List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

www.bigfooty.com

Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

pebblesofsand · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
There are plenty of other clubs running with average midfielders, so if he was treated so harshly he would have been picked up on Friday.

The fact is, we are going nowhere with that midfield. It would be poor management not choose to start to try and develop our young mids rather than running with the same sh*t that has got us nowhere for years.

Not sure the conversation was ever "We won't offer you a contract". All I've heard is that both agreed his career would be better for him at another club.

The only thing I've heard about the contract is that Luke said he wouldn't take one. That's his call.

Again its irrelevant whether another club picks him up or not. This is about internal player management. We simply aren't in a strong enough position to force a player like Dunstan from the club through poor player management.

Good player management has got us Billings and Ross on more appropriate contracts - bad player management has left us with no ability to even offer Dunstan a Lonie type 1 year "depth" deal.

hangdog · Oct 4, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Means he got a reality check like Billings. No currency.

So out of Battle and Long to get us a better draft hand.

Lloyd suggesting Ceglar, a 30 year old career fringe ruckman is worth a "pick in the 30''s or 40's" to either Geelong or Bulldogs.

Guess that values Long and Battle as late teens, early twenties given their age, contact status and versatility.

sammm · Oct 4, 2021

bergholt said:
Yeah clearly he looked around, talked to a bunch of clubs, no-one offered him anything much, he came crawling back and took the deal that he previously said was unacceptable.

sorry, i don't believe he said it was unnactable.at least not in public. his manager said he would look around thats all.

Grav · Oct 4, 2021

hayes said:
Ross has re-signed for 2 years:

That’s a relief, at least we don’t have to look for another patsy now.

Rors · Oct 4, 2021

Seb resigning means that no other clubs either offered him more than 2 years or no clubs offered more than what we are paying him.

Wow. That’s gotta be a serious reality check for the Stat Padder

Bill Mohr · Oct 4, 2021

joydivision22 said:
I personally think Gresham's best position is in the forward line. Whilst I love his creativity in the centre, his kicking has seriously let him down in the past through the midfield but he's very effective inside 50. Happy with either though but HBF ain't for Gresh imo

Agree. Be a weird coaching effort to put him on a hbf- wont happen though.

MickG88 · Oct 4, 2021

Do you think it's worth trying to get Lewis Young as a defender, What will the Bulldogs want for him and is it worth it?

SaintsSeptember · Oct 4, 2021

goodie23 said:
Since we're not really going for players this year, we're joining the race for points - alongside Collingwood and Footscray. Let's have a look at what everyone's got and the teams they'll be talking to:

Saints
Currently have: 356 (picks 49, 67 - 9 can't be used)
Worst case scenario need: 1339 (Windhager and Owen go picks 21 and 22)
Need at least: 936 (Owens and Windhager go 28 & 29)

Collingwood
Currently have: 1594 (picks 36, 41, 43 and 48)
Worst case scenario need: 2400 (Daicos goes pick 1)
Need at least: 1627 (Daicos goes pick 3)

Footscray
Currently have: 1025 (17, pick 75 is worth 0 points)
Worst case scenario need: 2400 (Darcy goes pick 1)
Need at least: 1503 (Darcy goes pick 5)

Now who's got picks - targeting bundles after pick 25 to allow teams to move up the board, only picks worth points

Adelaide
Currently have: 37, 44, 62, 66

Brisbane
Currently have: 50, 54, 60

Essendon
Currently have: 51, 56

Geelong
Currently have: 30, 32, 34, 55

Gold Coast
Currently have: 46, 58, 61, 69

Melbourne
Currently have: 33, 45, 57

Richmond
Currently have: 26, 28, 38, 42, 47

Sydney
Currently have: 31, 39, 70

West Coast
Currently have: 29, 35, 52, 68

So who goes where?

Footscray have apparently already started talking to Richmond to swap pick 17 for picks 26 and 28 - which is worth 1406 and covers a pick 6 bid. They'll probably also to look for the Lipinski trade to cover the few hundred remaining, possibly getting a future pick from Collingwood and then shifting on a future pick of their own. Trading Wallis will probably cover a quantity if they pull that trigger.

Collingwood have painted themselves into a comical corner - they traded their best bargaining chip last year and are looking to bring in Lipinski and Kreuger. The future trading rules also hamper them, they can only trade their future first if they trade no other future picks or bring in another future first. Wouldn't be surprised to see them do the latter, trade a future first to a top four team for their future first and change. Richmond also looks to be an attractive team for them to talk to, if Collingwood can shift their future 2nd and change for picks 38, 42 and 47 (465 + 395 + 316 = 1176) which gets them halfway. They'll hope to get some value out of Cox but that'll make minimal difference. Trading Sier might get them a bit closer.

So let's look at St Kilda player movement. Long or Battle go to Essendon is probably not hugely helpful as they've only got picks 51 and 56 which only covers a pick 30 bid for one of the boys. Would've been nice to get something nominal for Dunstan, the 25% discount means whatever we got would've increased in value.

