List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[gouki88]

I’m going to take this kernel out of your post because the rest is just speculation, but this part I agree with.

I’m already getting pretty leery of people saying “McRae will challenge this player or that player”, “McCrae will set some standards”, “McCrae won’t let such and such get away with that!”… I mean do people really think Buckley didn’t challenge players, didn’t set standards, let players off lightly with their professional behaviours? Nathan Buckley?!

I’m more inclined to believe the comparisons made between Buckley and Michael Jordan in the Last Dance interviews, where it was clear that Michael just relentlessly pushed people to the point where they improved or they broke.

With McCrae my hopes for improvement come from a couple of areas,
a) a simplified message which our playing group can follow, despite a lack of quality on-field leadership
b) a “cheaper” head coach allowing more and better assistant and development coaches, who will be absolutely necessary to get a young list up to standard

If McCrae can provide even a minor drop-off in coaching standard from Buckley, it might be a net win. Expecting a major improvement is likely delusional at this point in time.

I think there's a lot of value in getting a different voice in, even if the content remains similar in terms of quality. Time and again, in any setting really, there are examples of people in leadership positions having their voices tuned out because they have simply remained in the job for too long. I think Buckley's reinvention after the review (more hands off, different communication strategies, empowering his assistants etc.) extended his lifespan in that regard, and we nearly won the ultimate prize - but I think regardless of his actual ability, his presence had become stale. He'd become part of the furniture.

McRae is a fresh voice, bringing with him some real pedigree, and seems to be attracting high level assistants (Leppa being the main one). I think that all of this will be a massive force for refreshment around the club.

 

[Jen2310]

Dose anyone know if we have any NGA or father son prospects next year?

I wouldn’t think so, just based on how little talk I’ve seen so far.

Haven't heard, but prob won't know until next year at this point.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Surely we’re due for another Quaynor brother soon?

 

[Jen2310]

Surely we’re due for another Quaynor brother soon?

There are a couple, but they may not be any good. One is eligible for this year, Ben Quaynor. But he is playing for a Boondoora Hawks junior football club in the colts.

 

[Seedsfan]

$1.10

You’d be happy to put your life savings on it at that price

 

[magpies42]

I disagreed with you here mate not because I don’t rate the opinion, but because I’m one that’s prepared to allow McRae the opportunity to be proved wrong rather than proved right and you’re bursting my bubble a little. He’s come in and nailed every failing of the group in 2021 in the space of his first couple of media appearances which is all we could have expected so far.

I do think there was a clear drop off in non negotiable standards under Buckley around how we wanted to play (contested ball, numbers at the contest and tackling) whether that’s because the message wasn’t being delivered or it wasn’t getting through is largely irrelevant to me. The end result was that we were a mess in a number of areas at times in 2021.

The defining factor for me though is the energy about the club. It’s shifted noticeably from this time last year from the tidbits you hear about certain players keen to get stuck in with McRae right down to the football department just looking fresh. To win a premiership they say everything needs to go right for you and whilst we aren’t doing that in 2022 we needed momentum to be going forward again which it now feels like it is.

Change will always bring about a renewed energy, but Macrae gets no points for essentially saying we need to play better…that’s what the comments boil down to. Our issues were obvious to most.

 

[Scodog10]

Haven't heard, but prob won't know until next year at this point.

If we haven’t heard by now they aren’t draft relevant. With the changes to the system escalating again next year (a top 40 bid is no longer matchable) I think the NGA system is dead.

 

[ant22]

I would say more like 3rd, Krueger won't command a second round pick

Its not a 2nd round pick. Its a swap of one of geelongs 2nds(this year) for our 2nd next year. Geelong will assume our 2nd next year would be a lower pick than the 2nd they give us.

 

[Bramax]

Can’t say I’ve seen anyone saying we will win the flag, Kreuger the Coleman and lipinski the Brownlow.

You just killed my morning. I’m devo

 

[Scodog10]

Change will always bring about a renewed energy, but Macrae gets no points for essentially saying we need to play better…that’s what the comments boil down to. Our issues were obvious to most.

Which comments are you referring to? You and I seem to have very different definitions of “essentially saying we need to play better” because addressing the lack of tackling output of our young players, the connection between Grundy and our mids, our overall stoppage work and the leadership void seemed pretty specific to me.

