List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

CaptainRisky · Oct 4, 2021

George said:
Should move Seb to half back or half forward and let Bytel and others grow in the midfield.

Seb should move back , back to Sandy

George · Oct 4, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
Seb should move back , back to Sandy

I don't think so. He's serviceable enough to slot into a half back spot, easiest position on the ground and he would help at least take some pressure off the kids in the midfield. Namely (and hopefully) Bytel, Connolly and Byrnes. Or play him forward where there's less expectation on him to deliver the ball down the ground and also give the mids a breather. He's alright depth, but I don't want him having another major role in the midfield next year.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

StCicatriz said:
thats only two picks since 2016. yet i am pretty sure we've been trading them every year.

we seem to not preference trading over drafting for anything past the first round.

You win some you lose some.

I'd take Jack Steele and Jack Higgins over the 4 future 2nds we've given up.

We've done fairly well with picks outside the first round in the last few years.

I don't see that as the major difference between the two sides.

Melbourne managed to nail some high draft picks and traded in quality with high draft picks that are the backbone to their side.

That's the biggest difference between the two IMO.

Captain Paddy · Oct 4, 2021

StCicatriz said:
interesting to hear trade radio state the similarities between the dees and us. they noted that melbourne like us had two trade periods back to back where they traded their first rounders away.

but here is where there is a difference and is what is making things hard for us now. melbourne still made good on their mid range picks, specifically their 2nd rounders. they got 3-4 premiership players in those two years they traded them away. fritz and petty are two i can remember but there were another two.

we didnt do this. in fact we seem to have a pretty strong form line of trading away future 2nd rounders. which is why we are in the tight spot we are in now.

we'd love to upgrade our pick, but we have no 2nd rounder to help get that deal done. we've essentially traded away the supporting picks needed to help stuff happen with the first rounder.

now that there is restrictions on player movement (reduced cap which means clubs are tight) everything is now about pick trades. we have backed our selves into a corner where the depth we have, won't get any attractive deals to leave AND we don't have picks to facilitate any big moves.

Future second for Steele was alright.
Think a future second was involved for Snags and thats perfectly fine with me

StCicatriz · Oct 4, 2021

here's whats happened with 2nd rounders since 2014:

2014: drafted McKenzie
2015: traded for Carlisle (Pick 5 and 24 -> Pick 14 -> Gresham)
2016: traded for Freeman (2015). Drafted Long and Battle (obtained from trading our first in 2016 for Hawthorns first in 2017)
2017: traded for Steele (2016). Drafted Clavarino (downgraded 2nd rounder from Austin trade, i think anyway)
2018: traded for Austin (2017). Drafted Bytel (i think downgraded as part of the Hanneberry trade).
2019: traded for Hanneberry (2018).
2020: traded for Hill (2019).
2021: traded for Higgins (2020). No current Round 2 draft pick.

lewdogs · Oct 4, 2021

Saint Hendy said:
AFL Draft Power Rankings: New No. 1 emerges as we close in on draft

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of October and we have a new player at the top.

www.espn.com

Owens at 11

11. Mitch Owens (St Kilda Next-Generation Academy)
Best position: Utility
Height, weight: 190cm, 85kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 10-30
Plays like: David Mundy
September ranking: Outside-20
Rationale: Growing around 15cm between the start of 2019 and the beginning of 2021, Owens is a late developer who only in the last month of the NAB League season entered first round contention. His performance as a late callup for Vic Metro in a trial match against Vic Country was the game that elevated his draft standing, securing 29 disposals, one goal and two score assists. He immediately backed this up with strong NAB League play for Sandringham. With his movement, overhead marking, ball winning capabilities and rapid rate of improvement, Owens is an upside choice who with continued rapid improvement could be one of this draft's very best. Had the season not been cut short, while there is an element of speculation in rating Owens this high, with the way he was developing, he may well have been rated even more highly.
Strengths:
Late growth
Rate of development
Agility
Speed
Courage
Intercept marking
Aerial marking
Versatility
Inside/outside balance
Contested ball winning
Weaknesses:
Unclear best position
Not as advanced as other top end prospects

Has he played any footy since the last rankings from Knightmare? How does he suddenly go up to 11??

This isn't Spinal Tap ffs

Atomboy · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
Trading future 2nds has got us Jack Steele and Jack Higgins.

