List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

www.bigfooty.com

Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

Diehard Saint · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He was nowhere near best 22 and injured in 2020, they would have seen all those legacy contracts as money to take off the books.

Sorry. Whenever he was fit he played.

BigMonty · Oct 3, 2021

Just thinking a bit about player development. The AFL is such a boys club pampered environment for the privileged that can catch run and kick an oval ball. They are paid a fortune to play relative to the average wage and most of us never earn for any length of time anywhere near 150kpa.
Olympians have their own coach often train out of hours and work to support their life style.
These guys get a player development program which we as a club have by the looks of things failed at abysmally. I can remember when we announced the Saints Academy and as usual it was under resourced and we as supporters are blaming it for our failures.
Yet Jack Steele finds a way by training hard to almost win a brownlow at his own Choice training hard outside the club. Now I know that I am exaggerating a bit. But join the dots.

Players are paid too well not to be devoted to be total professionals in their preparation whereas their performance always has to have a measure of subjectivity.

Good coaches and the football department are also paid a shit load to get this right. That's what they are paid to do yet many of the coaches do not have experience outside the AFL.

Clarkson has done well because he had outside experience as a teacher ffs. Like that is the only template for success...being a teacher (BTW I do some tafe teaching part time).

The whole AFL system is a closeted boys club over paid and under performing. Bout time we called itvout for what it is.

Finnis is doing a good job and Lethlean is making waves and some players don't like it well toughen up princess you can always get a job staking shelves at Woolworths for $28 an hour like a mate of mine does whilst living in a 3.5m home.

We live in strange times.

How there is more money being used

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Diehard Saint · Oct 3, 2021

BrutThough said:
Was rumoured last year he was going to be traded to Adelaide with Dunstan for a late pick to offset them losing Crouch.

When asked during last years trade period, Lethlean shut down Webster being traded very quickly but didn't do the same when asked about Dunstan.

Rumoured on BF. Nuff said.

Hayes4PM · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
It goes against all the media around about him.

Suns interest as ball-magnet exits Saints, Chip finally cooked

A flurry to finish the season hasn't saved Luke Dunstan, while veteran James Frawley announces retirement

www.afl.com.au

"Chip finally cooked", imagine you finally retire from your dream career as a pretty successful player and that's the headline you get haha. Ahhh that's pretty funny haha.

gringo2011 · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Rumoured on BF. Nuff said.

I'm not big on ITKs but Stavro has had a very good record for a long time. I trust him over most on here. Webster and Dunstan were both outside of the best 22 and paid high wages. It makes sense that they would be pushed out after 2020. Webster should send Roughy a bottle of wine.

St Kilda Death · Oct 3, 2021

Brodie and constable are duds.
Better off keeping dunstan.
Fans hate on Luke but he’s proven he can mix it at top level.
Those other 2 can’t even get a senior game after 3 years (5 for Brodie)
How many players come good after 3 years of not being able to break through?

Some fantasizing over constable but he can’t get a gig in the midfield over mark O’Connor.

Naish in the same basket although him being an outside player as opposed to the above inside mids, the knock on him seems to be his hardness, so perhaps the tigers delisting will be a wake up call to finally start chipping in...
Low hopes on that but at least he comes free from trade price and cheap of salary.

Baker_for_PM · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I'd prefer Truncheon over Brodie and Constable. He may be no better but he might be. Naish is a free hit at some experienced filler. Worth a roll of the dice if he trains with us and looks okay.

No idea who Truncheon is but if he plays in the style of those two I'm interested. 9 games in three years I wouldn't say is "experienced filler" i guess I'm just looking for more then a vanilla type player to bring in. Not sure where he is thought to be drafted but Kade Dittmar looks like he has something and Shay Linke looks interesting but needs to add some bulk.

Bill Mohr · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Since when did we plan to cull Webster? Amazing how just like the stature of our players is elevated when we lose them, we tend to forget how good they were when they’re injured.

He was on the outer starting 2 years ago. Has averaged about 13 games a year over 7/8 years thru injury or form. Was not rated until we had injuries. Recall he was playing well in the magoos at one stage and was not selected in the 1's. A lot bagged him but not now. I think he is good value and had a good year. Should get an extension after 2022 if he holds form and free of injury

Bill Mohr · Oct 3, 2021

MickG88 said:
Media are heavily linking us with Ladhams, bad idea I think. Port will want a good deal for a young ruckman, late first round. Silvagni and Rendell both said he wasn't that good but could if the club had time and patience so he wouldn't come into Saints as a quick fix and we have Heath that could be explored for free instead of taking Ladhams.
It just shows how bad the media are when it comes to the Saints.

