Strategy The tall big bodied midfielder

[sr36]

That might be a little unfair, very young and raw, let's see how his development goes before declaring lack of footy smarts.

I meant smarts for midfield. Need another level to a forward pocket.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I meant smarts for midfield. Need another level to a forward pocket.

Yeah I gathered what you meant, we don't know how he's going to develop. From what we've seen so far, he can make use of opportunity - as a forward. Still young in mind but has the physical attributes to make it as either and those attributes may improve also. I think he can make it as a pressure / defensive forward.

 

[sr36]

Yeah I gathered what you meant, we don't know how he's going to develop. From what we've seen so far, he can make use of opportunity - as a forward. Still young in mind but has the physical attributes to make it as either and those attributes may improve also. I think he can make it as a pressure / defensive forward.

I do too. Needs to develop some more ways to get the footy though. Improvement in both hitting at the footy and getting front and centre would be good - rather than just mainly being a chasing predator.

 

[Quicky]

Perhaps the biggest subplot of the 2021 Grand Final was the Cristian Petracca show versus the Marcus Bontempelli show.

One of those two was always destined to wear the Norm Smith around their neck.

Petracca 186cm, 97kg, 25 yo
Bontempelli 192cm, 85kg, 25 yo

The modern ‘it’ player seems to be the tall, strong, big bodied midfielder who oozes onfield leadership, and who can rip a game apart by themselves.

Nick ‘The messiah’ Daicos as amazingly amazing as he is, has much the same body type as John Noble. Yes I’m serious. So Saint Nickolas doesn’t project as that player.

Candidates on our list today …

Jordan DeGoey 188cm, 92kg, 25 yo
Brayden Sier 191, 88kg, 23 yo
Tyler Brown 188, 77kg, 21 yo
Reef McInnis 192, 84kg, 19 yo

(Scott Pendlebury 191, 91kg, 33 yo)

Pendlebury is obviously a different kind of player and he’s in his autumn years. He’s not really that inside type player who uses his strength to beat his enemies into submission.

DeGoey is the same generation as Petracca and Bontempelli, but clearly hasn’t reached anything like their consistency. Would require some maturity to catch up.

Sier has the height, has the body, has the strength, but projects zero leadership. Would require some serious redemption to justify staying on the list, let alone fulfilling his physical potential and becoming a dominant player of the competition.

Tyler Brown, dunno if he has the frame to put on that much bulk?

Reef - dunno much about him, except that he won’t reach Petracca / Bontempelli / DeGoey’s current level of age and experience until the year 2027.

Do we need one of these players to step up? Do we need to recruit another? Do competitive teams need this kind of player?

+ Crisp at 190cm is another option.

Really De Goey is the guy with the potential to reach the same ball park as Trac and Bont appreciating those two are something else.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I do too. Needs to develop some more ways to get the footy though. Improvement in both hitting at the footy and getting front and centre would be good - rather than just mainly being a chasing predator.

From what we've seen so far, that seems his natural game - hunt the player with ball and score from turnover (simplistic view point I know). Will be interesting to see how the coaches develop his game.

I have confidence they'll breed good habits and add bows to his game.

 

[Carringbush2010]

+ Crisp at 190cm is another option.

Really De Goey is the guy with the potential to reach the same ball park as Trac and Bont appreciating those two are something else.

Yep exactly this, players with Goeys attributes well there's less than half a dozen league wide.

Crisp is a different kettle, has height and speed but doesn't have the explosiveness like a Danger, Trac, Dusty or Goey.

None the less Crisp is certainly a great mid option, smart decision maker (generally) and a good user to boot.

 

[Harry O]

Imagine being a saints fan watching the Bont and Petracca dominate.

Billings and McCartin doesn’t quite Have the same ring does it

 

[What is a cakewalk]

Not sure what all the discussion is about. Blokes with the calibre of a petracca or bont. Do we have one? No. Should we draft one? I reckon we should draft about 6 if we can...