I'm not going to complain about not having a 2nd this year.

And we have nailed later picks in Wikie, Highmore and hopefully Sharman/Byrnes/Connolly

Swings and roundabouts.

aussierulesrules · Oct 4, 2021

Glad that Seb has re-signed. Would have put a serious dent in our midfield depth if we’d lost both him and Dunstan, and that would have been asking for trouble with Hanners, Gresh and Crouch being so susceptible to injury.

You also need versatile guys that can play inside, outside, HBF, high half forward, and who can also do run-with roles, and they don’t grow on trees.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

George said:
Should move Seb to half back or half forward and let Bytel and others grow in the midfield.

It's already mostly happened.

He had 6 or 7 games where he played as a genuine mid and the rest he was on the outer.

I think unless we get more injuries he'll continue on the flanks.

lewdogs · Oct 4, 2021

StCicatriz said:
here's whats happened with 2nd rounders since 2014:

2014: drafted McKenzie
2015: traded for Carlisle (Pick 5 and 24 -> Pick 14 -> Gresham)
2016: traded for Freeman (2015). Drafted Long and Battle (obtained from trading our first in 2016 for Hawthorns first in 2017)
2017: traded for Steele (2016). Drafted Clavarino (downgraded 2nd rounder from Austin trade, i think anyway)
2018: traded for Austin (2017). Drafted Bytel (i think downgraded as part of the Hanneberry trade).
2019: traded for Hanneberry (2018).
2020: traded for Hill (2019).
2021: traded for Higgins (2020). No current Round 2 draft pick.

I think we got Austin with a future third. Which was still a crap deal.

StCicatriz · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
You win some you lose some.

I'd take Jack Steele and Jack Higgins over the 4 future 2nds we've given up.

We've done fairly well with picks outside the first round in the last few years.

I don't see that as the major difference between the two sides.

Melbourne managed to nail some high draft picks and traded in quality with high draft picks that are the backbone to their side.

That's the biggest difference between the two IMO.

i absolutely 100% agree with this:
"Melbourne managed to nail some high draft picks and traded in quality with high draft picks that are the backbone to their side."

but i think they've also managed to nail some 2nd rounders, but your point is spot on, if they didn't nail those first rounders they probably don't play finals, let alone win a flag. but i do think those 2nds helped them get over the line. for example take out Fritz and i doubt the come back happens.

we should be seeing a consistent theme of nailing our high end picks then supporting that with some excellent 2nd round selections, given thats where you find the sliders.

the problem is whilst we hadn't nailed those first round selections which were very high and very valuable, we also blew the 2nd rounders which were also high and valuable.

the problem we have now is the performance of the side has improved by bringing in ready made talent, pushing those picks out. so we've blown the high end collateral you get from being shit, making it harder for the recruiter to get some gold, when the performance of the side is inflated from ready made trades.

Rors · Oct 4, 2021

St Kilda Death said:
Got my eyes tested last week.
How about yours.
Read earlier Billings stats are not far off petracca...
So I guess Phillips is not far off petracca either?

here’s a reality check

Petracca

Billings

Phillips.

Seriously though,
Billings much maligned for who was picked after him will play 200+ games for the mighty saints
And he’s clearly in the top 10 players in our side, and would be in any AFL side.

would be top 10 wing/hf in the league.

I could think of about 30 players I’d have rolling between wing & half forward before I got to Jack Billings

Captain Paddy · Oct 4, 2021

George said:
I don't think so. He's serviceable enough to slot into a half back spot, easiest position on the ground and he would help at least take some pressure off the kids in the midfield. Namely (and hopefully) Bytel, Connolly and Byrnes. Or play him forward where there's less expectation on him to deliver the ball down the ground and also give the mids a breather. He's alright depth, but I don't want him having another major role in the midfield next year.

You need to be able to kick from half back though. Seb has horrible disposal and some ordinary decision making. Plus I can't see him going back with courage the same way Coff, Sinclair and Highmore do.

Moving Seb to half back means we're losing one of them and why would we want to do that.

Seb clearly tried to get interest from other teams and NO ONE wanted to offer what he wanted, so why should be play him at the expense of some other young guys who will arguably be better?