Saints will be behind the 8 ball with him now anyway. Supposed to be 3 clubs chasing him and he will be sold.

Bill Mohr · Oct 3, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Ok, thanks, so never is the answer.

Gallagher has put in place a strategy where nobody is overpaid going forward.

Hanners dropped money, Billings got less but can get more on performance, Ross less but more on performance, that's why he hasn't signed.

The TPP is rigidly maintained, to the point that we will have the cap to hit FA next year as well as having a go at King if we want.

Never is not the answer at all. He was tossed up as being washed up. Club never said he was going but like everything else on here it was spoken of and rumoured, got back in on Patons injury and he picked up with good training and injury free. Does it depend on who says it on the forum as to how accurate it is?

Bill Mohr · Oct 3, 2021

Hayes4PM said:
"Chip finally cooked", imagine you finally retire from your dream career as a pretty successful player and that's the headline you get haha. Ahhh that's pretty funny haha.

Dont mind dunstan to a degree but to call him a ball magnet is a bit over the top.

bird_man · Oct 3, 2021

MickG88 said:
Media are heavily linking us with Ladhams, bad idea I think. Port will want a good deal for a young ruckman, late first round. Silvagni and Rendell both said he wasn't that good but could if the club had time and patience so he wouldn't come into Saints as a quick fix and we have Heath that could be explored for free instead of taking Ladhams.
It just shows how bad the media are when it comes to the Saints.

I don't think I've heard anyone in the media link us to Ladhams.

I've read a few suggest we'd he a good fit, but none have linked us to him.

Most seem to be suggesting we are more likely to chase a cheaper back up type.

This quote from Ralphy seems to echo most in the media that would have an idea

“He's only 23, he’s in the last year of a deal, he’s not exactly cheap. The issue in finding a new home will be clubs like St Kilda and Brisbane want a ruckman, but they want them at bargain basement prices, they want backups.

True Believer · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I just read a match report, they kicked 12.19 to our 11.7.

They kicked 19 behinds and 11 OOTF. 30 missed shots! Dougal had 28 disposals and 8 intercepts as well. I'd say we weren't in that match apart from them kicking themselves out of an easy kill.

Where does it stipulate that OOTF is necessarily a shot at goal? OOTF could be anywhere around the ground. I don't think you can simply count those 11 OOTF as shots at goal.....

Captain Paddy · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
It goes against all the media around about him.

Suns interest as ball-magnet exits Saints, Chip finally cooked

A flurry to finish the season hasn't saved Luke Dunstan, while veteran James Frawley announces retirement

www.afl.com.au

That article is from August, since then the Suns didn’t even guarantee that they’d pick him up as a rookie.

PlayerNumber9 · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Has anyone else ever gone from BF whipping boy ( he signed for HOW long? [emoji15]) to much loved player in the space of a season?

Isn’t this one of the best stories of our year. A guy we all thought would be delisted without playing another game and he turns it around and shows he absolutely deserves his place.

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Winmar2Lockett · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He chased quite a few that went away from the script. McCartin is the most obvious one. He went away from consensus quite a bit. I still remember us putting out videos of us speaking to Sam Mayes, Ploughman and Tom Cluery saying that we didn't have picks for them but Trout had a massive hard on for them and would keep track of their careers with the hope that they might be tempted over. Sometimes you just have to be happy about what didn't eventuate.

As has been posted ad nauseam and past the point of extreme boredom, Paddy wasn't a stretch. He was going in the top 3 no matter what & was in the convo for #1 for most of the season.

By going off script do you mean that he didn't go with what the Phantom Draft's suggested? None of our selections were crazy long shots from nowhere. As I said, they were probably too conservative at times.

The one that I do remember Trout raving about was Ollie Wines... and I think the feeling was mutual from memory.

George · Oct 3, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
As has been posted ad nauseam and past the point of extreme boredom, Paddy wasn't a stretch. He was going in the top 3 no matter what & was in the convo for #1 for most of the season.

By going off script do you mean that he didn't go with what the Phantom Draft's suggested? None of our selections were crazy long shots from nowhere. As I said, they were probably too conservative at times.

The one that I do remember Trout raving about was Ollie Wines... and I think the feeling was mutual from memory.

Correct, we had Riewoldt in the twilight of his career and Tom Lee the key forward. Trading in forwards cost an arm an a leg, so we drafted the best rated one of the draft. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

jwikked · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Rumoured on BF. Nuff said.