Pick-for-pick trades, it's a question of whether our future 2nd or 3rd goes on the block and it'll probably be a draft night break-glass situation. Richmond's picks will probably be gone, so we'll probably have deals lined up with Melbourne (for some combo of 33, 45 and 57), Adelaide (combo of 37, 44, 62, 66), maybe Gold Coast (combo of 46, 58, 61, 69).

It would cost you more to trade out your future pick from next year than it would to just use the same pick with your deficit.

Ailurus · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
I don't doubt they had an honest adult conversation at the start of the season but I think you'll find it broke down completely after Dunstan was dropped for the last game.

That just confirmed that irrespective of how he played, the coach didn't rate him. Just like most people, I'd have spat the dummy in that situation.

Like I said - not a problem if your midfield is so great that we can afford be in a position to p*** off a player like Dunstan so much that we aren't able to even offer him a "depth" contract.

We can't pick players just to keep them happy, at some point you have to do the right thing by the club and that's giving game time to young players that want to be there now that we were essentially out of finals

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Again its irrelevant whether another club picks him up or not. This is about internal player management. We simply aren't in a strong enough position to force a player like Dunstan from the club through poor player management.

Good player management has got us Billings and Ross on more appropriate contracts - bad player management has left us with no ability to even offer Dunstan a Lonie type 1 year "depth" deal.

It's not irrelevant at all. It shows where we rate Dunstan is on par to how the rest ofnthe comp does.

I fail to see how it's poor player management.

We've chosen to put more time into developing our young mids rather than stick with the same old that has gotten us nowhere for years.

That's footy, it happens at every club at some point.

I'm not sure how we could have handled it in a way that would have Dunstan wanting to stay on a one year deal.

Its obvious he sees himself as more than a depth player. If that's the case he'll have no trouble getting another big, but it's not panning out like that right now.

Joffaboy · Oct 4, 2021

Rors said:
Guy I was replying to literally compared him to Petracca FFS

Now yes, there are people out there, Saints fans, that believe he’s an absolute star, and sits alongside Bont, Petracca, Patrick Cripps. They are bloody delusional

If you are one of these people that still believes JB is on the same level as these guys….
View attachment 1252356

I agree totally. He is a good AFL player, nowhere near Bont, or Petracca. He can well be an integral part of the team though. Some GOP's have shone in big games.

The Punter · Oct 4, 2021

There's an assumption there that Dunstan would be interested in any circumstance in a one year depth "Lonie" type offer.

He may have made it clear in the exit meeting he wasn't interested in it in the slightest, therefore there is no point in offering it.

PoppedCorn · Oct 4, 2021

Pardon me said:
Good news re Ross.

Agree
Certainly a whipping boy but sides with no depth dont go far and seb is good depth

Joffaboy · Oct 4, 2021

The Punter said:
There's an assumption there that Dunstan would be interested in any circumstance in a one year depth "Lonie" type offer.

He may have made it clear in the exit meeting he wasn't interested in it in the slightest, therefore there is no point in offering it.

I think it is clear the coach doesn't rate him. It has been 'leaked' that he didn't want to play a different position and that he wouldn't follow team rules when in posession.

He made it clear that he and the coach didn't get on in his radio interview. Only one option in that case, find somewhere else to ply your trade.

We have made it pretty clear we are hitting the draft and trying to get young mids, writing on the wall. Dunstan has played 'depth' for years, probably wants a regular starting game which he wont get at the Saints.

I for one am glad he was dropped for Bytel, should have been enough to know he was on the move.

JediSaint · Oct 4, 2021

Bill Mohr said:
Based on this year, it is a big yes. Played good football. Only got beat 2-3 times and played on the good forwards. If he was for sale, he would have got picked up before Billings and Ross, that I am sure of. Ward from GWS? if so, think he has done too many hard yards.

There is a lot of talk about trading Coff and I think he is more valuable to us longer term than Webster.

Webster is contracted until 2022, so time to cash in.

IMO Coff has more class and much better skills with better development opportunity.

Hubnester · Oct 4, 2021

It will be interesting to see what happens if Dunstan gets a very poor offer or none at all.
Surely he's too good for his career to just end.
Have we put a minimal 1-year offer on the table? Would he take it if it was his only chance to remain in the system?

Unless the relationship has soured to the point where he would be a negative influence on other players, I can't see why this wouldn't happen.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

Hubnester said:
It will be interesting to see what happens if Dunstan gets a very poor offer or none at all.
Surely he's too good for his career to just end.
Have we put a minimal 1-year offer on the table? Would he take it if it was his only chance to remain in the system?

Unless the relationship has soured to the point where he would be a negative influence on other players, I can't see why this wouldn't happen.

He's already said publicly he won't accept any offer from the club.