 

[magpies42]

Which comments are you referring to? Because you and I have very different definitions of “essentially saying we need to play better” because addressing the lack of tackling output of our young players, the connection between Grundy and our mids, our overall stoppage work and the leadership void seemed pretty specific to me.

Yes specific but obvious, saying young players need to tackle better and that we need better connection between Grundy and the mids is one thing…delivering it is an entirely different proposition. Get better at the contest, better connection with forwards all of that is obvious. You think Buckley didn’t try to do all that? Macrae has the fact that he’s new, and that will reinvigorate the playing group. See how he goes, I reckon he’s pretty good, the biggest challenge for him will be how he handles the media and pressure that comes with Collingwood

 

[Scodog10]

Yes specific but obvious, saying young players need to tackle better and that we need better connection between Grundy and the mids is one thing…delivering it is an entirely different proposition. Get better at the contest, better connection with forwards all of that is obvious. You think Buckley didn’t try to do all that? Macrae has the fact that he’s new, and that will reinvigorate the playing group. See how he goes, I reckon he’s pretty good, the biggest challenge for him will be how he handles the media and pressure that comes with Collingwood

To clarify because he came in as an outsider and specifically identified issues our playing group had we are to treat that as captain obvious (for lack of a better term)? That’s quite different to we need to play better, but I’m not here to argue your narrative which BTW is rather confusing considering your acknowledgment that he’s pretty good on the basis of nothing. Anyway I’m out because this is the wrong thread for this chat.

 

[MooreTreloar]

Haven't heard, but prob won't know until next year at this point.

Thanks Jen2310

 

[Everybody Panic]

It’s unfortunately 20%.

Reading through and wanted to thank Everybody Panic for the chuckle! Playing group having a laugh over Steele’s antics in 2020 costing him a 4 match suspension good stuff

Not sure he “dogged” the playing group with it, but that’s abysmal leadership when the other 40 players on the list weren’t doing it…

Have you met a footballer? Been part of a footballing group? Not suggesting they were laughing then, but 12 months on. If you think they don't give him shit about it and laugh outside the club then you guys have drunk the corporate KOOL aide. In no way even worth mentioning as a reason to trade someone.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

It disturbs me that there is an assumption that McCrae is going to coach better than Buckley did. There is no evidence for this. He has yet to lift a glove in the job. I look forward with trepidation to the abuse that will flow his way when he does not deliver a flag in 2022.
So much expectation is being expended on two possible trades of marginal players. Again, it is all hope without evidence.
And poor Nick Daicos. The weight of the club is on his shoulders.
Like last year, we will start with a wafer thin crust of good players and will crumble when a couple of them are injured. It will not be the coaches fault, but like Buckley, McCrae can look forward to being devoured by Collingwood when the inevitable happens. The fallout from the Beams disaster will continue for a while yet.

Good some posts are laughable. I just think those who write this dribble, are they just trolling....

 

[Everybody Panic]

If we haven’t heard by now they aren’t draft relevant. With the changes to the system escalating again next year (a top 40 bid is no longer matchable) I think the NGA system is dead.

Didn't realise they were changing it. Meanwhile we have 300 game players on the rookie list AFL sure gets confused about it's rules.

 

[loki04]

Horne is the stand out I think so North only pick Daicos to cok block us. Surely there is some sort of etiquette with GWS so hopefully Daicos slips to 3. Wishful thinking, but let’s see

Not according to actual recruiters if comments from EBnW are anything to go by.

Last one was Daicos so far ahead its not funny.

 

[whiskeytown]

NEAFL is dogcrap compared to SANFL, VFL ect.

Kicked a lot of goals in this years VFL comp... including bags against lions and giants VFL teams



The problem is that other ex AFL players in Crocker, Greene and Gowers also kicked bags in that comp.

The difference perhaps being that Hammelman is 197cm... so for mine he is more likely to provide something at AFL level than mid sized forwards

 

[loki04]

I think there's a lot of value in getting a different voice in, even if the content remains similar in terms of quality. Time and again, in any setting really, there are examples of people in leadership positions having their voices tuned out because they have simply remained in the job for too long. I think Buckley's reinvention after the review (more hands off, different communication strategies, empowering his assistants etc.) extended his lifespan in that regard, and we nearly won the ultimate prize - but I think regardless of his actual ability, his presence had become stale. He'd become part of the furniture.

