List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Bill Mohr · Oct 3, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Seriously, it was an example, you very well know.

Premiership winning teams need to have some solid B+ players as well as the A graders or elite.
Billings would be as good as, if not better than, plenty of other players who have been in premiership teams.

I, for one, am very glad that one of our goal-scoring, better users of the ball, is signed up for more years. We’ve got such a great list after all that we can afford to see players like him leave over others who are far worse.
I am far happier to see Dunstan or Ross and others go first.

I dont think he would be better than plenty of previous P/ship players, just my opinion. I also think his 4 yr contract was too long. Not sure why the club did that. I dont have any problem with him getting another contract though, he has the skills and is consistent. He went just ok- didnt do enough in last yrs finals and Hill was very , very ordinary.. They will get another chance in 2022 but only one.

Teflon · Oct 3, 2021

baysidesaint said:
Had an interesting exchange of messages from a mate who is well known with a leaning to the red white and black.
Asked him about a few things.
He said the talk of B King talking to Bombers is absolute BS.
He said " if/when he comes home he is only playing for one club and it's in Moorabbin.
If framing a market he is a $1.04 chance of happening. From someone very close to family.
Ben has said to club he is happy to play down back but the saints want them both up forward.
Also my mate said about the 2 academy they are both guns and Windhagers coach at Hailbury he has comparisons to Petracca.
The coach said he is a rippa. On the cusp of top 20 in the draft but doing his knee and covid happening with lack of exposure could help us.
Club is looking at 2 younger KPD as back up.
Saints were in to a very very good younger mid from up north early in the season but has gone a bit quiet.

thanks for sharing that interesting stuff hope the Bing whisper is spot on cheers

Ads734 · Oct 3, 2021

StCicatriz said:
I tell you what the subi senior coach is interesting. He's not an ex player. Only umpired. Took the colts to their first flag in a couple of decades. Then has developed those kids into good senior players.

Reason why I bring it up on here...

He seems to have taken a new philosophy to how he utilises players. He doesn't really use them in set positions or roles. He cycles them through pretty much every line. For example Mayo went to CHB for a portion. You have guys on the HBF running through the center.

It seems to have this strong philosophy of using literally everyone across all lines.

Tbh I think it works. They just seem to find sparks from unlikely positional changes. Players seem to really round their game out development wise.

I guess it similar to how ratten had used battle.

He is very strong on mids not floating back behind the play though for cheapies. Guys like seb ross and Dunstan would not last long there.

The Luke Brveridge model.

Rors · Oct 3, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
You’re usually on the $ Rors but that’s an absolute stinker of a call!

Phillips not only had the complexion of a ghost but played like one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

St Kilda Death said:

Numbers & the eye test literally back up my claim… I said Billings is a slightly better version of Tom Phillips (ie: basically a rich mans Tom Phillips)

That’s pretty much spot on. Prove me wrong

JediSaint · Oct 3, 2021

letssmashem said:
I would say Hogan was a ruthless decision...yes their hand was forced with his off field issues but he was marketed as the great white hope to drive their resurgence. They were also prepared to let go Scully and trengrove, even though they were priority picks. I think we get caught up on draft pick numbers...it's meaningless after a couple of years!

Now is the time for saints to attack the draft and attempt to get some A grade midfielders. All outsiders unanimously say our midfield is what's holding us back in becoming a serious finals threat.

If we could put ourself in a position to pick up a Callaghan / Ward / Sinn

Bill Mohr said:
He was on the outer starting 2 years ago. Has averaged about 13 games a year over 7/8 years thru injury or form. Was not rated until we had injuries. Recall he was playing well in the magoos at one stage and was not selected in the 1's. A lot bagged him but not now. I think he is good value and had a good year. Should get an extension after 2022 if he holds form and free of injury

I would trade Webster this year while he has value. Is he really in our starting 22 next year

Scoop · Oct 3, 2021

baysidesaint said:
Had an interesting exchange of messages from a mate who is well known with a leaning to the red white and black.
Asked him about a few things.
He said the talk of B King talking to Bombers is absolute BS.
He said " if/when he comes home he is only playing for one club and it's in Moorabbin.
If framing a market he is a $1.04 chance of happening. From someone very close to family.
Ben has said to club he is happy to play down back but the saints want them both up forward.
Also my mate said about the 2 academy they are both guns and Windhagers coach at Hailbury he has comparisons to Petracca.
The coach said he is a rippa. On the cusp of top 20 in the draft but doing his knee and covid happening with lack of exposure could help us.
Club is looking at 2 younger KPD as back up.
Saints were in to a very very good younger mid from up north early in the season but has gone a bit quiet.

