Hot Topic Trade/Free Agency Talk 2021 edition

[RPCB]

God Kane Cornes is an absolute spud. Hewett played 20 games this year.

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“Absolutely blows my mind”: Reported offers for “fringe players” questioned

"That makes no sense."

www.sen.com.au

It’s almost as bad as Michael Owen saying he remembered watching Leeds United’s goalkeeper playing for the clubs academy side as a 16 year old. Leeds United bought the goalkeeper from France when he was 19, only two years ago.

Hewett has played no less than 21 games in 5 of his 6 AFL seasons so it’s not even like Cornes is remotely right that Hewett “can’t get a game”. What a spud.

 

[KnobHead]

If we’re giving pick 6 and some for Cerra, then Freo have to give us Pavlich as well


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[BrisbaneCFC]

Wing is probably the role that requires the highest endurance to run up and down the ground all game. Williams ain't got that, and I don't think Martin either.

Half back and half forward are where they have played their best football. Why try and make them something they arent?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Pretty confident 6 will do for Cerra.

Should be done in the first 5 minutes of trade week. Thats how simple this deal should be. But we all know it wont be.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

It’s almost as bad as Michael Owen saying he remembered watching Leeds United’s goalkeeper playing for the clubs academy side as a 16 year old. Leeds United bought the goalkeeper from France when he was 19, only two years ago.

Hewett has played no less than 21 games in 5 of his 6 AFL seasons so it’s not even like Cornes is remotely right that Hewett “can’t get a game”. What a spud.

I must have missed that one, what a muppet. Did he get him confused with Peacock-Farrell?

Meslier going great guns though

 

[RPCB]

I must have missed that one, what a muppet. Did he get him confused with Peacock-Farrell?

Meslier going great guns though

That’s the clip. Doing the rounds that Owen is talking about Meslier.

 

[GordonBlue]

Agree to disagree.

I'm confident we will and comfortable with paying slightly more than 6 in the way I proposed. You're vastly underrating Cerra (and the 2017 draft) but that's just my opinion.

If you rate him what you seem to be, he would be the best player we have traded in since Chris Judd. Hell, I remember we made more noise about Robbie Warnock.

 

[Metalcrusher]

If you rate him what you seem to be, he would be the best player we have traded in since Chris Judd. Hell, I remember we made more noise about Robbie Warnock.

Don't mention the War .....

 

[GordonBlue]

Yarran and Menzel.

Disagree re Yarran. Richmond knew they were buying a player that if they can get him on the straight and narrow, could be close everything and some. But they also knew there was equal chance he could fall off the cliff. It was a gamble that THEY took and did not work out.

As for Menzel, didn't we trade our pick 12 for Pick 28? In that period, he also showed more than what Brander has shown.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Pick 6 only for Cerra or we draft him for pick 6. I can't see Hawks using pick 5 on him if he doesn't want to go there, and all other clubs before us are interstate.

It's interesting - how much weight does a nominated club have on a player movement?
Suppose he doesn't want to go to any other Victorian club by CFC, but Freo wants to deal with Hawks for a better offer - what then?

 

[GordonBlue]

It’s almost as bad as Michael Owen saying he remembered watching Leeds United’s goalkeeper playing for the clubs academy side as a 16 year old. Leeds United bought the goalkeeper from France when he was 19, only two years ago.

Hewett has played no less than 21 games in 5 of his 6 AFL seasons so it’s not even like Cornes is remotely right that Hewett “can’t get a game”. What a spud.

PERRRRRRRRFECT comparison. Kane Cornes is our Michael Owen!!! I cannot believe these guys get paid for their opinions on the game.

 

[Jeremias]

AT 700K we should not be looking at him either. Paying huge overs just to get someone into the club will just cause division and stop us paying players that deserve it (Walsh) more.

That's a lot of assumptions made on the back of a media report which may or may not be accurate (read: it's almost certainly inaccurate given the media never reports contracts accurately), but which certainly would not tell the whole story.

Is it 700k fixed across the entire duration of the contract?
Is it 700k inclusive of various performance triggers?
Is the contract heavily front-ended or back-ended so that it fits into the payment structure set up by the club and such that it doesn't hinder our ability to keep our core group together and well compensated?

Suggesting bringing in Cerra will cause division at the club and prevent us from signing Walsh is a very long bow. There's just no basis for this at all.