CaptainRisky · Oct 4, 2021

George said:
I don't think so. He's serviceable enough to slot into a half back spot, easiest position on the ground and he would help at least take some pressure off the kids in the midfield. Namely (and hopefully) Bytel, Connolly and Byrnes. Or play him forward where there's less expectation on him to deliver the ball down the ground and also give the mids a breather. He's alright depth, but I don't want him having another major role in the midfield next year.

All things fair we are going to need to find a spot for Patton and Gresh , does he take eithers spot ? I wouldn't think so

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

StCicatriz said:
here's whats happened with 2nd rounders since 2014:

2014: drafted McKenzie
2015: traded for Carlisle (Pick 5 and 24 -> Pick 14 -> Gresham)
2016: traded for Freeman (2015). Drafted Long and Battle (obtained from trading our first in 2016 for Hawthorns first in 2017)
2017: traded for Steele (2016). Drafted Clavarino (downgraded 2nd rounder from Austin trade, i think anyway)
2018: traded for Austin (2017). Drafted Bytel (i think downgraded as part of the Hanneberry trade).
2019: traded for Hanneberry (2018).
2020: traded for Hill (2019).
2021: traded for Higgins (2020). No current Round 2 draft pick.

That looks pretty good to me when you consider how many 2nd rounders are gone within a few years.

Steele is our captain and best player

Higgins looks like he could be an AA quality half forward

Bytel looks promising

McKenzie and a Long are depth

Jury still out on Battle.

It's a hell of a lot sadder when you look at the first rounders IMO.

triggering bro · Oct 4, 2021

I don’t mind Ross getting two years as long as there is selection integrity. He’s bled for the club & has always given his all. He’s got the very best out of himself. Saying that, we will be in a far better position if he’s not best 22.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

StCicatriz said:
i absolutely 100% agree with this:
"Melbourne managed to nail some high draft picks and traded in quality with high draft picks that are the backbone to their side."

but i think they've also managed to nail some 2nd rounders, but your point is spot on, if they didn't nail those first rounders they probably don't play finals, let alone win a flag. but i do think those 2nds helped them get over the line. for example take out Fritz and i doubt the come back happens.

we should be seeing a consistent theme of nailing our high end picks then supporting that with some excellent 2nd round selections, given thats where you find the sliders.

the problem is whilst we hadn't nailed those first round selections which were very high and very valuable, we also blew the 2nd rounders which were also high and valuable.

the problem we have now is the performance of the side has improved by bringing in ready made talent, pushing those picks out. so we've blown the high end collateral you get from being sh*t, making it harder for the recruiter to get some gold, when the performance of the side is inflated from ready made trades.

Yes, Fritch is important, but don't tell me Steele isn't.

Put Lever, May, Petracca and Clarry around our 2nd and third rounders and we look like genius's

All of a sudden players we've taken late in the draft look a lot better

Groater · Oct 4, 2021

With the timing of Seb's resigning I wonder if the club had an expiry on the offer. "You sign by trade time, or all bets are off and we're moving on. We might be able to do something after that date, but we might not."

Bill Mohr · Oct 4, 2021

Captain Paddy said:
You need to be able to kick from half back though. Seb has horrible disposal and some ordinary decision making. Plus I can't see him going back with courage the same way Coff, Sinclair and Highmore do.

Moving Seb to half back means we're losing one of them and why would we want to do that.

Seb clearly tried to get interest from other teams and NO ONE wanted to offer what he wanted, so why should be play him at the expense of some other young guys who will arguably be better?

Poor coaching move. Seb to half back..so whose spot does he take? It wont happen.

jwikked · Oct 4, 2021

Rors said:
I could think of about 30 players I’d have rolling between wing & half forward before I got to Jack Billings

Bit harsh. While he hasn't come near the heights we presumed he would hit, he is reliably vanilla and gets on with the job. He's not a match winner, but he's not bad with the ball in his hands which is more than could be said about a few others in the team.

Ailurus · Oct 4, 2021

BrutThough said:
Wouldn't read too much into it since it's Knightmare and his rankings are always questionable compared to everyone else's. Cal Twomey (who gets the best mail from the recruiters) doesnt have him in his top 30 and also has Windhager in front of him.

While you are right, it is a positive that he is rated so highly by people watching him but likely not recruiters

jwikked · Oct 4, 2021

triggering bro said:
I don’t mind Ross getting two years as long as there is selection integrity. He’s bled for the club & has always given his all. He’s got the very best out of himself. Saying that, we will be in a far better position if he’s not best 22.

