News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV

[Forever North]

If the hospitals become overwhelmed with covid 19 patients, what do you think should happen, lockdown and try and slow down the cases, or just stack them up on the footpaths outside the hospitals? Very hard job that all our leaders have.

Maybe increase the ICU capacity as Andrews promised last year(4000 beds?) to meet a potential disaster scenario…. ….but Andrews ‘can’t recall’ again saying such a thing…… just tried to worm his way out of it again the other day. How many of the 4000 beds are ready to go right now? Anyone know? Or is this another Andrews style creeping assumption.
Still if we’re still having massive cases, hospitalisations and deaths(I sincerely hope not) even at 80%+ double vax then we’re kind of screwed. But it doesn’t seem to be the case going by what’s happening overseas. Most in hospital and dying are unvaccinated. And as horrible as it sounds I’m not really prepared to do any more heavy lifting for those people that choose not to get vaccinated. Their body, their choice blah blah..

 

[Horace]

He is such a smug, bullying, condescending campaigner!

He is a useless individual at the best of times. I'm not sure a positive word has ever come out of his mouth. Mind you what hope did he have when his parents named him David? David Davis. What sort of parents do that to their kids? Mind you they could have called him Davis Davis, I suppose.

 

[7577969923]

He is a useless individual at the best of times. I'm not sure a positive word has ever come out of his mouth. Mind you what hope did he have when his parents named him David? David Davis. What sort of parents do that to their kids? Mind you they could have called him Davis Davis, I suppose.

Love your work Horace. As you well know I was talking about the other smug, bullying, condescending campaigner.

Davis is pretty much a non-entity.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

It was several months into the panic. There is no evidence of any agility and ability to rapidly scale. They wanted to bath in the political glory of a substantial increase in capacity but then didn't follow through. It's either cynical, incompetent, or both.

Our first case was early March. The announcement was on made on March 31st during a lockdown and during a significant daily rise through an unvaccinated populace. While I agree that making such an announcement can quite rightly be attributed to political gamesmanship I do think there was genuine panic at that stage, so it was probably a case of 's**t, we need to do something' and then milking that strategy for all it was worth. This was also at the same time that hospitals were modelling their potential ICU demand against projected numbers and where shitting their dacks. I know one hospital was preparing the set up an army style facility in their car park that would hold 250 ICU beds. This was also around the time of Italy, Spain, the US going batshit nuts in deaths and serious illness, so contextually such a call was understandable.

But then our numbers dropped, so it appears Dandrews dropped this promise pretty quickly as it looked like demand wasn't there. And it still isn't, but it might be. As I said, i will have a convo with someone who will know if there was any follow though on developing capacity. Will keep ya posted, might be a few weeks.

 

[roospur]

It's almost like people are actively cheering on for the need for these 4000 beds.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

It's almost like people are actively cheering on for the need for these 4000 beds.

I'm very glad we haven't needed one and restrictions have pretty much removed it as a necessary facility.

 

[Val Keating]

Yep. Davis is a bit of a non-entity.

We live in a one-party state.

They’re all double speak forked tongued grandstanders. Can’t remember the last one I liked.

It’s as obvious as the nose on your face that we’re a one party state when the best candidate the Libs can come up with is Matthew Guy.

 

[7577969923]

Our first case was early March. The announcement was on made on March 31st during a lockdown and during a significant daily rise through an unvaccinated populace. While I agree that making such an announcement can quite rightly be attributed to political gamesmanship I do think there was genuine panic at that stage, so it was probably a case of 'sh*t, we need to do something' and then milking that strategy for all it was worth. This was also at the same time that hospitals were modelling their potential ICU demand against projected numbers and where shittign their dacks. I know one hospital was preparing the set up an army style facility in their car park that would hold 250 ICU beds.

But then our numbers dropped, so it appears Dandrews dropped this promise pretty quickly as it looked like demand wasn't there. And it still isn't, but it might be. As I said, i will have a convo with someone who will know if there was any follow though on developing capacity. Will keep ya posted, might be a few weeks.

We have lived with an airborne respiratory viral pandemic for the past 18 months. A surge in case numbers and therefore hospitalisations was always an outcome with a high probability of eventuating. What you are describing is either extreme hubris or a staggering lack of scenario planning. I would suggest both.

 

[7577969923]

They’re all double speak forked tongued grandstanders. Can’t remember the last one I liked.