The two Saints who could be off to Adelaide as part of Crouch negotiations

“St Kilda and the Crows got together for a deal RE: Brad Crouch to ensure Adelaide gets compensation pick number two.”

www.sen.com.au

AFL trade news: St Kilda duo likely to join Adelaide in Crouch negotiations

The Crows and Saints look to have come to an agreement.

www.zerohanger.com

Webster's manager pours cold water on Adelaide trade talk

Jimmy Webster's manager has poured cold water on the idea that the out-of-favour St Kilda defender could be traded to Adelaide as part of dealings that would bring Brad Crouch to the Saints.

www.theage.com.au

Not just on BF.

Parkysp · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I just read a match report, they kicked 12.19 to our 11.7.

They kicked 19 behinds and 11 OOTF. 30 missed shots! Dougal had 28 disposals and 8 intercepts as well. I'd say we weren't in that match apart from them kicking themselves out of an easy kill.

Was an interesting game watching it at the ground. Halfway through the 2nd quarter we were well on top and looked like we would win by 10 goals. I felt like we then started to play like millionaires and Kozzie Pickett made us pay in a 5 minute burst to bring them back close. They then had a bazillion shots and should have won by 70 odd points.

Perhaps the Doggies should have watched the tape of that game as it was exceedingly familiar

pebblesofsand · Oct 3, 2021

AirWinmar said:
I don't think anyone is trying to say Spook is an A grade mid. We will lose midfield depth, which is a fact and I think some are worried especially after the year we had this year.. he certainly helped turn our season around, which would have been catastrophic with a few more losses. It also makes no sense to not offer him a low ball contract unless we dont have list spots.

It's an exaggeration to say he has only played a handful of good games in 7 years - he has probably been mostly average with a very promising 1st year and an excellent back half to 2019 and 2021.

Personally I will back in our couching staff to have a good idea that Bytel and Clark are capable enough to pull their own weight in the midfield, but no need to dis Spook on his way out either.

Yep - I'm happy to be the first to admit that Dunstan hasn't improved a lot over the course of his career but at least when he started you were thinking if this bloke improves a bit he'll be a champion.

Didn't happen but doesn't change the fact that over 116 games he's averaged 20+ possessions with a pretty high contested possession rate.

But the thing that concerns me is that the likes of Dunstan and Constable right from the start showed an ability to find the ball. Dunstan got 29 possessions (15 contested!!!) in his third game, Constable got 31 and 7 clearances in his second game.

Now I've got nothing against Bytel but until he does something along those lines, the situation we now find ourselves in (ie having to de-list Dunstan) is poor list management.

BrutThough · Oct 3, 2021

bird_man said:
I don't think I've heard anyone in the media link us to Ladhams.

I've read a few suggest we'd he a good fit, but none have linked us to him.

Most seem to be suggesting we are more likely to chase a cheaper back up type.

This quote from Ralphy seems to echo most in the media that would have an idea

“He's only 23, he’s in the last year of a deal, he’s not exactly cheap. The issue in finding a new home will be clubs like St Kilda and Brisbane want a ruckman, but they want them at bargain basement prices, they want backups.

It's been mainly Facebook rumours.

Sam Edmund said on Friday 'Take it to the bank, Ladhams won't be at St Kilda' so there seems to be nothing in these rumours.

PlayerNumber9 · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Since when did we plan to cull Webster? Amazing how just like the stature of our players is elevated when we lose them, we tend to forget how good they were when they’re injured.

Spot on Diehard. This time last year I was hoping that Jimmy would get a clean run with injuries because I felt he still had plenty to offer - even with Paton fit and available.

Jimmy has always been a wonderfully committed defender who just never gets beaten easily, but I agree that many had seem to have forgotten because he’d been out of sight. His biggest problem has been that his body let's him down, and he misses long stretches through injury.

If Paton gets back to his best we may yet end up with two of the best small defenders going around.

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Jade Buddha · Oct 3, 2021

Fair amount of effluent discharge in the airwaves.

AaronSCHQ · Oct 3, 2021

Given our lack of draft picks, I think Naish or another DFA would be a good option.

I wonder if we are looking at splitting pick 9 for two later ones... or something like pick 9 and something for Ladhams (or different player at another club) and 16.

PlayerNumber9 · Oct 3, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
Id love but it was a private conversation

Geez Risky, is anything other than private conversations ever shared on here!

Well, apart from the fabrications.

For the record, based on my recollections (with corroboration from the random in Mt Eliza, various relatives and in-laws, and unnamed club sources spoken to down at the pub) I’m completely on your side - trout was completely out of line.[emoji38]

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