McRae is a fresh voice, bringing with him some real pedigree, and seems to be attracting high level assistants (Leppa being the main one). I think that all of this will be a massive force for refreshment around the club.

Not just a different voice but a different direction and coaching philosophy and direction.

Buckley became obsessed with defence to the detriment of the team.

 

[snagbreac]

It disturbs me that there is an assumption that McCrae is going to coach better than Buckley did. There is no evidence for this. He has yet to lift a glove in the job. I look forward with trepidation to the abuse that will flow his way when he does not deliver a flag in 2022.
So much expectation is being expended on two possible trades of marginal players. Again, it is all hope without evidence.
And poor Nick Daicos. The weight of the club is on his shoulders.
Like last year, we will start with a wafer thin crust of good players and will crumble when a couple of them are injured. It will not be the coaches fault, but like Buckley, McCrae can look forward to being devoured by Collingwood when the inevitable happens. The fallout from the Beams disaster will continue for a while yet.

Yes... McRae is known for his defensive kick-mark playing style.

Normally, I don't have hope. I don't rate Sam Mitchell.

But McRae is relatively unproven from a playing sense which is rare for a Collingwood coach. The board could choose almost anyone and they chose him. In fact, Bucks retiring resulted in another coach being thrust out the door. So it had huge ramifications for the league. It's rare at the Pies for anyone outside of the trainers, actually. I think he is going to be able to rejuvenate the side and provide a breath of fresh air. We've got Leppa and Bolton on board. Those two men know footy and get on with McRae. Bucks coached five teams in his time (defence, mid, rucks, forwards and the bench which included the assistant coaches).

Nick Daicos' job is to come in and play his best footy. He's a year older than his peers and we know he can tare it up. I'm not expecting ANYTHING from him but do want him to live up to his draft position. JD took a while so it's okay if he does but the main thing I want to see is determination and improvement.

 

[unplugged]

People have got to remember that we can trade picks between the trade period and draft night. And obviously we can trade picks on draft night depending when a bid comes.

That said I'm still readying myself for the melts on here for Wednesday week (?) when we finish the trade period with nowhere near enough draft points.

 

[snagbreac]

COLLINGWOOD
Tharial Ter
Lachlan Dunneman
Luke Kelvie
Youseph Dib
Liam McDermott
Benjamin Quaynor

2021 NGA prospects. Realistically, Kelvie and Dib are the only two who stand a chance.

 

[snagbreac]

People have got to remember that we can trade picks between the trade period and draft night. And obviously we can trade picks on draft night depending when a bid comes.

That said I'm still readying myself for the melts on here for Wednesday week (?) when we finish the trade period with nowhere near enough draft points.

It will be fun when GW pulls out a trick or two on draft night.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

On what basis? The only commentary of any note we have on it from Bains and GW is that they rate him enough to offer 3 years (to reiterate no mention of the $’s) and we haven’t spoken to them. The rest is hot air from Collingwood haters and people on here with NFI about negotiations. Once we hear from his manager we’ll get a better idea on where the deal will end up, but with Sweet attracting interest from WC I’d be shocked if it wasn’t Lynch for Lipinski making up the bulk of the deal.

Edit: I personally think his true value is somewhere from 20-30 (by that I mean that if he went to the draft without a preferred club I think that’s where he’d be taken) because I’d be shocked if he didn’t play 50 matches with us and that takes him over 100 on his career. The odds of getting a guy that plays 100 matches after pick 30 are slim. The thing is we have the leverage because he’s OOC and not in their best 22 which pushes his value way back.

yup, I think the contract is the only issue. I have Sam Murray PTSD.

 

[Quicky]

Pies’ plot to solve AFL’s toughest trade dilemma; Bombers reveal top priority: Trade Whispers

Pies’ plot to solve AFL’s toughest trade dilemma; Bombers reveal top priority: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

I don't like it that we're willing to trade a future 2nd for late picks. We need to hold on to those.