It’s as obvious as the nose on your face that we’re a one party state when the best candidate the Libs can come up with is Matthew Guy.

* me! If ever Matthew Guy is the answer you are clearly asking the wrong questions.

 

[Reagan Smash]

So the Poms are pretty much open at 65% vaccination rate and the NHS hasn’t collapsed
But we will still have restrictions at 80%.
State borders may still be closed. Ten people in one home etc etc.
I don’t get it.

 

[Horace]

Recent survey showed that 35% of people that got the jab believe its coercion and are against segregation being implemented.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So we can take it from that, the other 65% disagree with those people? Democracy works on majority opinion, whether you like it or not.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

We have lived with an airborne respiratory viral pandemic for the past 18 months. A surge in case numbers and therefore hospitalisations was always an outcome with a high probability of eventuating. What you are describing is either extreme hubris or a staggering lack of scenario planning. I would suggest both.

Well, no it isn't because there is a variable missing. And that is what plans were actually put in place once it was decided that the 4000 bed facility wasn't required. You are assuming that there is nothing prepared if things go south. Maybe you are right, and if so then that is a criminal lack of planning. If you are wrong and there are plans to activate and increase in ICU capacity then you are making incorrect assumptions. As I said, I will ask someone who will know what the plan is if things go bananas.

 

[Val Keating]

It's almost like people are actively cheering on for the need for these 4000 beds.

Nah it’s not that. Just sick of being lied to.

 

[7577969923]

So the Poms are pretty much open at 65% vaccination rate and the NHS hasn’t collapsed
But we will still have restrictions at 80%.
State borders may still be closed. Ten people in one home etc etc.
I don’t get it.

I'm not sure the figures are apples with apples. Our 80% target is of the 16 and over population and I'm sure their 65% is of the whole population.

From what I have read when you take into account those that are vaccinated plus those that have recovered from Covid in the UK, about 94% of the adult population has immunity.

 

[Val Keating]

So the Poms are pretty much open at 65% vaccination rate and the NHS hasn’t collapsed
But we will still have restrictions at 80%.
State borders may still be closed. Ten people in one home etc etc.
I don’t get it.

And 90% vaxxed is pipe dream type stuff. They can’t hold out for that. I reckon more then 10% of the population are not going to get the vaccine because they’re anti vaxx or because of their religious faith.

 

[7577969923]

Well, no it isn't because there is a variable missing. And that is what plans were actually put in place once it was decided that the 4000 bed facility wasn't required. You are assuming that there is nothing prepared if things go south. Maybe you are right, and if so then that is a criminal lack of planning. If you are wrong and there are plans to activate and increase in ICU capacity then you are making incorrect assumptions. As I said, I will ask someone who will know what the plan is if things go bananas.

My sister works in the system and she tells me they are cancelling a wide range of procedures because of the stress that Covid has put on them now. She says there is no evidence that any new staff have been trained up for deployment to an ICU.

I know that you will find any reason you can to let this Government off the hook but there has been a woeful lack of action on that front.

 

[7577969923]

So we can take it from that, the other 65% disagree with those people? Democracy works on majority opinion, whether you like it or not.

Guardian Essential poll: majority of Australians support vaccine mandates

Poll finds 45% think enforcement should be by federal government, 25% think states, and 31% think employers should use own judgment

www.theguardian.com

 

[Swallow_Wood]

So the Poms are pretty much open at 65% vaccination rate and the NHS hasn’t collapsed
But we will still have restrictions at 80%.
State borders may still be closed. Ten people in one home etc etc.
I don’t get it.

NHS is still kicking due to vaccinations reducing hospitalisations. They are operating at between 800 and 900 hospitalisations a day, 200 deaths a day from over 30,000 cases a day at an adult population vaccination rate of 66.9%.

Comparatively we would be between 275 and 300 hospitalisations a day, 66 deaths per day and 10,000 cases per day across the country. Looking at those numbers I'm ok with waiting another month or so to get the vaccination rates up before easing restrictions.

 

[danj]

They seem to have been caught out on that one.

Check out the date of the announcement last year, clearly an Aprils Fools Joke, sucked in Lib's LOL

 

[Swallow_Wood]

My sister works in the system and she tells me they are cancelling a wide range of procedures because of the stress that Covid has put on them now. She says there is no evidence that any new staff have been trained up for deployment to an ICU.