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not sure what all the discussion is about. Blokes with the calibre of a petracca or bont. Do we have one? No. Should we draft one? I reckon we should draft about 6 if we can...

To answer your question, yes (potentially)

Secondly, players with physical attributes like Trac or De Goey (the potential) don't grow on trees and are much rarer then that match winning key forward we need, so no we won't be drafting one anytime soon.

 

[manicpie]

I din't think size has anything to do with it. They could be 172cm tall, but if they can't get clearances they are just as good as someone who is 193cm and 95kg

 

[Markfs]

I din't think size has anything to do with it. They could be 172cm tall, but if they can't get clearances they are just as good as someone who is 193cm and 95kg

i think the point is that size matters when it comes to extracting the ball and breaking tackles on the way out..... hence clearances

 

[barrackers]

Far from an exact match, however I'd like to see Maynard get his fitness up and get a decent crack in the midfield. Has the strength, size and pace (2.98sec 20m in his draft year - just an example as I couldn't find recent figures), but may lack the match winning x-factor.

 

[partypie]

Sier glacial speed also different to the others mentioned.

Incorrect - Sier is actually quick for a big-bodied midfielder both off the mark and for top end speed and that's goes all the way back to his draft year.

Running off the ball is generally suspect due to his questionable endurance yes, as are his effort levels at the stoppages on occasion, but a lack of speed and power in his game is definitely not one of his short comings.

If you're going to pot the bloke then fine, but at least pick out the areas he is actually sub-standard in.

 

[Hotpiescoldbeers]

We also need a good tap ruckman to feed it to them. The chemistry between gawn
And the mids is first class, while Grundy just taps it to his own feet and gets possession himself

 

[manicpie]

i think the point is that size matters when it comes to extracting the ball and breaking tackles on the way out..... hence clearances

Someone like Rodan at his best was small but powerful enough to break tackles, actually, being really small can make it even harder for players to tackle them without getting them in the head, ala selwood

 

[partypie]

Back on topic - Reef is the guy you don't want to be sleeping on.

He's very much slipped below the radar but he'll quickly gain a following once he gets his chance at AFL level, as he's got that genuine ability to have a significant impact on a game in a 10-15 minute burst of dominant football that not many young kids have.

A lot of midfield prospects nowadays falling into the "accumulator" steroeotype without having a massive impact in terms of taking the game by the scruff when needed, but Reef is definitely not one of those and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised (or perhaps just reminded for some) when he does get up and running.

 

[sr36]

Far from an exact match, however I'd like to see Maynard get his fitness up and get a decent crack in the midfield. Has the strength, size and pace (2.98sec 20m in his draft year - just an example as I couldn't find recent figures), but may lack the match winning x-factor.

If you can crack in, have clean hand, win clearances, use it OK and link up on the outside, you win matches, x-factor rarely does.

 

[barrackers]

If you can crack in, have clean hand, win clearances, use it OK and link up on the outside, you win matches, x-factor rarely does.

Probably the wrong word, but couldn't find a better one without writing a full paragraph. Plenty can win clearances etc, but few have that extra gear to lift and carry their side to a win like Petracca, Martin, Bontempelli to use a few current players. These types also have the added ability to kick clutch goals from opportunistic or difficult chances.

 

[sr36]

Probably the wrong word, but couldn't find a better one without writing a full paragraph. Plenty can win clearances etc, but few have that extra gear to lift and carry their side to a win like Petracca, Martin, Bontempelli to use a few current players. These types also have the added ability to kick clutch goals from opportunistic or difficult chances.

Yeah those three are just so incredibly complete - brutes with awesome skills and just so much confidence to do things that others can't. Guys like Libba, Prestia, Neale, Wines, don't pull off much of that - but they've helped their teams win a heap of games.

 

[jathanas]

Perhaps the biggest subplot of the 2021 Grand Final was the Cristian Petracca show versus the Marcus Bontempelli show.

One of those two was always destined to wear the Norm Smith around their neck.