He obviously doesn't see himself as more than a depth player and doesn't want to stay when we are choosing to go down the development route with some of our young mids.

If he doesn't get an offer I'd expect to see him running around in the SANFL and possibly hoping to get picked up in the MSD

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
He also is yet to prove he's any more than a solid mid.

I'm not sold he's a better mid than he is a forward.

Yes he can get the footy and win a clearance but he doesn't seem near as damaging in the middle as he does forward.

He was on track to being one of the very best small forwards in the comp. He kicked more goals than anyone taken in the 2015 draft before his move into the midfield.

I can he has strengths in the middle, but I think the Robbie Gray role of playing forward and pinch hitting in the guts would be ideal for him

Just seems like there is want to find every reason possible to justify why Gresh shouldn't play midfield despite his performances suggesting otherwise. Especially when we have a glaring hole in there for someone with his attributes.

He is far too talented to be sitting in a forward pocket. And if that is the plan for him, we might as well trade him because we wouldn't be using him to his fullest potential.

pebblesofsand · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
It's not irrelevant at all. It shows where we rate Dunstan is on par to how the rest ofnthe comp does.

I fail to see how it's poor player management.

We've chosen to put more time into developing our young mids rather than stick with the same old that has gotten us nowhere for years.

That's footy, it happens at every club at some point.

I'm not sure how we could have handled it in a way that would have Dunstan wanting to stay on a one year deal.

Its obvious he sees himself as more than a depth player. If that's the case he'll have no trouble getting another big, but it's not panning out like that right now.

Easy - exactly the same way that every player who is on the margins and is OOC - you're free to go and test the market.

When you find out what the market thinks your value is then come back and we'll talk.

The only time that doesn't happen is for players you've already decided aren't part of the plan and you de-list them. (Clav and Alabakis)

As far as I know Lonie, Kent and PHunter are yet to be de-listed, so that tells me that the club still see's some possible value in them depending on what happens during trade and draft, but keep them onside enough that we can still offer a new contract if required.

Dunstan should be in exactly the same situation as those three - but he isn't.

Anyway - I doubt we'll change each others mind so lets move on to another topic.

Seb - good move/bad move? I'm saying a big thumbs up :thumbsu:

- perfectly played Saints.

Hubnester · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
He's already said publicly he won't accept any offer from the club.

He obviously doesn't see himself as more than a depth player and doesn't want to stay when we are choosing to go down the development route with some of our young mids.

If he doesn't get an offer I'd expect to see him running around in the SANFL and possibly hoping to get picked up in the MSD

I know, but he possibly also said that feeling confident he would land elsewhere. I'm wondering what the outcome will be if that doesn't eventuate.
It just sounds weird to me that he'd literally end his career instead of swallow his pride and accept a token contract.

AaronSCHQ · Oct 4, 2021

PoppedCorn said:
Billings been injured for ages, one of those was plantar

Ladhams is trouble, that's why he is out, dont want

Bings coming next year

Get windhager

Gresh up fwd thanks but short stints in the guts

Gresh and Clark swapping from forward to on-ball. Would not want to be lining up on either of them up forward.

Happy with Ross re-signing. One club player, 2 time B&F. Can't imagine it was a massive contract. But in the same breath, hopefully he isn't featuring for us regularly.

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

Captain Paddy said:
Billings is a fine player. Hasn't become what we hoped he would when we drafted him at pick 3. But a fine player nonetheless.

AND is even nicer for us now that he’s on a well reduced wage.

He is consistent without being brilliant but if he can hit the scoreboard more/kick straighter he'll be more effective for us. had 70 shots at goal one year I reckon and just kicked horribly.

At the mid point of the season, there were 5 players on the comp who were averaging 20 disposals and 1 goal a game - Bont, Dusty, Bolton, Petrecca and Billings.

We know that he dropped off in the 2nd half of the year and that his serious plantar fascia injury was a big reason for it, plus he had that tweak to his knee after the bye. But to have a player so maligned able to get those numbers playing half-forward/wing is such a huge asset to have. And when you watch highlights, Billings is always so involved in the small things which lead to us scoring.

We are a better team with him fit and playing then without. And the whole 'soft' tag thats been attached to him by some is way off the mark.

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

Happy Ross is staying.

Deeps squads are needed to win finals. Young kids need senior players to show them the way, to learn off and to set standard day-to-day at the club.

Ross provides that.

Moorabbin Ghost · Oct 4, 2021

JediSaint said:
I would of preferred to give that to Chol than Billings
Chol could of cemented a KPD role as well as a ruck option. the one thing we really need.

This can’t be serious! **** me!

Captain Paddy · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Again its irrelevant whether another club picks him up or not. This is about internal player management. We simply aren't in a strong enough position to force a player like Dunstan from the club through poor player management.

Good player management has got us Billings and Ross on more appropriate contracts - bad player management has left us with no ability to even offer Dunstan a Lonie type 1 year "depth" deal.

Why would we want to

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