Sounds like you and I have the same mate!!

Ads734 · Oct 3, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He chased quite a few that went away from the script. McCartin is the most obvious one. He went away from consensus quite a bit. I still remember us putting out videos of us speaking to Sam Mayes, Ploughman and Tom Cluery saying that we didn't have picks for them but Trout had a massive hard on for them and would keep track of their careers with the hope that they might be tempted over. Sometimes you just have to be happy about what didn't eventuate.

That is such rubbish Gri

BigMonty said:
Just thinking a bit about player development. The AFL is such a boys club pampered environment for the privileged that can catch run and kick an oval ball. They are paid a fortune to play relative to the average wage and most of us never earn for any length of time anywhere near 150kpa.
Olympians have their own coach often train out of hours and work to support their life style.
These guys get a player development program which we as a club have by the looks of things failed at abysmally. I can remember when we announced the Saints Academy and as usual it was under resourced and we as supporters are blaming it for our failures.
Yet Jack Steele finds a way by training hard to almost win a brownlow at his own Choice training hard outside the club. Now I know that I am exaggerating a bit. But join the dots.

Players are paid too well not to be devoted to be total professionals in their preparation whereas their performance always has to have a measure of subjectivity.

Good coaches and the football department are also paid a sh*t load to get this right. That's what they are paid to do yet many of the coaches do not have experience outside the AFL.

Clarkson has done well because he had outside experience as a teacher ffs. Like that is the only template for success...being a teacher (BTW I do some tafe teaching part time).

The whole AFL system is a closeted boys club over paid and under performing. Bout time we called itvout for what it is.

Finnis is doing a good job and Lethlean is making waves and some players don't like it well toughen up princess you can always get a job staking shelves at Woolworths for $28 an hour like a mate of mine does whilst living in a 3.5m home.

We live in strange times.

How there is more money being used

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

yep I agree I look at the way theNBA players train with dedicated skill trainers in the kfc season working on their craft thinking how is this Nora thing in theAFL. I get having a couple weeks off to let the legs recover but in the nba it’s like 2 weeks off and back working out, fixing deficiencies etc etc.

JediSaint · Oct 3, 2021

Rors said:
I both love & hate that game.

Pure example of what we can do when there’s no pressure on us & no expectation.

If we fix our mental fragility, we’ll be an excellent side, but that’s far easier said than done

as good as that game was, it cost us 2 positions in the draft

Ads734 · Oct 3, 2021

Premium said:
I hope people have a good look at Connolly , the improvement in this kid is increadable - I remember when we recruited him - he looked like a skinny kid that would need a bunch of time to develop but he has certainly developed his body and he could easily play in many roles , he is one who has absolutely massive upside.
The best part about him is he is not afraid to take the game on and is fast and has great disposal.
He is another one to watch next year - if he has a unhindered preseason I don't think anyone will be moving him from our best 22.

The other guy is Sharman , we have all seen his exploits in a few games and who knows if he builds on that and if he does he takes anther spot in the best 22.

So next year if you pencil in Connolly , Sharman , Gresham and Paton into the 22 a few senior guys will need to perform.
As we saw this year when Butler , Hill were not getting a touch and we had no one to replace them due to injury , we now have multiple players who can fill there roles.

Who knows what our 22 next year

Webster - Howard - Paton
Highmore - Wilkie - Sinclair
Hill - Steele - Billings
Sharman - Membery - Butler
Higgins - King - Gresham

Marshall / Crouch / Jones

Connolly / Clark / Coffield / Ryder

---- McKenzie / Hannerbery / Ross / Bytel / Byrne / Battle
-- Joyce / Kent / Lonie / Long / Heath / Allison / Geary / Wood / WINDHAGER / OWENS / GOATER

With you on Leo, his kicking is that elite as will his decision making. Also couldn’t agree more on his desire to take the game on. In fact it’s seems to me to be a very un st kilda like trait to take as many risks as he does with the ball. I just love what he could become. A gem late. Also he’s shown moments as well where he is surprisingly strong one on one simmilar to Gresh. I recall him being a very strong tackler and also beating the highly rated Trent Bianco in a marking contest where he took a one handed. Either way would love for him to play on the ball at some stage with his step and skills he could be a game changer.

something happans when he has the footy. He also just has so much confidence. Like a doggies or deez young player. Think he’s gonna make some recruiters look silly and our v good

LennyHayes77 · Oct 4, 2021

Premium said:
I hope people have a good look at Connolly , the improvement in this kid is increadable - I remember when we recruited him - he looked like a skinny kid that would need a bunch of time to develop but he has certainly developed his body and he could easily play in many roles , he is one who has absolutely massive upside.
The best part about him is he is not afraid to take the game on and is fast and has great disposal.
He is another one to watch next year - if he has a unhindered preseason I don't think anyone will be moving him from our best 22.