I know that you will find any reason you can to let this Government off the hook but there has been a woeful lack of action on that front.

Holy * dude, I don't give two *s about this government and have never voted for them and never will. Just calling it how I see it. You seem far more invested in hanging them that I am in supporting them.

Whist I'm sure you do have a sister in the system I will ask my contact as they have become increasingly heavily involved in planning activities around this at a state level so I will let you know what he tells me.

 

[7577969923]

And 90% vaxxed is pipe dream type stuff. They can’t hold out for that. I reckon more then 10% of the population are not going to get the vaccine because they’re anti vaxx or because of their religious faith.

Agree. I think opening up is actually a key component of getting the vax rate from good (70% to 80%) to very good (90% plus) There are some people that won't get the jab until real fear from an up surge in cases or genuine FOMO from not being able to go to the pub kicks in.

 

[Horace]

It’s a standing joke on here that Horace has lived forever, but it’s worth you remembering that there are posters here who fall into the more vulnerable categories for age and other reasons, who are more likely to wind up in ICU and more likely to die if they catch COVID. If that’s not you and you will be comfortable reading about COVID deaths and accepting that’s collateral damage for you being able to a less restricted life, good for you, but it’s poor form to mock anyone who knows they will be at risk and will choose (that word again) to be extra cautious.

Not only have "I lived forever", but also I work with a number of people, aged from in their late 60's to early 90's and having spoken to all of them on more than one occasion over the last 18 months, all of them, yes all of them, are fearful of contracting covid-19, all of them got vaccinated as soon as they possibly could, all of them are happy to live restricted lives in lockdown until such time as it is safer to move back closer to normal. And I want all of them to be as safe as is possible in this pandemic because they are also my good friends. They also are people with opinions right across the political spectrum.

Many of them also recall the sacrifices and hardship that had to be made during the 2nd World War. A war that lasted 6 long years. I spoke to one of them this afternoon, who is aged 84 and recalls living through that War, with blackout curtains on the windows where she lived with her parents, as just one example.

We think no generation has ever had it harder than what we are experiencing today, which is so wrong. In my opinion the reality is that for those who have only experienced living in Post War Australia, by and large we have been spoilt.

The reality also is that events of this nature, have occurred multiple times right through history; and will continue to occur for as long as this Planet circles the Sun. If we would all accept what is happening right now with a little bit of equanimity, a little bit of compassion, a high level of admiration for our healthcare workers and a little bit of patience, we will eventually get to the other side of this.

Nothing is forever.

 

[B4Bear]

The announcement about the expansion in ICU capacity was made 18 months ago. That is ample time to have staffed up for a significant proportion of those beds. They clearly saw the obvious that a surge in cases and hospitalisations was always a highly probable outcome during this pandemic but they haven't followed through. That is incompetence which ever way you look at it.

Where are they going to get 4K extra is what I am saying.

They have to be trained, and that depletes other nursing areas.

My point is it will take many, many years to train them all.

 

[7577969923]

Where are they going to get 4K extra is what I am saying.

They have to be trained, and that depletes other nursing areas.

My point is it will take many, many years to train them all.

I don't think 4,000 was ever going to happen. That would have been more than the total existing ICU capacity in Australia. An extra 500 to 1,000 beds that can be rapidly deployed would make a huge difference.

They would have put a lot more effort and resources into surge capacity and training up staff though. The reality is a lot of other areas will be pulled back in a surge of covid, particularly elective surgery.

There is no point in making a huge announcement like that during the middle of a pandemic if it cant be delivered for years.

 

[B4Bear]

I don't think 4,000 was ever going to happen. That would have been more than the total existing ICU capacity in Australia. An extra 500 to 1,000 beds that can be rapidly deployed would make a huge difference.

They would have put a lot more effort and resources into surge capacity and training up staff though. The reality is a lot of other areas will be pulled back in a surge of covid, particularly elective surgery.

There is no point in making a huge announcement like that during the middle of a pandemic if it cant be delivered for years.

I actually agree on the 4K number. It was an obviously panic move, as seen with hindsight. But I am also sure the health department are doing everything in their power to bolster their capacity and capabilities.

We live in a world where instant gratification and satisfaction is demanded, and is often delivered; until something of consequence is needed. Then you need time, and all the political bitching can not change that.