News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV

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Jan 23, 2019
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It’s a sad world we live in when people are suggesting that unvaccinated should not get hospital care if needed because it is self inflected apparently.

We could use that logic against people that smoke, drink alcohol are overweight because they can’t control their eating etc etc.

100s of thousands of beds are taken up annually around Australia due to the above controllable diseases.

Based on the logic of some inhumane people on here, hospital care should be denied to lung cancer, liver cancer, colon cancer and diabetic patients. After all they didn’t choose a healthy lifestyle.


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a tad south of 12 billion PA for obesity in Aus .

interesting that a person within the heathy weight range with diabetes costs 2.5k PA to manage and obese person 3.5k , must be the extra food 😛

we sit number 2 in the world for obesity , go us .
 
Mods should give strong consideration to icing this thread for a day or so in order for people to chill the f*** out.

Some very ordinary posts in the past few pages from all sides of the argument.

Yep, think we all need a breather.

Most of us mean well, but discussion is beyond tiring.
 
a tad south of 12 billion PA for obesity in Aus .

interesting that a person within the heathy weight range with diabetes costs 2.5k PA to manage and obese person 3.5k , must be the extra food 😛

we sit number 2 in the world for obesity , go us .
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Mar 17, 2012
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Another person I know is in ICU. His organs are failing due to not enough oxygen getting to them. And yes, he is on a ventilator. This guy was on the fence in regards to taking the vax.

That's not good mate. I hope he recovers.

We've been largely shielded in Australia from the devastating effects Covid has on people.

I wonder how the anti Vax movement is going in places like Italy, where they've lived through bodies on the streets as the hospital system was overwhelmed.
 

Smoocher

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Depending on the penetration of fully vaccinated people in the population at the time then your claim is highly unlikely to be true. Even at 90% fully vaccinated it is still highly unlikely that would be the case because we know that unvaccinated people are far, far more likely to experience illness from Covid that requires hospitalisation.

The caveat on this is that if the only people left unvaccinated are completely healthy young adults and 100% of the at-risk population is fully vaccinated then it is possible that the 90/10 split you suggest could eventuate.

Either way, with 90% of the population fully vaccinated we know that the total number of people hospitalised for Covid will be vastly less than it would otherwise be.

The following quotes are from the Royal Australian Association of GP's website:

"Once adjusted for age, results indicated that rates of hospitalisation were 29.2 times higher among the unvaccinated compared to the vaccinated as of 25 July." - in reference to a California based study

"The age-adjusted hospitalisation rate in that study was less dramatic than that found in the Los Angeles research, but still striking. It stood at 23.5 per 100,000 unvaccinated residents compared to 2.4 among those who had gone through the full vaccination process." - in reference to a New York based study

Based on the lower outcome of the two studies it is likely that the split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated in the hospital would be much closer to 50/50, even with 90% of the population fully vaccinated.

Unvaccinated people provide an easier access point for a virus to enter a population and are more likely to infect others.

So based on your logic the unvaccinated that will not be allowed to go to any music events, weddings, funerals, sporting events, restaurants, pubs, clubs and maybe even shopping.

They won’t even be allowed to go to work.

They will basically stuck at home.

Yeh these are the people that will be spreading the virus.

You need to look no further than Israel as one of the highest percentage vaccinated countries in the world. They are our template if you want to know how this unfolds.


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Another person I know is in ICU. His organs are failing due to not enough oxygen getting to them. And yes, he is on a ventilator. This guy was on the fence in regards to taking the vax.

Sorry to hear mate, hope he comes through the other side ok.
 
Yep, think we all need a breather.

Most of us mean well, but discussion is beyond tiring.


It's an outlet. If it's not on here, then people in the real world are going to wear the brunt.

On hear it's words.

Don't read the thread if you need a break.

Some punk insinuating im a heroin addict is fine by me if it makes him feel like a better person for a few seconds in his likely s**t stain of life.
 
It's an outlet. If it's not on here, then people in the real world are going to wear the brunt.

On hear it's words.

Don't read the thread if you need a break.

Some punk insinuating im a heroin addict is fine by me if it makes him feel like a better person for a few seconds in his likely sh*t stain of life.