 

[JuddgementDay]

If we’re giving pick 6 and some for Cerra, then Freo have to give us Pavlich as well


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YEah, Pavlich is coming as an assistant coach

 

[BlueTongue]

That's a lot of assumptions made on the back of a media report which may or may not be accurate (read: it's almost certainly inaccurate given the media never reports contracts accurately), but which certainly would not tell the whole story.

Is it 700k fixed across the entire duration of the contract?
Is it 700k inclusive of various performance triggers?
Is the contract heavily front-ended or back-ended so that it fits into the payment structure set up by the club and such that it doesn't hinder our ability to keep our core group together and well compensated?

Suggesting bringing in Cerra will cause division at the club and prevent us from signing Walsh is a very long bow. There's just no basis for this at all.

You are of course correct but my post was more of a generalization looking at the recent recruitment of Martin, Williams and Saad.
I don't know what they are paid but if the media is around the mark then I stand by the original point.

I'm not against Players lookingafter their future best interests, but in short - players in good teams like Hawthorn & Richmond make sacrifices for the good of the team.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

It’s almost as bad as Michael Owen saying he remembered watching Leeds United’s goalkeeper playing for the clubs academy side as a 16 year old. Leeds United bought the goalkeeper from France when he was 19, only two years ago.

Hewett has played no less than 21 games in 5 of his 6 AFL seasons so it’s not even like Cornes is remotely right that Hewett “can’t get a game”. What a spud.

I totally ignore anything Cornes has to say, works wonders…

 

[Jeremias]

You are of course correct but my post was more of a generalization looking at the recent recruitment of Martin, Williams and Saad.
I don't know what they are paid but if the media is around the mark then I stand by the original point.

The original point being it'll put players already at the club offside, and we won't be able to pay our out of contract players what they are worth?

How many have been put offside or left the club because of these big name recruits?
And how has it impacted our ability to re-sign players we've wanted to re-sign? Note both Cripps and Harry re-signed this year.

 

[Metalcrusher]

If we’re giving pick 6 and some for Cerra, then Freo have to give us Pavlich as well


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About time! Should have happened in 1986! FFS!

 

[Arr0w]

Interesting that SOS admitted that we probably cut to deep in the Bolton years.

Not sure who we should have retained?

Probably meant that we should have ensured we targeted senior players

What do they do if we don't budge?

Pick 6 is hardly something you turn down to make a point

Richmond gave up 6 for prestia, seems about right to me

Total value for Prestia was pick 4, Cerra slightly younger and more versatile

Brander has not been offered a new contract. SPS has been advised that the Club wishes to retain him, however he wants to leave.

SPS has class and we know he has potential. It's is simply in the mind.

Brander, his ability is still in question.

SPS worth more than Brander.

FWIW, when was the last time Carlton "won" a trade? Apart from the Fevola and Gibbs trades, every other trade has us either overpaying or breaking even.

Robinson was "average" playing for us however "great player" at the Lions
Tuohy was "just an Irish player" for us, however "almost AA at Cats"
Waite we couldn't even get a compo pick for him

Yet, someone we manage to get in "future AA and Brownlow medalists" from other clubs and question the trade by Round 2.

They are both out of contract, thats all that matters, whether they were offered contracts or not.

Not sure what past trades we have done has anything to do with the value of the 2 players, winning/losing trades shouldn't be judged on paper. Robinson should never have been cleared out, 2E was a head scratcher, Marchbank being injured doesn't help, but neither of those deals have anything to do with this one. If you are looking to "win" a trade, then you already lost, especially if an uncontracted player is adamant he wants out

SPS and Brander are both undervalued, given their output, simple as that. It may go down as a straight swap, would that satisfy you? Better still, lay out a trade scenario that you think is adequate/likely and we can all assess it

 

[Kings of Lygon]

If you rate him what you seem to be, he would be the best player we have traded in since Chris Judd. Hell, I remember we made more noise about Robbie Warnock.

I think he will easily be the best player we've brought in since Judd.

I think we got great value for Newman and Plowman and have mostly been on board with a lot of the work SOS did - but none of them since Judd were 'big trades' maybe outside of Saad. McGovern we paid what seemed like a good enough deal I thought, but he hasn't worked out at all. Martin was supposed to be a big fish who hasn't panned out either and we didn't need to trade for him anyway. Setterfield was as highly rated as Cerra pre-draft but didn't even have a quarter of the runs on the board when we got him for a 2nd and some trimmings.