The other guy is Sharman , we have all seen his exploits in a few games and who knows if he builds on that and if he does he takes anther spot in the best 22.

So next year if you pencil in Connolly , Sharman , Gresham and Paton into the 22 a few senior guys will need to perform.
As we saw this year when Butler , Hill were not getting a touch and we had no one to replace them due to injury , we now have multiple players who can fill there roles.

Who knows what our 22 next year

Webster - Howard - Paton
Highmore - Wilkie - Sinclair
Hill - Steele - Billings
Sharman - Membery - Butler
Higgins - King - Gresham

Marshall / Crouch / Jones

Connolly / Clark / Coffield / Ryder

---- McKenzie / Hannerbery / Ross / Bytel / Byrne / Battle
-- Joyce / Kent / Lonie / Long / Heath / Allison / Geary / Wood / WINDHAGER / OWENS / GOATER

Yep I agree, love the look of Connolly. He could be a Caleb Daniel type half backer with his kicking skills and willingness to take the risky options. Reckon he's one we should absolutely pump as many games as we can into next year!

JediSaint · Oct 4, 2021

BrutThough said:
Gold Coast offered 4 years at 450k.

Not a contract we can, or any club should, be matching.

I would of preferred to give that to Chol than Billings
Chol could of cemented a KPD role as well as a ruck option. the one thing we really need.

Red White Black · Oct 4, 2021

baysidesaint said:
Had an interesting exchange of messages from a mate who is well known with a leaning to the red white and black.
Asked him about a few things.
He said the talk of B King talking to Bombers is absolute BS.
He said " if/when he comes home he is only playing for one club and it's in Moorabbin.
If framing a market he is a $1.04 chance of happening. From someone very close to family.
Ben has said to club he is happy to play down back but the saints want them both up forward.
Also my mate said about the 2 academy they are both guns and Windhagers coach at Hailbury he has comparisons to Petracca.
The coach said he is a rippa. On the cusp of top 20 in the draft but doing his knee and covid happening with lack of exposure could help us.
Club is looking at 2 younger KPD as back up.
Saints were in to a very very good younger mid from up north early in the season but has gone a bit quiet.

The Flamingo is back.... (jk, I love this shit)

baysidesaint · Oct 4, 2021

Ailurus said:
This all sounds perfect, let's hope there is some truth to it

Red White Black said:
The Flamingo is back.... (jk, I love this sh*t)View attachment 1252280

No flamingo here!

KingsRansom · Oct 4, 2021

JediSaint said:
I would of preferred to give that to Chol than Billings
Chol could of cemented a KPD role as well as a ruck option. the one thing we really need.

Chol has never paid KPD in his career at all. Always ruck or forward.....you would piss away a bunch of money just on an experiment???

Wow....

Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals

0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals

0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

Joffaboy · Oct 4, 2021

KingsRansom said:
Chol has never paid KPD in his career at all. Always ruck or forward.....you would piss away a bunch of money just on an experiment???

Wow....

Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals
0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals
0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

Agreed criminally underrated. Chol is not worth 450k x 4 playing @ Sandy

St Neil · Oct 4, 2021

BrutThough said:
Gold Coast offered 4 years at 450k.

Not a contract we can, or any club should, be matching.

That is why their salary cap is in a mess. They are overpaying too many GOPs.

Enclosed_Animal · Oct 4, 2021

JediSaint said:
I would trade Webster this year while he has value. Is he really in our starting 22 next year

Yes! Is our best small defender by the length of Flemington straight.

Geary is cooked, Long is allergic to the football and we are happily shopping him, Paton is coming off a nasty leg break and will realistically take another 12 months to get going, and Connelly is a really nice prospect but has shown 0 ability to actually defend a man

Would be a terrible call to trade JWebb. Walks into our 22

Premium · Oct 4, 2021

LennyHayes77 said:
Yep I agree, love the look of Connolly. He could be a Caleb Daniel type half backer with his kicking skills and willingness to take the risky options. Reckon he's one we should absolutely pump as many games as we can into next year!

