List Mgmt. 2021 Trade & List Management Thread II - IN: CCJ

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Jun 7, 2019
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Agreed that PSD won't happen.

Yeah, I think if he was contracted a 2nd rounder would be around the mark. I think the fact that he's uncontracted does sway the trade in our favor. This is just a reality of the current system. Uncontracted players are always getting less then market value, whilst contracted players are getting equal or more then market value.

Not sure how close you are to the Draft this year but Pick 20 is quality pick this year & it's very valuable. Will allow us to get one of the likes of Wilmot, Wanganeen-Milera, Chesser, Bhazzo or Van Rooyen - All players that could be rated top 12-15 on our talent order. Given the unknown & varying views around this draft, it's highly likely that someone we rate quite high could still be on the board at 20. Which is why I'm keen to close that out immediately & would assume Brady would also.

Earlier I listed a number of players that were in similar scenarios to CCJ which has set a precedent on OOC high picks that have left for more opportunity for quite a bit less then they were originally recruited for. Dylan Stephens will be another example this year, after going Pick 5 in 2019, will likely go a pick in the 20s. It would be unprecedented for CCJ to go for Pick 20 this year, or likely what will be Pick 22-24 next year.

A lot is made about Brady's negotiation abilities - I think we will get a clear view of them with how we approach this trade. Like the Shaun Higgins/Stephenson trades last year, he has all the "power" in regards to negotiation, compared to the Brown trade where he had minimal.

My expectation of a "good negotiation" from our POV considering the circumstances, would be Pick 38 & a 2022 pick swap (Norths 3rd for Richmonds 4th).
generally agree, might be a bit more in 2022 (eg our 2nd for their 3rd), which I could live with; PSD will come alive, as it did for Carlton-Jack Martin, if Richmond follow the GC path and decline the final offer
 
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I don't use Twitter much, but last year I challenged Tom Browne on his use of "I'm told that..." and "It is thought that..." and "It is believed..." I asked why not just say it happened because it sounds like you're just making stuff up. He rather angrily responded that I clearly know nothing about football journalism and it's just the way it's done. But all of these things did happen. And then he blocked me.

Wanka.
 
Some strange events going on
Picks North offer over Gold Coasts
But still hasn’t decided between Richmond and North….
Wouldn’t you normally ask for a trade first, and then listen to rival offers?
If he’s using us to drive his price up, like others in the past, that’ll piss me off big time


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the flying ham

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Dec 12, 2006
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Agreed that PSD won't happen.

Yeah, I think if he was contracted a 2nd rounder would be around the mark. I think the fact that he's uncontracted does sway the trade in our favor. This is just a reality of the current system. Uncontracted players are always getting less then market value, whilst contracted players are getting equal or more then market value.

Not sure how close you are to the Draft this year but Pick 20 is quality pick this year & it's very valuable. Will allow us to get one of the likes of Wilmot, Wanganeen-Milera, Chesser, Bhazzo or Van Rooyen - All players that could be rated top 12-15 on our talent order. Given the unknown & varying views around this draft, it's highly likely that someone we rate quite high could still be on the board at 20. Which is why I'm keen to close that out immediately & would assume Brady would also.

Earlier I listed a number of players that were in similar scenarios to CCJ which has set a precedent on OOC high picks that have left for more opportunity for quite a bit less then they were originally recruited for. Dylan Stephens will be another example this year, after going Pick 5 in 2019, will likely go a pick in the 20s. It would be unprecedented for CCJ to go for Pick 20 this year, or likely what will be Pick 22-24 next year.

A lot is made about Brady's negotiation abilities - I think we will get a clear view of them with how we approach this trade. Like the Shaun Higgins/Stephenson trades last year, he has all the "power" in regards to negotiation, compared to the Brown trade where he had minimal.

My expectation of a "good negotiation" from our POV, would be Pick 38 & a 2022 pick swap (Norths 3rd for Richmonds 4th).

I have stated a few times now I don't think pick 20 will be involved.

Given I think we will finish somewhere in the 8-14 range next year, a future 2nd after academy and father sons is somewhere around the 28 to 33 and in my humble opinion, for a mature ruck/fwd we want to sign for 4 years, pretty fair.

From memory you mentioned Peter Wright? Being a 4th rounder?
 
Our negotiation for CCJ should be something like this:

NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: That's totally inadequate. We want pick 20 and upgrade our 2022 4th pick to your 3rd.
NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: OK, we'll drop the exchange of next year's picks. Just add an upgrade of our pick 40 to your 38 on top of 20.
NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: Alright, no other exchange of picks - just the pick 20 will do.
NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: It's not enough.
NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: No, no, no. Pick 20 must be involved.
NM: We'll give you pick 38.
Richmond: Look, at this rate, we're walking away.
NM: We'll give you pick 38 or walk CCJ to the PSD.
Richmond: OK, deal.
This is different to your usual trades.
 

Psicosis

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generally agree, might be a bit more in 2022 (eg our 2nd for their 3rd), which I could live with; PSD will come alive, as it did for Carlton-Jack Martin, if Richmond follow the GC path and decline the final offer

Suppose the risk there is that we have a shocking year & Tigers go back into the 8 - Effectively that could be pick 19-21 for pick 45-50.

Pick 38 & 21 (2022) for CCJ & 47 (2022) is overs.
 
I haven’t kept up with this thread because, well, it’s hard to, so apologies if it’s been discussed.

It hurts me to write this because he’s one of my favourites but with the way our midfield is shaping. Ughhhh. I don’t even want to write it, BUT, should North entertain trading Jed?