The Setterfield trade comparison is actually pretty appropriate in my mind. We gave up a future 2nd and a 3rd for Setters and a 4th. What I'm proposing/expecting isn't much different to that, except Cerra's exposed form and promise accounts for the picks being moved up a round. Like I said, happy to agree to disagree but it would seem about right for me.

 

[BlueTongue]

The original point being it'll put players already at the club offside, and we won't be able to pay our out of contract players what they are worth?

How many have been put offside or left the club because of these big name recruits?
And how has it impacted our ability to re-sign players we've wanted to re-sign? Note both Cripps and Harry re-signed this year.

OK it is opinion, a guess, but don't pretend like you know the answer. In recent times, I'll also hazard a guess that Eddie Betts & Zack Touhy at the expense of Daisy Thomas.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Total value for Prestia was pick 4, Cerra slightly younger and more versatile

"Following protracted negotiations between the two clubs, Prestia became a Tiger in exchange for pick six in this year’s national draft and a second-round selection in the 2017 draft. Richmond also received this year’s draft pick 24 as part of the trade deal."

Richmonds 2017 second rounder they gave up ended up being Pick 27

So the deal looked like this

Richmond Loses 2016 Pick 6, 2017 Pick 27, Gains Prestia + 2016 Pick 24
GWS Loses Pick 24, Prestia, Gains 2016 Pick 6, 2017 Pick 27.

If you do the math it equates to around Pick 7 the Tuggers got it done for ...

Hope this helps

 

[Arr0w]

Doesn't work that way. Cerra was picked up in the weakest draft that I can remember. He has been Good. He is fair value for what he was picked at, especially in a weak draft.

He now wants to leave. So we pay what his value is.

If they want more than Pick 6, then they are and you are overrating Cerra.

Let's not pretend he has set the world on fire. He has just been solid. This is the reason why no one in here is jumping up and down about him. Let's not pretend he is better than what he is.

Can Pick 6 in this year draft be better than Cerra? I would say 50% chance yes. That equates to equal value.

Where players were drafted has nothing to do with their value when trading them 2, 5 or 8 years later. It's based on current and projected output and how many years they have left in the game. We overpaid for Saad, especially given that we hadn't cemented ourselves in the 8.

As for players in the draft, this draft, while I can see upside in players around that pick, it is still a lottery. Why would you take a 50/50 change when there is a known quantity ?

 

[Jeremias]

OK it is opinion, a guess, but don't pretend like you know the answer.

The answer to what?

I'm just saying let's all wait and see what happens rather than jump to conclusions on the back of a figure being thrown around in the media, which I'd say 99 times out of 100 is off the mark.

In recent times, I'll also hazard a guess that Eddie Betts & Zack Touhy at the expense of Daisy Thomas.

From memory, Betts left for money we didn't want to give him, not that we couldn't afford to. Think it was something like 50k p/a.

Tuohy left three years after Thomas came. We low-balled him in the hope he'd leave - we needed a first round pick to send to the Giants for Marchbank, and Zac was seen as someone we could part ways with. Reckon we could have paid him if we wanted to.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Where players were drafted has nothing to do with their value when trading them 2, 5 or 8 years later. It's based on current and projected output and how many years they have left in the game. We overpaid for Saad, especially given that we hadn't cemented ourselves in the 8.

As for players in the draft, this draft, while I can see upside in players around that pick, it is still a lottery. Why would you take a 50/50 change when there is a known quantity ?

BINGO! You win the interweb today!

 

[Arr0w]

"Following protracted negotiations between the two clubs, Prestia became a Tiger in exchange for pick six in this year’s national draft and a second-round selection in the 2017 draft. Richmond also received this year’s draft pick 24 as part of the trade deal."

Richmonds 2017 second rounder they gave up ended up being Pick 27

So the deal looked like this

Richmond Loses 2016 Pick 6, 2017 Pick 27, Gains Prestia + 2016 Pick 24
GWS Loses Pick 24, Prestia, Gains 2016 Pick 6, 2017 Pick 27.

If you do the math it equates to around Pick 7 the Tuggers got it done for ...

Hope this helps

At the time of trade, it was 6 and 24, for 38. Like this year, those numbers changed with F/S, academy.