I'm fine mate, I've been accused of being a bully and believing people should be denied healthcare, but I'm not taking it personally. Understand frustration and stress causes people to make s**t comments.

This thread ain't exactly producing reasonable discussion though.
 

The Lone Latic

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Just woke up after getting my second Pfizer jab. Thought I’d be okay but I feel so sh*t
2nd one is always the worst. Some things I've heard that help is just maintaining hydrated, apparently coconut water with some lime squeezed in helps and lemon in either hot water or tea.
 
2nd one is always the worst. Some things I've heard that help is just maintaining hydrated, apparently coconut water with some lime squeezed in helps and lemon in either hot water or tea.

Yep, second was average but slammed the water and rested and was good the next day. Hope you feel better soon bruhmoment
 
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Lol, by the way you campaigners act in this thread, the feeling is well and truly mutual Horace

Good luck with your conditional, terrified existence. Masked & vaxxed for life.

Want to go on holiday...better check the Vax rate first. Sorry, the booster rate...are the French up with their boosters love,? ...hmm, their down 8% on last quarters take up... we'll just remain onboard when she docks in Paris then...we'll have croissants by the pool instead, will give us time to google the latest inoculations...I heard covabax gives you a real pep up, hopefully no runs like that hugmevax we picked up in New York. ....God wasn't that terrifying, so many African Americans, I felt like a tornado having to cross the road so many times to avoid them.
It’s a standing joke on here that Horace has lived forever, but it’s worth you remembering that there are posters here who fall into the more vulnerable categories for age and other reasons, who are more likely to wind up in ICU and more likely to die if they catch COVID. If that’s not you and you will be comfortable reading about COVID deaths and accepting that’s collateral damage for you being able to a less restricted life, good for you, but it’s poor form to mock anyone who knows they will be at risk and will choose (that word again) to be extra cautious.
 

7577969923

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So based on your logic the unvaccinated that will not be allowed to go to any music events, weddings, funerals, sporting events, restaurants, pubs, clubs and maybe even shopping.

They won’t even be allowed to go to work.

They will basically stuck at home.

Yeh these are the people that will be spreading the virus.

You need to look no further than Israel as one of the highest percentage vaccinated countries in the world. They are our template if you want to know how this unfolds.


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I didn't say those things but the unvaccinated by their choices are increasing the risk that our hospitals get overwhelmed forcing the rest of us back into lockdown. Do you favour continued whole of population measures like lockdowns, or targetted measures against those that pose the most risk?

Everybody can avoid all of those restrictions and do their bit for the community as a whole by getting a very simple vaccination that has proven to be both safe and effective.

Anybody who is using Israel as an argument that people shouldn't get vaccinated or there is no point has very little understanding of the situation.
 

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I’m sick and tired of people using the argument “pro-choice” against the vaccine, it’s not what it means. Pro choice is advocating for Woman’s Autonomy over their body in regards to abortion, that is what it means by definition. It’s about abortion not about your selfish views whether you get the vaccine. And I think it’s so offensive because real pro-choice in terms of abortion is a very important issue and it’s a matter that every single woman should have control over and it should have any political stance.

And I can’t fathom people that say “well your body your choice when it comes to abortion but it’s not your body your choice when it comes to the vaccine” if you have any critical thinking skills you’d realise abortions aren’t contagious, COVID-19 is highly contagious.

If I get an abortion it’s not going to affect you or strangers. If you get covid without getting the vaccine, spreading it around to your family, friends and the community, it’s not just a you decision, your deciding for everyone else around you too. Just say you are anti vaxx.
 
Jul 11, 2017
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Just woke up after getting my second Pfizer jab. Thought I’d be okay but I feel so sh*t
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Oof, yeah I made sure I had a day off after the second one. Hope ya got someone there to let you chill for a few hours, it makes a difference.
Dr. Anthony Fauci said he does not have a "firm answer" about a study implying that naturally acquired immunity is more effective than vaccines at preventing you from reacquiring COVID-19.

CNN's Sanjay Gupta asked if people who have already recovered from COVID-19 should still be required to get the vaccine.

"I don't have a really firm answer for you on that," he said Thursday on CNN. "I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously."


You would think this bloke WOULD have a firm answer at this stage of events.

Perhaps he hadn't been fed the spin, or a way to discredit the study yet?

