ripping teams new a-holes late in the year is like comparing night and day.

 

[aussierulesrules]

No point comparing stats since it doesn't mean a huge amount and they each have different play styles, but I thought Ben's games against Sydney and Hawthorn this year were outstanding. Max is arguably the higher ceiling player, while I'd say Ben is more consistent, but there's really not much between them at this stage. To suggest Ben hasn't hit the levels of Max just tells me the other poster is either clouded by bias, or isn't watching Ben play

Disagree. It’s not just about stats, Max was neigh-on unstoppable in that game against West Coast and then against Geelong he was destroying them single-handedly until he pinged his groin late in that first quarter. Was well on track for an even better game than the West Coast one.

In less than a quarter he took 5 marks (3 contested), kicked 2.2, had 2 goal assists and 3 inside-50’s. Was just monstering them.

And we lost both games, so it’s not like we were some super-dominant team who were serving it up to him on a platter.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

Disagree. It’s not just about stats, Max was neigh-on unstoppable in that game against West Coast and then against Geelong he was destroying them single-handedly until he pinged his groin late in that first quarter. Was well on track for an even better game than the West Coast one.

In less than a quarter he took 5 marks (3 contested), kicked 2.2, had 2 goal assists and 3 inside-50’s. Was just monstering them.

And we lost both games, so it’s not like we were some super-dominant team who were serving it up to him on a platter.

Regardless of what Max is doing, I’ll be happy to have a forward on my team that will kick his 2-4 goals each week.

Suns get a bit of assistance in the forward line for him and Ben will continue to improve.

a 60-80 goal a year forward for 7-8 years is very possible.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I never assumed Ben king would reach max kings level of marking but purely said that he would improve as he matured.

my initial post was a genuine question for saints fans as I haven’t seen much of max.

I have an idea of how Ben could reach superstar forward as I’ve seen him play a lot. I don’t know how that looks for max, purely as I haven’t seen him as much,

Where do you see his improvement coming?
Seem like the guy who will just be a dominant aerially, or has he shown glimpses of other attributes - eg does he have scope to be a inside f50 ruckman ala Hawkins, can he just play close to goals or also get up the ground. Is he dangerous with ball on ground or goes out of the game a bit?

All genuine questions. Not trying to make it a pissing contest.

You can see for yourself right here if you like.



Does it in the air, took multiple one-handed contested marks, is ridiculously good at ground level and has terrific hands (played midfield in the juniors until he had a massive growth spurt, and it shows), can push up to the wings and clunk contested pack marks, and can of course do it on the lead.

Although our gameplan generally involved bombing it long and deep on his head, so he typically wasn’t able to show that leading side of his game as much as most of us who follow St Kilda would have liked.

We didn’t do him too many favours until late in the year, when it finally seemed to dawn on us that it might be a good idea to put it out in front of him, and let him get a run and jump at it. Once we started doing that a lot more regularly it’s like he came to life. We actually gave him a chance to do his thing.

 

[Jirik13]

You can see for yourself right here if you like.



Does it in the air, took multiple one-handed contested marks, is ridiculously good at ground level and has terrific hands (played midfield in the juniors until he had a massive growth spurt, and it shows), can push up to the wings and clunk contested pack marks, and can of course do it on the lead.

Although our gameplan generally involved bombing it long and deep on his head, so he typically wasn’t able to show that leading side of his game as much as most of us who follow St Kilda would have liked.

We didn’t do him too many favours until late in the year, when it finally seemed to dawn on us that it might be a good idea to put it out in front of him, and let him get a run and jump at it. Once we started doing that a lot more regularly it’s like he came to life. We actually gave him a chance to do his thing.

This is Ben King thread. Not sure what you're trying to say. That Max is better than Ben? Both are exceptional talents. If it makes you feel better showing Max highlights - OK, I get it. There are Ben highlights too. Then there are lowly games by Max/Ben too.

 

[aussierulesrules]

This is Ben King thread. Not sure what you're trying to say. That Max is better than Ben? Both are exceptional talents. If it makes you feel better showing Max highlights - OK, I get it. There are Ben highlights too. Then there are lowly games by Max/Ben too.

Lol. Diddums. Not sure what I’m trying to say?

Then maybe before responding to me and having a sook, it might in future pay you to, I don’t know, how about actually read the post I was responding to? Just a crazy idea.

Because here’s the thing. I was talking to someone else, not to you, and not just making a general comment to no-one, and was responding to the following questions:

my initial post was a genuine question for saints fans as I haven’t seen much of max.

He asked a “genuine question” to “Saints fans” (me being one of them) and as is customary when someone asks a question, someone else will typically answer it.

I have an idea of how Ben could reach superstar forward as I’ve seen him play a lot. I don’t know how that looks for max, purely as I haven’t seen him as much

Hence posting the video, so that he can literally see for himself if he really wants to know. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t have to, it’s not that hard. Or big of a deal.

Where do you see his improvement coming?
Seem like the guy who will just be a dominant aerially, or has he shown glimpses of other attributes - eg does he have scope to be a inside f50 ruckman ala Hawkins, can he just play close to goals or also get up the ground. Is he dangerous with ball on ground or goes out of the game a bit?

Asked and answered.

I didn’t start the Max talk Jirik13, so maybe if you want to have a cry, go and direct it to those who did.

Rather than interrupting a conversation between two other people to ask questions that you could have answered yourself, by simply reading the post they were responding to. Or jumping to conclusions based on guesses, when you didn’t need to guess at all.

 

[Astro35]

So what are the chances that Max walks to the suns? That would be great to see

 

[Ceanag]

So what are the chances that Max walks to the suns? That would be great to see

Why would you even post such drivel ......

 

[Mat Mann]

So what are the chances that Max walks to the suns? That would be great to see

Locked and loaded: Saints young gun Max King pens long-term extension

Locked and loaded: Saints young gun pens long-term extension

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[schmuttt]

Saints would be best off trading for him next year rather than this year surely? At least next year he will be out of contract.

 

[Ash1337]

If ben king

34

Ben King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

ever moves to saints can they actually play together? While 1 is a contested mark & the other a lead up I still dont think when together that they'll be formable. Also Ben wont move to saints to play in defense if he's enjoying his time being a forward. I feel the king brothers have a bit of a competitiveness against each other playing in the same team would be a hindrance more than a benefit.

 

[The_Steadier]

So what are the chances that Max walks to the suns? That would be great to see

Suns should have drafted them both with picks 2 and 3.

I'm fully entitled to say this because predraft i didn't shut up on big footy about that being exactly what they should do in light of their systemic player retention issues and the fact that they were both objectively in the ballpark to be worthy of being such high picks.

I said it at the time, idiotic move by the suns to (after jaeger lynch etc) continuing to do the same thing and draft solely on best available and pay zero consideration to compromising a teeny bit on potential talent in order to improve the odds of retaining players.

 

[staffonly]

If ben king ever moves to saints can they actually play together? While 1 is a contested mark & the other a lead up I still dont think when together that they'll be formable. Also Ben wont move to saints to play in defense if he's enjoying his time being a forward. I feel the king brothers have a bit of a competitiveness against each other playing in the same team would be a hindrance more than a benefit.

Who’s to say Ben wouldn’t prefer playing key back. Played his juniors there.

 

[The_Steadier]

So what are the chances that Max walks to the suns? That would be great to see

Will happen when we merge with them.

#ifyoucan'tlaughatyourselfthenwhocanyoulaughat