Coronavirus 2020 / Worldwide (Stats live update in OP) Part 7: This Thread is for Reasonable ON TOPIC Discussion

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In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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mrmonkey said:
To be honest the government generally sticks to their word when making announcements.
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Like the last one week lockdown?

They make it almost impossible to out and out lie by caveating the s**t out of any announcements and keeping giant loopholes to any commitments.

This time though theyve done exactly what they said they would, no smokeshow, no bullshit.
 

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Better Loosen Up said:
Here's an idea for a protest... encourage everyone to make a banner/ placard and go and walk around their local park for 2 hours.

It's well within the current restrictions, it would still be impactful with a wide reach and it might actually encourage more people to be actively involved.
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Yep, who would have thought there were other creative options for protesting and expressing your opinion! According to some there only way possible to protest is to gather a few thousand anti-vaxxers / freedum fighters and have them shout at police in the CBD.
 
Zidane98 said:
Yep, who would have thought there were other creative options for protesting and expressing your opinion! According to some there only way possible to protest is to gather a few thousand anti-vaxxers / freedum fighters and have them shout at police in the CBD.
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Actually we didnt say there was no other way, we just asked what the other ways were.

The suggestion your quoting is better than your ridiculous suggestions but still hardly effective.
 
Mofra said:
It's not the protest that people have concerns with.
It's the associated risk of Covid transmission which is the concern. The people protesting are hardly the mask-wearing, social distancing types. "Jesus is my vaccine" isn't exactly peer-reviewed science.
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Nor are they going to get themselves tested when they are unwell until they are that sick, they are forced to rock up at an ER or call an ambulance. By that stage they've been visiting their family, friends and going out in the community for at least a week.

Science is not a part of these peoples lives.
 
phantom13 said:
Actually we didnt say there was no other way, we just asked what the other ways were.

The suggestion your quoting is better than your ridiculous suggestions but still hardly effective.
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So you didn't say there was no other way but you don't know of another way to protest. Quality.
 
craigos said:
Has there been any real evidence to point towards any of the numerous protests around the country contributing to any "super spreader" events?

Don't forget, they closed playgrounds for kids because of the potential of there being spread, not because there had been in the whole 18 months of the pandemic.
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Exactly what evidence are you hoping to find when these people are extremely unlikely to go and get tested?
 
Zidane98 said:
So you didn't say there was no other way but you don't know of another way to protest. Quality.
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I have never been to a protest nor would i ever bother, doesnt mean i dont respect other peoples right to do it (even if i do think the public health orders override the need to protest in this instance).

I went to the marriage equality March in Sydney. Not sure anything else that movement did generated as much exposure as that did.
 
phantom13 said:
Like the last one week lockdown?

They make it almost impossible to out and out lie by caveating the sh*t out of any announcements and keeping giant loopholes to any commitments.

This time though theyve done exactly what they said they would, no smokeshow, no bullshit.
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They keep to their word that they will make an announcement. Whether they are honest with what is announced is a different thing.
 

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phantom13 said:
I have never been to a protest nor would i ever bother, doesnt mean i dont respect other peoples right to do it (even if i do think the public health orders override the need to protest in this instance).

I went to the marriage equality March in Sydney. Not sure anything else that movement did generated as much exposure as that did.
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Here's the thing you don't seem to get. There are no laws agains protesting right now. There are laws against going further than 10km from your home, there are laws against not socially distancing (rather ineffective laws if you ask me but they are what they are).

Anyone that wants to protest for a genuine reason that wants to actually make a change for good in society will do so in a way that doesn't breach public health orders. Being a protestor does not make you exempt from these crappy laws and nor should it because that's unfair on everybody else. Like many have said plenty of these "freedum" protestors aren't really interested in effecting change, they're just out to get in a clash with authorities because they're frustrated with the lockdowns like all of us.

Saying there's no other way to do it is just plain stupid. And lockdowns do not equate with taking away one's right to protest, I believe this has been tested in court before and failed spectacularly, it just isn't a valid argument in any sense. This is coming from someone who strongly disagrees with the current lockdown laws.


I bet once the lockdowns disappear none of these clowns will be organising a legitimate, legal protest with thousands to ensure it never happens again.
 
Zidane98 said:
Here's the thing you don't seem to get. There are no laws agains protesting right now. There are laws against going further than 10km from your home, there are laws against not socially distancing (rather ineffective laws if you ask me but they are what they are).

Anyone that wants to protest for a genuine reason that wants to actually make a change for good in society will do so in a way that doesn't breach public health orders. Being a protestor does not make you exempt from these crappy laws and nor should it because that's unfair on everybody else. Like many have said plenty of these "freedum" protestors aren't really interested in effecting change, they're just out to get in a clash with authorities because they're frustrated with the lockdowns like all of us.