I can't remember who posted this, but in the last few days someone brought up that Seb happily gets on with playing the role the coaches give him without any fuss and he must be good at that, given they like him much more than the fans do. It was something I hadn't ever thought about before, and it did change my mind on Seb in the team.

Yawkey way · Oct 4, 2021

Saint Hendy said:
AFL Draft Power Rankings: New No. 1 emerges as we close in on draft

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of October and we have a new player at the top.

www.espn.com

Owens at 11

11. Mitch Owens (St Kilda Next-Generation Academy)
Best position: Utility
Height, weight: 190cm, 85kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 10-30
Plays like: David Mundy
September ranking: Outside-20
Rationale: Growing around 15cm between the start of 2019 and the beginning of 2021, Owens is a late developer who only in the last month of the NAB League season entered first round contention. His performance as a late callup for Vic Metro in a trial match against Vic Country was the game that elevated his draft standing, securing 29 disposals, one goal and two score assists. He immediately backed this up with strong NAB League play for Sandringham. With his movement, overhead marking, ball winning capabilities and rapid rate of improvement, Owens is an upside choice who with continued rapid improvement could be one of this draft's very best. Had the season not been cut short, while there is an element of speculation in rating Owens this high, with the way he was developing, he may well have been rated even more highly.
Strengths:
Late growth
Rate of development
Agility
Speed
Courage
Intercept marking
Aerial marking
Versatility
Inside/outside balance
Contested ball winning
Weaknesses:
Unclear best position
Not as advanced as other top end prospects

Absolute rubbish pure fantasy imo, let’s see where he goes.

Tommy Wigs · Oct 4, 2021

Saint Hendy said:
AFL Draft Power Rankings: New No. 1 emerges as we close in on draft

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of October and we have a new player at the top.

www.espn.com

Owens at 11

11. Mitch Owens (St Kilda Next-Generation Academy)
Best position: Utility
Height, weight: 190cm, 85kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 10-30
Plays like: David Mundy
September ranking: Outside-20
Rationale: Growing around 15cm between the start of 2019 and the beginning of 2021, Owens is a late developer who only in the last month of the NAB League season entered first round contention. His performance as a late callup for Vic Metro in a trial match against Vic Country was the game that elevated his draft standing, securing 29 disposals, one goal and two score assists. He immediately backed this up with strong NAB League play for Sandringham. With his movement, overhead marking, ball winning capabilities and rapid rate of improvement, Owens is an upside choice who with continued rapid improvement could be one of this draft's very best. Had the season not been cut short, while there is an element of speculation in rating Owens this high, with the way he was developing, he may well have been rated even more highly.
Strengths:
Late growth
Rate of development
Agility
Speed
Courage
Intercept marking
Aerial marking
Versatility
Inside/outside balance
Contested ball winning
Weaknesses:
Unclear best position
Not as advanced as other top end prospects

Lot of drinking on the job here

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

Saint Hendy said:
AFL Draft Power Rankings: New No. 1 emerges as we close in on draft

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of October and we have a new player at the top.

www.espn.com

Owens at 11

11. Mitch Owens (St Kilda Next-Generation Academy)
Best position: Utility
Height, weight: 190cm, 85kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 10-30
Plays like: David Mundy
September ranking: Outside-20
Rationale: Growing around 15cm between the start of 2019 and the beginning of 2021, Owens is a late developer who only in the last month of the NAB League season entered first round contention. His performance as a late callup for Vic Metro in a trial match against Vic Country was the game that elevated his draft standing, securing 29 disposals, one goal and two score assists. He immediately backed this up with strong NAB League play for Sandringham. With his movement, overhead marking, ball winning capabilities and rapid rate of improvement, Owens is an upside choice who with continued rapid improvement could be one of this draft's very best. Had the season not been cut short, while there is an element of speculation in rating Owens this high, with the way he was developing, he may well have been rated even more highly.
Strengths:
Late growth
Rate of development
Agility
Speed
Courage
Intercept marking
Aerial marking
Versatility
Inside/outside balance
Contested ball winning
Weaknesses:
Unclear best position
Not as advanced as other top end prospects

How has a bloke that hasn't played gone from outside 30 to 11?

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

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