Who feels sorry for St Kilda - the only drought remaining!

[The Airing of Grievances]

For most supporters of interstate clubs, our club chooses us rather than vice versa. Being from Perth almost everyone into footy followed the Eagles (most were into AFL, and many also had a WAFL club), cos they were the WA team, the Perth team, you didn't even question it. When Freo came some of these Eagles fans switched for various reasons. So following the Eagles to me is as much about WA state identity as anything else. The idea of having 9 teams in your city to choose seems kind of weird really.

You make an interesting point. What often surprises me is how many people on BF who live in Perth actually follow non WA AFL clubs. Obviously there's quite a bit of interstate migration to WA, particularly since the mining boom, but some seem to have been in WA for many years.

 

[master bate]

Maybe it is because you have zero idea on St Kila's list

Especially when you say sh*t like this "Salem would comfortably be your second best player.", Salem is a slightly better Jimmy Webster.

Do you even know who Wilkie, Howard, Coffield, Clark, Sinclair, Byrnes, Bytel, Connonly, Sharman, Butler, Higgins are?

I love Wilkie, super honest. And Howard's very good with the occasional down game. If Highmore is the answer as 3rd tall then the Saints are back in business. With Webster back in form and Paton coming back next year the Saints have the makings of a very strong backline.

Coffield had a downright disastrous start to the season, I know the coaches like him and he was good in 2020 but he's always seemed very limited for a top pick. I feel like Jake Kelly going to the Bombers is pretty much the same player, 4th tall who can do a bit of this and that without really a lot of upside. He won't be an elite interceptor at his size and without a leap, isn't a great user, isn't a lockdown on dangerous smalls or talls type.

Sinclair is one of my favourite players in the comp. Clark needs a breakout season kept in one role, maybe he's just a half back flanker but a really good one? You know, like Christian Salem, who was one of the best players in the grand final and clearly the best half back in the comp for the first half of this year until he was managed with some groin soreness.

Connolly is nice but I guess there's a question of where he fits in the saints best 22 and whether he'll be up to the pressure of big games. At worst a nice depth piece off half back.

Byrnes is a nice half forward/rotation mid, like his pace, attack and he's got enough skill. Bytel's had a lot of hype but from what I've seen he's vanilla as they come, I don't understand that, doesn't seem to have any particular strength to his game. Byrnes went passed him at a rate of knots.

Butler fell back down to earth but bounced back a little, he's a solid role player more than a star. Higgins took half a season to play himself in to playing shape. I'm surprised the footy media didn't pick it up. He was as fat as can be and nowhere near it for the first half of the year. He's all class on the field, but you have to worry about a guy who walks out on Richmond because it was all a bit hard.

Sharman's a talent, he's a little taller but reminds me a lot of Fritsch. I'd probably put him in the maybe basket now than an outright yes right away. His games were good more than great until the last game where he outmarked Alex Pearce not through any size, strength or athleticism but Pearce's inability to read the play at all in the wind. That Sharman could read the drop is promising but I want to see a bit more first. Good pick up though.

The Saints have a deep list that's more than capable of pushing for a top 4 spot. The backline should be great. The midfield is deep. The forward line has some weapons. But the back up ruck to allow Marshall to go forward and unlock the forward lines best capabilities and the midfield top end talent are the worry. Plus injuries and general of lack of successful culture that is probably made worse by a bit of a mercenary feel with all the imports of late.

I've got no doubt Jack Steele will be driving the group hard. I do have a bit of a doubt on whether Hill, Crouch, Howard, Higgins and even guys like Billings and Gresham want to be great though.

 

[Coach_Required]

Would be better if it was Carlton.

 

[PerthBoy86]

You make an interesting point. What often surprises me is how many people on BF who live in Perth actually follow non WA AFL clubs. Obviously there's quite a bit of interstate migration to WA, particularly since the mining boom, but some seem to have been in WA for many years.

Some followed VFL prior to WC's entry, but that was before I was born. I have no idea how often VFL games were broadcast on telly in Western Australia back then. Like how much could you get into it if you couldn't watch any games? WAFL was obviously bigger, but once the Eagles entered they took over. There are some old West Australian fans of other clubs but a small minority. Had a mate who followed St Kilda for some reason, even though he'd lived here almost his whole life and no links to them. And yeah many Victorians etc in Perth.

 

[PJays]

Anybody with an empathetic bone in their body should feel for St Kilda fans.

Honestly find me another sport where someone got as close as St Kilda did in 2009 and 2010 without triumphing. And off the back of 97, 04 and 05 being right there.