Perhaps he just wants to role ahead with the jab everyone on the planet with total disregard of the risk/reward factor of the individual regardless of any new study that comes to light?
This doesn't really address anything lol, just more attacking and misdirection. But as I said, to gain natural immunity (which isn't 100% effective anyway) you would still need to have had covid first, and hopefully survive and not encounter any long term complications. Like, isn't that just the long way around getting a vaccine?

There's a way to reduce your risk of severe illness right now, without rolling the dice on a ventilator.

I find it kinda amusing that we have a potentially lab developed virus that has been mutating in the wild for 2 years now and letting that into your body is preferable to a vaccine that will fortify you against the more severe symptoms.
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Oof, yeah I made sure I had a day off after the second one. Hope ya got someone there to let you chill for a few hours, it makes a difference.

This doesn't really address anything lol, just more attacking and misdirection. But as I said, to gain natural immunity (which isn't 100% effective anyway) you would still need to have had covid first, and hopefully survive and not encounter any long term complications. Like, isn't that just the long way around getting a vaccine?

There's a way to reduce your risk of severe illness right now, without rolling the dice on a ventilator.

I find it kinda amusing that we have a potentially lab developed virus that has been mutating in the wild for 2 years now and letting that into your body is preferable to a vaccine that will fortify you against the more severe symptoms.
Bizzaro

The bolded absolutely nails it.
 

The Lone Latic

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I’m sick and tired of people using the argument “pro-choice” against the vaccine, it’s not what it means. Pro choice is advocating for Woman’s Autonomy over their body in regards to abortion, that is what it means by definition. It’s about abortion not about your selfish views whether you get the vaccine. And I think it’s so offensive because real pro-choice in terms of abortion is a very important issue and it’s a matter that every single woman should have control over and it should have any political stance.

And I can’t fathom people that say “well your body your choice when it comes to abortion but it’s not your body your choice when it comes to the vaccine” if you have any critical thinking skills you’d realise abortions aren’t contagious, COVID-19 is highly contagious.

If I get an abortion it’s not going to affect you or strangers. If you get covid without getting the vaccine, spreading it around to your family, friends and the community, it’s not just a you decision, your deciding for everyone else around you too. Just say you are anti vaxx.
It's ironic and also so contradictory that alot of those who are pro choice for the vaccine, are not pro choice when it comes to women's health.

They use words that suit them when they like and stick their heads in the sand when called out on it. You can't have your cake and eat it too (and dump on everyone else's in thr process by potentially spreading it if you get it).

I'm curious to see how many that have been protesting end up in hospital demand their right to health care given we now know that there were people infected at the protests. But like I've been saying, it probably still wouldn't change their minds
 

big_e

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So far we have had posters wanting unvaxed people to be shot, beaten, denied health care. Calling them selfish. Implying that they are pedos. Wanting them to be second class citizens and pariahs in their own country.

FMD. What the hell have we become ?

And before you start hen pecking me. I'm fully vaccinated . IMO .Its none of my business what other people do.
But we have a bunch of Mrs Jessups and Mrs Mangels in here and i just don't get it
Some people are frustrated and venting.

By the way, it was a pro-choice person making the comparison with pedophiles.
 
The bolded absolutely nails it.


It's getting into the body in both instances.

MYbe some don't want more "lab developed" substances in their body.

In any case, I am against mandating and coercion.

From day 1 in this thread all I ever said was if you want it good, but don't force it on others who feel less inclined.

As soon as I posted that view the "poor form" was directed my way with vitriol.

The poor form was liked, and jeered. So if the poor form card is getting rolled out today, I'd say it's a tad late.
 

Smoocher

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I didn't say those things but the unvaccinated by their choices are increasing the risk that our hospitals get overwhelmed forcing the rest of us back into lockdown. Do you favour continued whole of population measures like lockdowns, or targetted measures against those that pose the most risk?

Everybody can avoid all of those restrictions and do their bit for the community as a whole by getting a very simple vaccination that has proven to be both safe and effective.

Anybody who is using Israel as an argument that people shouldn't get vaccinated or there is no point has very little understanding of the situation.

My point is that people are using the argument that unvaccinated people will cause all the spread and fill hospital beds.

