Who is the true goat in Tennis ?

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Dipper said:
I'd say it's hard to proclaim anybody GOAT who has a losing record against their two biggest rivals.

Laver was insane and if he hadn't gone to world team tennis he'd have set a record for all time but its hard to go past Djokovic now.

Borg is the interesting one, partly because he retired age 25 but also he won French 6 times largely overlapping with winning Wimbledon 5 times in a row.

They changed the grass at Wimbledon about 20 years ago to slow it down and since then Federer, Nadal and Djokovic have won both but Federer only has 1 French and Djokovic 2 whilst Nadal has 2 Wimbledon. In the era from early 70s to the end of the 20th century when Wimbledon and clay at FO were so different only 1 player other than Borg won both and that's Agassi who won only 1 of each.

So what Borg did is sensational the surfaces were so different and nobody else got close but it always begs the question why he could never win on the surface that sits between the two, at the US open. That's the mystery. The top players didn't play the Australian back then so the numbers aspect isn't everything.

Djokovic, Laver, Borg, that's your top 3 IMO.

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I don’t think it’s fair to rank Bord so highly based on the fact that he couldn’t handle the pressure…ultimately retiring as a result at 25. The pressure on Novak is inconceivably higher, and crest should be given to him for withstanding and also winning. Nadal for me is second.
 
#21 will be the hardest slam to win. Medvedev now having broken the slam duck, will be confident he can do it in Melbourne and New York. Still have to put Rafa as favourite in Paris. Wimbledon the one I think.
 
Lol- could the Djokovic clan be any more defensive?
Doubt that many would argue it anymore- Djokovic is the greatest. Has had the measure of the rest of the comp for quite some time now. Fantastic tennis player who plays the most extraordinary tennis. Does brilliantly on every surface and has overcome plenty of adversity time and time again. And has such longevity. Doesn’t mean I can’t have a preference for watching the tennis of Roger and Rafa at their best. Nor am I alone in that. Djokovic has plenty of admirers. Be happy dudes.
 

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pepsi said:
Tennis is interesting as you can improve technique, strategy and physicality as you go through your career. As an example, Djokovic serve is now much better, more effective and wins him more points than 10 years ago.
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Part of me thinks if Fed was same age as Djokovic/Nadal, and did not have it so “easy” against the likes of Hewitt and Roddick, then he might have had more success against Nadal because he would be forced to adapt his game earlier. Didn’t Fed start to have more success against Nadal once he changed his racquet? But too little too late.
 
pepsi said:
#21 will be the hardest slam to win. Medvedev now having broken the slam duck, will be confident he can do it in Melbourne and New York. Still have to put Rafa as favourite in Paris. Wimbledon the one I think.
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Novak will be fav for AO but would rate Novaks a greater chance to win Wimbledon than Aus Open. There are just no threats to him on grass atm. Matteo Berrettini is a good player but he is not great if you get what I mean. Someone would need to step up massively from nowhere.

But will be interesting if Thiem comes back and if he comes back to that level where he is a threat on Clay or Hardcourt.
 
BobbyMorri said:
Novak will be fav for AO but would rate Novaks a greater chance to win Wimbledon than Aus Open. There are just no threats to him on grass atm. Matteo Berrettini is a good player but he is not great if you get what I mean. Someone would need to step up massively from nowhere.
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Novak will be well rested for the AO so i can't see him getting touched. He looked cooked since the olympics
 
Belnakor said:
Novak will be well rested for the AO so i can't see him getting touched. He looked cooked since the olympics
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Winning the French Open and then going on to win Wimbledon has actually adversely affected his second half of the season. I doubt he’d have gone to Tokyo if he wasn’t chasing the golden slam - and if he doesn’t go there, fair chance he’s a lot fresher in the USO final against Medvedev.

But I’m sure he’s okay with all of that. Still a career defining year for him to go along with 2011 and 2015.
 


33 min read. Very interesting

From poi there isn’t any doubt who the GOAT is (Joker). there’s a bigger case for Nadal over Federer for 1 all time (especially young pre 25), though his results of course have to be taken with the absurd Clay dominance.

2015 top ten is stacked, so was 2011

2006 top ten it’s a clear difference.