My footy watching life has spanned 30 odd years. Every other Victorian club has saluted in that time (except Fitzroy of course).

And, this GF was torturous- knowing we could've had Petracca and Bont but chose McCartin and Billings.

On the other hand, it's good to know the little guys can win in the AFL. 2 non power clubs competing for a flag does give a glimmer of hope. None of the big guys even made a prelim, incredibly.

 

[lewdogs]

IMO you need to bottom out and nail consecutive early drafts to compete for a flag.

Your list at it’s best IMO can make finals , but even then as much as I hate to say it there’s teams around you like the Blues who have more upside. Finals is great and all but if you’re not winning it all you are doing is prolonging a proper rebuild.

So we should tank.

Yeah no thanks. Honestly don't see how you can be so sure of our list. Look at Richmond in 2017 no one thought they had a premiership list. The idea that we should tank so we can get two more high draft picks is insanity.

 

[PaddyMcClunkin]

I love Wilkie, super honest. And Howard's very good with the occasional down game. If Highmore is the answer as 3rd tall then the Saints are back in business. With Webster back in form and Paton coming back next year the Saints have the makings of a very strong backline.

Coffield had a downright disastrous start to the season, I know the coaches like him and he was good in 2020 but he's always seemed very limited for a top pick. I feel like Jake Kelly going to the Bombers is pretty much the same player, 4th tall who can do a bit of this and that without really a lot of upside. He won't be an elite interceptor at his size and without a leap, isn't a great user, isn't a lockdown on dangerous smalls or talls type.

Sinclair is one of my favourite players in the comp. Clark needs a breakout season kept in one role, maybe he's just a half back flanker but a really good one? You know, like Christian Salem, who was one of the best players in the grand final and clearly the best half back in the comp for the first half of this year until he was managed with some groin soreness.

Connolly is nice but I guess there's a question of where he fits in the saints best 22 and whether he'll be up to the pressure of big games. At worst a nice depth piece off half back.

Byrnes is a nice half forward/rotation mid, like his pace, attack and he's got enough skill. Bytel's had a lot of hype but from what I've seen he's vanilla as they come, I don't understand that, doesn't seem to have any particular strength to his game. Byrnes went passed him at a rate of knots.

Butler fell back down to earth but bounced back a little, he's a solid role player more than a star. Higgins took half a season to play himself in to playing shape. I'm surprised the footy media didn't pick it up. He was as fat as can be and nowhere near it for the first half of the year. He's all class on the field, but you have to worry about a guy who walks out on Richmond because it was all a bit hard.

Sharman's a talent, he's a little taller but reminds me a lot of Fritsch. I'd probably put him in the maybe basket now than an outright yes right away. His games were good more than great until the last game where he outmarked Alex Pearce not through any size, strength or athleticism but Pearce's inability to read the play at all in the wind. That Sharman could read the drop is promising but I want to see a bit more first. Good pick up though.

The Saints have a deep list that's more than capable of pushing for a top 4 spot. The backline should be great. The midfield is deep. The forward line has some weapons. But the back up ruck to allow Marshall to go forward and unlock the forward lines best capabilities and the midfield top end talent are the worry. Plus injuries and general of lack of successful culture that is probably made worse by a bit of a mercenary feel with all the imports of late.

I've got no doubt Jack Steele will be driving the group hard. I do have a bit of a doubt on whether Hill, Crouch, Howard, Higgins and even guys like Billings and Gresham want to be great though.

Some more than fair analysis here from an opposition supporter.

Coffield did have a terrible year apart from the last couple of weeks where he found his feet again. He is I think an above average ball user with good vision in transition and has elite speed off the mark (2.91 second 20m sprint). The issue is that he is a confidence player and his attributes are as good as useless when playing conservatively. I expect Coffield to bounce back and have a much better year in 2022.

Bytel I agree tends to get overrated a bit by our supporters but is a good user on both sides of the body by hand and foot and cracks in hard. Doesn't seem to have the potential to become a top shelf mid but could still play plenty of high quality games for us in the future so we will wait and see.

Byrnes and Connolly are both very exciting prospects in my eyes. Both are extremely good ball users, move well through traffic and have good turn of pace. Main thing for those two now is building up some fitness and finding the ball a bit more, something more easily said than done. Byrnes has a few more runs on the board but they are still just potential so can't be too sure how they turn out.

Many opposition supporters are calling the need for a full rebuild and it may be my bias but I just can't see it.