We will have a very small % of people unvaccinated in 2-3 months time due to all the restrictions that will be placed on them.

People are spreading false information that it will be the unvaccinated people’s fault that the hospitals will be full and they will be the main spreaders.

I understand the govt needed to pull some leavers to try and encourage/ coerce people like myself into getting the jab.

But for the govt and people to go on and on about it is a bit too much and causing mental strain on friendships and family.

Who will the Government and the people blame when the vaccinated are the main spreaders.

Will it be the people from European backgrounds because they have big family get together.

Will it be sport because we can put sport ahead of potential Covid transmissions.
The list will go on and on.

We need to get past laying blame on a particular group of people.


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Mar 16, 2001
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I’m sick and tired of people using the argument “pro-choice” against the vaccine, it’s not what it means. Pro choice is advocating for Woman’s Autonomy over their body in regards to abortion, that is what it means by definition. It’s about abortion not about your selfish views whether you get the vaccine. And I think it’s so offensive because real pro-choice in terms of abortion is a very important issue and it’s a matter that every single woman should have control over and it should have any political stance.

And I can’t fathom people that say “well your body your choice when it comes to abortion but it’s not your body your choice when it comes to the vaccine” if you have any critical thinking skills you’d realise abortions aren’t contagious, COVID-19 is highly contagious.

If I get an abortion it’s not going to affect you or strangers. If you get covid without getting the vaccine, spreading it around to your family, friends and the community, it’s not just a you decision, your deciding for everyone else around you too. Just say you are anti vaxx.
You are right that’s it’s probably inappropriate to steal a slogan that’s been misused on a much different topic, but in this case you could certainly be anti mandatory vaccinations without being anti vaccinations per se. Anti-mandate or anti-compulsion don’t roll off the tongue so well though - and the right to choice seems like such a positive, unarguable position you can see why they’ve gone with that.

I think we all agree that choice is a good thing - and pretty much all of us accept that because of the impact some possible choices might have on other people, it’s reasonable for some choices to be limited by laws and regulations, while others are moderated in most people by their own sense of community, ethics, whatever you’d call your motivation to think of others as well as yourself in the choices you exercise. Different jobs and workplaces, and different other places people interact, set different limitations or invite different levels of moderation on personal choices - easy to think of examples.

For me, vaccination against a dangerous virus that isn’t going away is a sensible precaution, and it’s reasonable that my workplace where I will again be in close contact with people, or the school where my kid will be taught, or the home where my old mother will be cared for, or places where there is a high risk of the virus spreading, would restrict choice over vaccinations so everyone goes in protected.
 
My point is that people are using the argument that unvaccinated people will cause all the spread and fill hospital beds.

We will have a very small % of people unvaccinated in 2-3 months time due to all the restrictions that will be placed on them.

People are spreading false information that it will be the unvaccinated people’s fault that the hospitals will be full and they will be the main spreaders.

I understand the govt needed to pull some leavers to try and encourage/ coerce people like myself into getting the jab.

But for the govt and people to go on and on about it is a bit too much and causing mental strain on friendships and family.

Who will the Government and the people blame when the vaccinated are the main spreaders.

Will it be the people from European backgrounds because they have big family get together.

Will it be sport because we can put sport ahead of potential Covid transmissions.
The list will go on and on.

We need to get past laying blame on a particular group of people.


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Hey mate, not having a go here, quoting my own post only because of done a dozen variations of throughout the thread without much response. Curious to hear your point of view.


Asking this sincerely and without judgement or anger, but people that are so vocal against vaccination, do they honestly think that the world without any COVID safety is possible and the world will return to normal?

You don't want to be vacced, fine, but we need to lockdown so the majority can. And for those that are struggling with lockdowns, we need people vacc'd ASAP.

I'm all for having my mind changed and opened to alternative viewpoints, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that zero covid safety will result in things going back to normal.

I get that people are hesitant about what they put in their bodies, I get that people are wary of the government, I get that people are the end of their tether and over it all, but to ignore that the pandemic isn't serious and doesn't require some sort of action has me flummoxed.

For the record, not advocating anyone be denied healthcare, no matter who you are.

If there's a better alternative to what we're doing at the moment, and definitely all for for it. What we're doing at the moment certainly isn't fun.
 
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