Djokovic/Nadal/Renaissance FedEra was the golden age of tennis. More parity, more shared wins at the top, years upon years of perennial top ten players

Pretty much War Level Wawrinka stopped Joker from the convo being a non one to me. Murray’s season 2016 season is ranked very highly for a season.

Hardest road, Equal slams, Record Masters titles, Clay titles over Nadal (not including Slams) only one to beat him 4x on clay, 7x in a row.

Youngest to reach the semis or higher in every slam.

Beats Federer at age 21 in W/L %, titles etc etc.
Nadal is a GOAT teenager
Fed oldest to breakthrough, Nadal/Djokovic (2008ish-2017-2018 golden era of sports) much harder comp with 3 GOATS and the rest (Murray ATG).

I just see Joker being more live if they all starting their careers at the same time.

Federer is the oldest to breakthrough

(4th all time in return games won, Fed 41st at the time).

I mean 2021 top ten has more slams than the 2006 top ten even if you gave Fed an extra top ten player (Fed/Nadal excluded Fed/Nadal/Joker excluded 8 vs 7)

No question who had the harder road, makes sense there he was running the gauntlet much more.
 
jamjam said:
Part of me thinks if Fed was same age as Djokovic/Nadal, and did not have it so “easy” against the likes of Hewitt and Roddick, then he might have had more success against Nadal because he would be forced to adapt his game earlier. Didn’t Fed start to have more success against Nadal once he changed his racquet? But too little too late.
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Fed struggled against Nadal as soon as he was 17 on clay sometime on hard (First matchup Fed lost).

Especially on clay. Nadal as a teenager was a GOAT level clay player as soon as he entered.

Remember young Federer had his issues with temperament and not winning (oldest out of three to win his maiden slam)

Youngsters (Nadal, Joker and Murray, Berdych)

Have beat him when he was supposedly in his peak age. (World number one)

All three have massive overlap and all have taken wins of each other pre prime, peak, post prime.

Whether they were underdogs, favorites, young or old.
 
yaco55 said:
The GOAT Djojovic will be back playing the Dubai Open next month - Thank God we have a country with sensible policies concerning COVID.
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Who cares?

When they've all retired no one is remembering the Dubai Open in their legacy.

If he can't play Slams it'll hurt what his legacy would have been if he kept winning them to go undisputed.
 

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yaco55 said:
Except under current rules Novak will be playing the French Open and Wimbledon.
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Doesn't have a great record at the French, probably back Rafa ahead of him there.

Others are definitely taking over as the dominant players like Medvedev too.

Don't think Novak necessarily is an automatic pick at slams moving forward. Probably Wimbledon 2022 his best chance.
 
juss said:
Doesn't have a great record at the French, probably back Rafa ahead of him there.

Others are definitely taking over as the dominant players like Medvedev too.

Don't think Novak necessarily is an automatic pick at slams moving forward. Probably Wimbledon 2022 his best chance.
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Novak the only man to beat Rafa twice at RG including twice last year.

He'll win more slams.
 
boncer34 said:
Novak the only man to beat Rafa twice at RG including twice last year.

He'll win more slams.
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Rafa could be 2 up on him if he plays well tomorrow as he'd be the French favourite.

Not to mention guys like Medvedev and other younger players have more improvement left. Novak will be 35 or just about when he next contests another slam. The guys in their 20s have a lot more scope to improve, and some like Medvedev are already at a level that can win.

If Rafa goes up by 1 or 2, I'm not sure Novak has another 3 slams more than Rafa in him. Remember he might not even be able to play AO 2023.
 
juss said:
Rafa could be 2 up on him if he plays well tomorrow as he'd be the French favourite.

Not to mention guys like Medvedev and other younger players have more improvement left. Novak will be 35 or just about when he next contests another slam. The guys in their 20s have a lot more scope to improve, and some like Medvedev are already at a level that can win.

If Rafa goes up by 1 or 2, I'm not sure Novak has another 3 slams more than Rafa in him. Remember he might not even be able to play AO 2023.
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I think he'll be here.

Regardless why is Rafa the automatic favourite at RG over the defending champion (who also beat him)?

Novak would've been red hot favourite if he'd been allowed to play this year and would likely be playing tomorrow night. It's not like he's missed 6 months, he's missed one Slam, he's still defending champion at 2 and made the final at the last one he played.

We shall see but I predict he'll at least win one more this year.
 
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