Petracca 186cm, 97kg, 25 yo
Bontempelli 192cm, 85kg, 25 yo

The modern ‘it’ player seems to be the tall, strong, big bodied midfielder who oozes onfield leadership, and who can rip a game apart by themselves.

Nick ‘The messiah’ Daicos as amazingly amazing as he is, has much the same body type as John Noble. Yes I’m serious. So Saint Nickolas doesn’t project as that player.

Candidates on our list today …

Jordan DeGoey 188cm, 92kg, 25 yo
Brayden Sier 191, 88kg, 23 yo
Tyler Brown 188, 77kg, 21 yo
Reef McInnis 192, 84kg, 19 yo

(Scott Pendlebury 191, 91kg, 33 yo)

Pendlebury is obviously a different kind of player and he’s in his autumn years. He’s not really that inside type player who uses his strength to beat his enemies into submission.

DeGoey is the same generation as Petracca and Bontempelli, but clearly hasn’t reached anything like their consistency. Would require some maturity to catch up.

Sier has the height, has the body, has the strength, but projects zero leadership. Would require some serious redemption to justify staying on the list, let alone fulfilling his physical potential and becoming a dominant player of the competition.

Tyler Brown, dunno if he has the frame to put on that much bulk?

Reef - dunno much about him, except that he won’t reach Petracca / Bontempelli / DeGoey’s current level of age and experience until the year 2027.

Do we need one of these players to step up? Do we need to recruit another? Do competitive teams need this kind of player?

Midfielders are getting bigger and more powerful. Bont is big-bodied but not explosive like Trac. Dusty is obviously the other star of that calibre.

Our beacon of hope is JDG and whilst he hasn't produced consistently he was higher rated than Trac in 2018.

JDG finished the year off playing as a big-bodied powerful midfielder so the answer is staring us in the face. We're unlucky that for one reason or another it hasn't gelled... yet.

 

[Quicky]

Back on topic - Reef is the guy you don't want to be sleeping on.

He's very much slipped below the radar but he'll quickly gain a following once he gets his chance at AFL level, as he's got that genuine ability to have a significant impact on a game in a 10-15 minute burst of dominant football that not many young kids have.

A lot of midfield prospects nowadays falling into the "accumulator" steroeotype without having a massive impact in terms of taking the game by the scruff when needed, but Reef is definitely not one of those and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised (or perhaps just reminded for some) when he does get up and running.

The thing I like about McInnes is his tackling. I think that might get him games early because as a minimum he's adding a lot of heat at the contest. That's good while ge gains experience. He also has that explosiveness to be a real weapon. He has very ordinary endurance though and given his interrupted preseason I think that's a few years away.

 

[Markfs]

Someone like Rodan at his best was small but powerful enough to break tackles, actually, being really small can make it even harder for players to tackle them without getting them in the head, ala selwood

its a good point. In the final analysis, a player's attitude might be more important

 

[What is a cakewalk]

To answer your question, yes (potentially)

Secondly, players with physical attributes like Trac or De Goey (the potential) don't grow on trees and are much rarer then that match winning key forward we need, so no we won't be drafting one anytime soon.

Apologies, my post was pretty tongue in cheek. Just think that yeah it's probably a good idea to try and draft guys as good as petracca and bont. They were both at the extreme end of the draft for a reason. As for the key forward thing we do need one but we also need to be careful. St kilda used that criteria to separate petracca and mccartin.

 

[sr36]

The thing I like about McInnes is his tackling. I think that might get him games early because as a minimum he's adding a lot of heat at the contest. That's good while ge gains experience. He also has that explosiveness to be a real weapon. He has very ordinary endurance though and given his interrupted preseason I think that's a few years away.

Is his endurance too low to cut his teeth in another area of the ground?

 

[Quicky]

Is his endurance too low to cut his teeth in another area of the ground?

I think McInnes could play forward easily enough. He's a natural up forward. I'd expect him to rotate forward and midfield to begin. We'll have to wait and see what his endurance will allow. I do think the quicker we can get footy games into McInnes, Macrae and Nick Daicos the closer we're gonna be to a refreshed midfield group.