 

[Beerfish]

You make an interesting point. What often surprises me is how many people on BF who live in Perth actually follow non WA AFL clubs. Obviously there's quite a bit of interstate migration to WA, particularly since the mining boom, but some seem to have been in WA for many years.

Not all of us decided to jump off the club we'd been supporting for years just because a new 'local' club had been conceived. I mean I'd just seen my club go back to back.

 

[00Stinger]

I do hope the Saints win one over the next few years

Just after we win a couple more hopefully

 

[Rich01]

Honestly find me another sport where someone got as close as St Kilda did in 2009 and 2010 without triumphing.

This NFL Team Made it to 4 Straight Super Bowls and Lost Every Time

The Buffalo Bills were one of the best teams in the early 1990s, the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls and lost each one.

www.google.com.au

 

[The Airing of Grievances]

Not all of us decided to jump off the club we'd been supporting for years just because a new 'local' club had been conceived. I mean I'd just seen my club go back to back.

I grew up in Perth and only moved to Melbourne in early 1985. The Dons as they were usually known then were always 'my VFL' side and it was certainly a massive thrill watching in a tavern in Augusta as they powered to victory in the final quarter of the '84 GF. After 2 years living in Melbourne and going to see them every week I was sufficiently invested that I didn't switch to the Eagles in 87, but I'm pretty sure if I'd remained living in Perth state loyalty would have prevailed. There were a couple of my friends growing up who were quite strongly attached to their Melbourne side, but they tended to be the blokes who didn't go to watch their WAFL side each week.

 

[fusion]

I hope every fan gets to see their team win a premiership. It's better for the competition in general. But I don't feel "sorry" for any club - they have to make the right decisions both on field and off field to win a flag, and they just aren't given out.

 

[The Airing of Grievances]

This NFL Team Made it to 4 Straight Super Bowls and Lost Every Time

The Buffalo Bills were one of the best teams in the early 1990s, the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls and lost each one.

www.google.com.au

Yes they had a fine quarterback in Kelly , but unfortunately he and/or his offensive linemen always found someone just a bit better.

 

[Toump Ass]

So we should tank.

Yeah no thanks. Honestly don't see how you can be so sure of our list. Look at Richmond in 2017 no one thought they had a premiership list. The idea that we should tank so we can get two more high draft picks is insanity.

I never mentioned tanking.

Richmond had a pretty good bunch of players in 2017: Grimes, Rance, Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Martin. Houli, Vlaustin (Top 10 pick). Hardwick wouldn't have been under the immense pressure he was under if no one rated their list.

I don't see players of that quality coming through for St Kilda.

 

[Freomaniac]

Amazing that StKilda finished higher than Melbourne only a season ago. We don't need to bottom out we need a clean run of health for a season.

So does freo lol

 

[sharp450]

I do, i would love them to win one very soon for their supporters and past players. Fremantle as well.

 

[PJays]

This NFL Team Made it to 4 Straight Super Bowls and Lost Every Time

The Buffalo Bills were one of the best teams in the early 1990s, the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls and lost each one.

www.google.com.au

The first loss was close, with the remaining 3 being comfortable scorelines.

Apples and oranges.

Saints were leading most of the game in 2009 and went within a dodgy bounce in 2010.

But I guess the excitement and then devastation of 4 in a row possibly exceeds it. Even if they didn't get close in the actual game.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

In all honesty I think that definition waters down the meaning of the word. Statistically a drought of this magnitude would be expected from a large portion of the competition at any point. (I don't have the math skills to work it out, but I'm guessing it would be around a third of the competition). IMO The term 'Drought' should be reserved for an extraordinary trend, not an expected one.

I think a more reasonable approach would be something like two and a half times the number of teams. Historically that would mean about 30 years; in the modern competition (so for future generations) it would be about 50.

I'm about here on drought as well, for me 30 is somewhere around the mark as the magic number.

I remember Collingwood winning in 1990 felt like the end of a drought, which was what, 32 years. At present I don't personally feel like it's been an extraordinary amount of time since Carlton, North, Adelaide or certainly Essendon won one.

 

[Beerfish]

I grew up in Perth and only moved to Melbourne in early 1985. The Dons as they were usually known then were always 'my VFL' side and it was certainly a massive thrill watching in a tavern in Augusta as they powered to victory in the final quarter of the '84 GF. After 2 years living in Melbourne and going to see them every week I was sufficiently invested that I didn't switch to the Eagles in 87, but I'm pretty sure if I'd remained living in Perth state loyalty would have prevailed. There were a couple of my friends growing up who were quite strongly attached to their Melbourne side, but they tended to be the blokes who didn't go to watch their WAFL side each week.