Saying there's no other way to do it is just plain stupid. And lockdowns do not equate with taking away one's right to protest, I believe this has been tested in court before and failed spectacularly, it just isn't a valid argument in any sense. This is coming from someone who strongly disagrees with the current lockdown laws.


I bet once the lockdowns disappear none of these clowns will be organising a legitimate, legal protest with thousands to ensure it never happens again.
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Youve genuinely not bothered to read a single thing ive said have you.

The health orders effectively forbid people from organising and running any form of protest or rally in the sense that we all know them to run (think the BLM protest which i think were staged under the same restrictions except the 10km rules we have now last year). Im not saying they should be allowed to protest or break any of the rules, in fact im completely fine with Dan just banning protests altogether explicitly under the current health orders.

I am pointing out that i dont know what else they could do to make the point they believe in (that i dont) as effectively.

You then said there are lots of other ways.

I asked what.

You said get into politics, get into media or do something on social media. The first two are so far disconnected from reality its laughable, the last is a good suggestion so kudos to you, i doubt it would be as effective but its a good suggestion.

If you honestly believe that someone who isnt technically breaking any rules (being inside their 10kms, one their alloted time and with only one other person) showing up to Spring Street with an anti lockdown sign wont be told to * off by the cops you are a moron. If nothing else the police would argue they are not exercising and therefore breaching one of the reasons to leave home.

The "operation" to shutdown the city isnt being done for any reason other than to stop the protest.
 
craigos said:
How are people going to point to them being risky then if there is no way to prove it either way?
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OK, I'll set the scene


Fair chance most of these people have not being following the rules in their daily lives
The rules are intended and are proven to prevent the spread of the virus
These people are therefore putting themselves at risk of exposure
These people are also unlikely to go and get tested if they are unwell
They are also unlikely to stay home if they are unwell
Thousands of these people are then gathering in the one place without any social distancing.

What do you think will be the outcome?
 
mrmonkey said:
It's pretty easy to announce something that isn't really anything different. Extra hour, 5 to 10km, skate parks and outdoor gyms open, small gatherings from different households. People have been doing this the whole time.
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This is the weirdest argument ive seen on this thread... Im literally giving the barest modicum of credit for the govt doing what they said they would, you then said they have done that most of the time, i pointed out they kind of have but kind of havent and now youre saying they shouldnt get any credit because the announcements were pretty average (which i did acknowledge in my original post giving credit).

Good job on doing what you said Dan and crew, thats all. I honestly dont think it warranted a reply from anyone.
 
Better Loosen Up said:
OK, I'll set the scene


Fair chance most of these people have not being following the rules in their daily lives
The rules are intended and are proven to prevent the spread of the virus
These people are therefore putting themselves at risk of exposure
These people are also unlikely to go and get tested if they are unwell
They are also unlikely to stay home if they are unwell
Thousands of these people are then gathering in the one place without any social distancing.

What do you think will be the outcome?
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If you have to make that many assumptions to try and prove a point, it probably isn't a great point to begin with.

Decisions and arguments should be based on cold hard data at this point, not "what if's" (ie the Playground debacle).
 
phantom13 said:
Youve genuinely not bothered to read a single thing ive said have you.

The health orders effectively forbid people from organising and running any form of protest or rally in the sense that we all know them to run (think the BLM protest which i think were staged under the same restrictions except the 10km rules we have now last year). Im not saying they should be allowed to protest or break any of the rules, in fact im completely fine with Dan just banning protests altogether explicitly under the current health orders.

I am pointing out that i dont know what else they could do to make the point they believe in (that i dont) as effectively.

You then said there are lots of other ways.

I asked what.

You said get into politics, get into media or do something on social media. The first two are so far disconnected from reality its laughable, the last is a good suggestion so kudos to you, i doubt it would be as effective but its a good suggestion.

If you honestly believe that someone who isnt technically breaking any rules (being inside their 10kms, one their alloted time and with only one other person) showing up to Spring Street with an anti lockdown sign wont be told to fu** off by the cops you are a moron. If nothing else the police would argue they are not exercising and therefore breaching one of the reasons to leave home.

The "operation" to shutdown the city isnt being done for any reason other than to stop the protest.
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Youve lost the plot. Anybody who are within 10kms from their house and are exercising while complying with all public health orders will not get a fine. Its that simple. To think otherwise just plays into the narrative of anti vax - anti authority dickheads, coincidentally the same group who mostly attend protests.

If they stop, gather in a group and start yelling obscenities at police then yeah they probably cop a fine.

Its not hard to understand, it really isnt.
 
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