We currently have a group of young players that have not even scratched the surface of how good they will be.

Max King could be the best tall forward there has been for years.
Higgins to me has been a great pick up and just adds x factor in our forward line.
Clark is nearing the stage he is going to be a force.
Coffield has shown how good he can be and expect a big year to shut his doubters up.
Gresham has missed the last couple years and he is ready for the midfield he was being prepped for.
Paton can play and will be vital when we play finals.

Then we has Highmore , Sharman , Connolly , Bytel , Byrne , Allison , Heath all talented with bright futures.

We also can't rule out Battle stepping up next year - it's amazing when a guy becomes un-contracted , they realize their AFL career could be gone , so they give it the max and this could his year and for a guy who only just turned 23 has a big future.

The old man in this lot is Gresham at 24 and you look at our guys at 25 - you can see we have a young strong list.
Steele , Marshall , Butler , Jones , Howard , McKenzie , Wilkie all 25.

Rors · Oct 4, 2021

KingsRansom said:
Chol has never paid KPD in his career at all. Always ruck or forward.....you would piss away a bunch of money just on an experiment???

Wow....

Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals
0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals
0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

That is why the Tom Phillips comparison is more realistic re: Billings.

Petracca is a Best & Fairest winner, 2 Time All Australian & now a Norm Smith medal winner in probably the greatest ever display in a GF ever by a player

But, nah, compare him to Jack Billings…. Terrible comparison

Edit: I believe he’s been criminally overrated by our fans for years. Certainly not a whipping boy for me, just another player in the list that people get sucked in by because he was a pick 3 chosen between Josh Kelly & Marcus Bontempelli, and hold out some unrealistic hope that he will be as good as them. He won’t

baysidesaint · Oct 4, 2021

Teflon said:
thanks for sharing that interesting stuff hope the Bing whisper is spot on cheers

It's not the first time he has told me that.
Been on the cards for a long time.

Present Not Past · Oct 4, 2021

Rors said:
That is why the Tom Phillips comparison is more realistic re: Billings.

Petracca is a Best & Fairest winner, 2 Time All Australian & now a Norm Smith medal winner in probably the greatest ever display in a GF ever by a player

But, nah, compare him to Jack Billings…. Terrible comparison

Edit: I believe he’s been criminally overrated by our fans for years. Certainly not a whipping boy for me, just another player in the list that people get sucked in by because he was a pick 3 chosen between Josh Kelly & Marcus Bontempelli, and hold out some unrealistic hope that he will be as good as them. He won’t

Jack Billing’s played the best part of his AFL career under Alan Richardson as Senior Coach. Richardson will never be a senior coach ever again, He is that bad.

tomjoad · Oct 4, 2021

KingsRansom said:
Chol has never paid KPD in his career at all. Always ruck or forward.....you would piss away a bunch of money just on an experiment???

Wow....

Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals
0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals
0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

Yeah, it may be a bee's dick, but I think in this instance it's a case of "how you use it" Petracca has always looked like putting it together at some stage...and now has. Billings looks like he's about to cry, and doesn't want to be noticed. It may be a bee's dick, it's just that one swings around, and the other retracts in a stuck in permafrost kind of way.

tomjoad · Oct 4, 2021

Enclosed_Animal said:
Yes! Is our best small defender by the length of Flemington straight.

Geary is cooked, Long is allergic to the football and we are happily shopping him, Paton is coming off a nasty leg break and will realistically take another 12 months to get going, and Connelly is a really nice prospect but has shown 0 ability to actually defend a man

Would be a terrible call to trade JWebb. Walks into our 22

Think JWeb is quite respected with the coaches and big administration boys too. They've always been fairly adamant about his talent from anything I've seen or heard. Definitely best 22 when not buggered by injury.

Ephemeral Hope · Oct 4, 2021

KingsRansom said:
Chol has never paid KPD in his career at all. Always ruck or forward.....you would piss away a bunch of money just on an experiment???

Wow....

Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals
0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals
0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

Since they’re so close we should trade him to Melbourne for Petracca. Throw in pick 30 or something to even it out

SaintJunior · Oct 4, 2021

baysidesaint said:
No flamingo here!

I will back you up, no idea who you are but I suspect we move in the same circles as I got the same information from my mate in the media a few weeks ago.

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