Still feel I made the right choice. I'd be a Freo supporter anyway. Stuff changing clubs twice.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Richmond clearly had the pieces in 2017. You don’t finish 5th in 2013/15 plus have multiple AAs all over the field, Colemans and a Brownlow in the preceding years without it. Similarly us with our injury-induced 9th placed finishes and prelim, and quite a few AAs.

Not sure the Saints can point to any of that now. I’d rather have North’s list than St Kilda’s atm. Possibly even Hawthorn’s.

 

[Freomaniac]

The only drought remaining!
Swans
Geelong
Bulldogs
Richmond
Melbourne

Saints came so so close! Just feel short.

No sympathy for freo then? 27 years and no flags? lol

 

[master bate]

Some more than fair analysis here from an opposition supporter.

Coffield did have a terrible year apart from the last couple of weeks where he found his feet again. He is I think an above average ball user with good vision in transition and has elite speed off the mark (2.91 second 20m sprint). The issue is that he is a confidence player and his attributes are as good as useless when playing conservatively. I expect Coffield to bounce back and have a much better year in 2022.

Bytel I agree tends to get overrated a bit by our supporters but is a good user on both sides of the body by hand and foot and cracks in hard. Doesn't seem to have the potential to become a top shelf mid but could still play plenty of high quality games for us in the future so we will wait and see.

Byrnes and Connolly are both very exciting prospects in my eyes. Both are extremely good ball users, move well through traffic and have good turn of pace. Main thing for those two now is building up some fitness and finding the ball a bit more, something more easily said than done. Byrnes has a few more runs on the board but they are still just potential so can't be too sure how they turn out.

Many opposition supporters are calling the need for a full rebuild and it may be my bias but I just can't see it.

I feel like the Saints have had a similar breakout year to Melbourne in 2018 in 2020, then a similar year to Melbourne 2019 (disaster) - 2020 (solid comeback) all crammed in to one year last season.

Now they sit in that mid table range that a lot of teams have launched up the ladder from recently. With a deep list of young talent and experienced decent players who aren't all performing. Which also means it's an opportunity to refine the best 22 out of the guys who will perform rather than picking on reputation.

The biggest issue si top end talent and if Gresham, Clark or Brad Crouch can give Steele a hand as a genuine game changers through the midfield or high half back in the case of Clark. And if Marshall can be a proper A grader too when given the right back up (Which is Ryder if he can do it or another option).

The history of Brad Crouch is like that of the other mini draft players in Hogan, Martin and O'Meara in that their best looks amazing but an injury or slump is often around the corner. He was probably better than I imagined this year but still a fair bit from his best.

As good as Max King will be I'm still suspect on the role of key forwards unless the game swings. Too many great ones haven't really been the difference makers, with probably no better example than Nick Riewoldt in recent times. Obviously it's important that he keeps improving but it's really hard to sway the fortunes of a team as a big forward these days. Hardwick all but described Tom Lynch as a role player this year. Jezza Cameron couldn't really get going despite Hawkins taking the 2nd defender. It's tough out there for a big forward.

But hey, Gary Buckenara said the Dees had 1 genuine A grader last year. Then this year Oliver, Petracca, Gawn, Lever, May, Salem were all A graders and our B and C graders started to look very good.

 

[staffonly]

Richmond clearly had the pieces in 2017. You don’t finish 5th in 2013/15 plus have multiple AAs all over the field, Colemans and a Brownlow in the preceding years without it. Similarly us with our injury-induced 9th placed finishes and prelim, and quite a few AAs.

Not sure the Saints can point to any of that now. I’d rather have North’s list than St Kilda’s atm. Possibly even Hawthorn’s.

Oh yeah of course.

 

[master bate]

No sympathy for freo then? 27 years and no flags? lol

A drought is a prolonged period of below normal rainfall. In other words, it used to rain, then it didn't.

Given it's never rained in Freo it probably doesn't qualify as a drought.

I certainly have sympathy for them but maybe Freo are best described as the 27 year old virgins.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

A drought is a prolonged period of below normal rainfall. In other words, it used to rain, then it didn't.

Given it's never rained in Freo it probably doesn't qualify as a drought.

I certainly have sympathy for them but maybe Freo are best described as the 27 year old virgins.

Hence why I’ve been saying the Saints also aren’t in a drought yet. Only rained once in 124 seasons, and that took 69 seasons.