Ok I’ve finished vomiting in my mouth just thinking and writing about it.
My logic is that Jed is a pure mid (and plays like a genuine Shinboner which is why I hate this)

But with our 23 and under midfield looking like a rolled gold midfield of the future I just don’t see him getting much time in the midfield with Powell coming back and most likely JHF coming in. It might be the best option for him and the club and he’s got value. We even saw him playing different roles this year without our full midfield playing. It won’t get easier.

Sometimes you’ve got to do the hard things.
If he'd played a full season in the form he showed at the start of the year then he'd have real value but he doesn't now.

Plus we need some old hard campaigners to protect that young midfield. Him and Cunners is it atm.
 

Psicosis

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I have stated a few times now I don't think pick 20 will be involved.

Given I think we will finish somewhere in the 8-14 range next year, a future 2nd after academy and father sons is somewhere around the 28 to 33 and in my humble opinion, for a mature ruck/fwd we want to sign for 4 years, pretty fair.

From memory you mentioned Peter Wright? Being a 4th rounder?

As stated in my above post, it sees us taking on a pretty decent risk considering many wouldn't expect us to finish in the 8-14 range.

I'm personally not confident enough on 2022 to take that risk.

Yeah, Wright was traded for a future 4th rounder. I don't expect that obviously, but the whole "was pick 20, years of development despite not being best 22 so should have similar value of a second round pick" narrative doesn't stand up in negotiations.
 

the flying ham

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As stated in my above post, it sees us taking on a pretty decent risk considering many wouldn't expect us to finish in the 8-14 range.

I'm personally not confident enough on 2022 to take that risk.

Yeah, Wright was traded for a future 4th rounder. I don't expect that obviously, but the whole "was pick 20, years of development despite not being best 22 so should have similar value of a second round pick" narrative doesn't stand up in negotiations.

That's great because once again I don't think pick 20 will be involved. And Peter Wright has no relevance whatsoever given the 500k in annual salary GC wanted off the books.
 

the flying ham

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What would happen to CCJ if we put forward an offer to Richmond and they don’t accept it by the end of the trade period?


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Then it is the PSD. Which would be great but clubs generally want to remain amicable so something probably gets worked out
 

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the flying ham

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Presumably the medical is to confirm he is fully capable of being able to fly the white flag under finals pressure.

Haha I thought that too when I saw it. I can't see how Finlayson gives them more fight in the contest. Which is great because I can't stand them
 

Psicosis

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That's great because once again I don't think pick 20 will be involved. And Peter Wright has no relevance whatsoever given the 500k in annual salary GC wanted off the books.

You are though suggesting involving a pick next year which could very well be Pick 20 if things don't go as optimistically as you hope.

Weird that you've cherry picked the Wright example & neglected the others...

Dylan Stephens was Pick 5 in 2019 - Will he be traded for Pick 5?
Peter Wright was Pick 8 in 2014 - Traded for Fourth Round Pick
Jackson Hately was Pick 14 in 2018 - Walked to PSD
Jay Caldwell was Pick 11 in 2018 - Traded with Pick 44 & 74 for Pick 29 & Future Second
Aiden Bonar was Pick 11 in 2017 - Traded for Future Third Round Pick
 

the flying ham

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Sure next year could be 20 but I dont think it will be so...

You've chucked peter wright in there again. I think Richmond will want more than Pick 38 and we will probably end up doing better than that to bring him in.
we will find out soon enough
 

Sphynx

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Jul 10, 2011
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Welcome change to be getting sub 23 year old players that opposition clubs fan base are pissed at losing.

Stephenson and CCJ would be a good 12 months for Brady and Luff.
 

Mjs94

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Apr 24, 2016
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Some strange events going on
Picks North offer over Gold Coasts
But still hasn’t decided between Richmond and North….
Wouldn’t you normally ask for a trade first, and then listen to rival offers?
If he’s using us to drive his price up, like others in the past, that’ll piss me off big time


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
The pessimist in me believes this
 
Not sure how close you are to the Draft this year but Pick 20 is quality pick this year & it's very valuable. Will allow us to get one of the likes of Wilmot, Wanganeen-Milera, Chesser, Bhazzo or Van Rooyen - All players that could be rated top 12-15 on our talent order. Given the unknown & varying views around this draft, it's highly likely that someone we rate quite high could still be on the board at 20. Which is why I'm keen to close that out immediately & would assume Brady would also.

Yep. Even in an average draft year your 2nd pick as the last placed team is a strong pick - close enough to a first round pick when all is said and done.
 

7577969923

Norm Smith Medallist
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What would happen to CCJ if we put forward an offer to Richmond and they don’t accept it by the end of the trade period?


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He is out of contract so if no trade is done and he doesn't accept Richmond's offer then he can nominate for the pre-season draft.
 

Psicosis

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Sure next year could be 20 but I dont think it will be so...

You've chucked peter wright in there again

Suppose that's the risk (unnecessary risk from my perspective) of what you're proposing.

It's copied & pasted, figured you'd work that out.

More precedent...
Sam Docherty Pick 12 - Traded for Pick 33
Will Setterfield Pick 5 - Traded for Future Second & Pick 43
 
Some strange events going on
Picks North offer over Gold Coasts
But still hasn’t decided between Richmond and North….
Wouldn’t you normally ask for a trade first, and then listen to rival offers?
If he’s using us to drive his price up, like others in the past, that’ll piss me off big time


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He has obviously been courted for some time. From what I read it sounded like GC and us were the two who chased aggressively and his manager told GC that he didn't want to move to QLD so in a two horse race that doesn't need an active imagination. Most other clubs have well established ruck options. If you want to play ruck, you would have to be as dumb as Preuss to want to go to Melbourne for example.
 
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