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Sep 15, 2007
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Under 50 chances of surviving as a healthy person from covid 99.99%

assuming this is true it seems a shame to lose liberty for mandatory vax.

More so if the above FDA fact is correct.

I can see why the french are not impressed
So you want to reduce the average life expectancy of all people just cos you cant be bothered to spend five minutes getting an injection?

the time it takes to get a drivers license is a hell of a lot longer yet they are mandated to drive. is it an unacceptable loss of liberty when society forces you to get a license before you can drive?


i think its a loss of liberty when i have to wear masks and i cant travel without threat of getting a virus thats quite dangerous to older people and causes severe long term illness in some younger people. But the loss of liberty isnt imposed by the government. Its imposed by the unvaccinated.
 
Mar 1, 2007
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So the anti mandatory vaxxers on here … are you prepared to open up with no vaccines? Also prepared to have no one take polio, whooping cough, tb, smallpox etc etc? I mean what if everyone thought the same way ..”can’t force me to vax”? Or are you happy to say no and have you and family protected from everyone getting vaxxed?

I guess personally for me the difference between covid vaccine and the others you mention are these
  • Development time - polio, whooping cough etc are all old, completely tested, known and mapped vaccines. Covid vax simply isn't, by definition it can't be with a 12 month or so development time. Long term side effects are guesstimates at this stage. Having said that, on available data I believe they're safe enough, and have been vaxed myself.
  • Societal overreach, if I can put it that way. The kids innoculations are for things that are very serious for their age group, and are required so they can attend school, day care etc. and mix with other kids - all reasonable and fair. But needing a covid vax to attend a pub, restaurant, sporting event or concert? Or go to a supermarket (happening in France)?. Nah, step too far imo.
End of the day I'm a personal choice and personal responsibility kinda guy I guess ie. you do you, get the vaccine if you'd like that additional protection, and the majority will. But it shouldn't be required to participate in day to day society.

As to your specific question of would I be happy to open up with no vaccine? Tough one, probably no last year, probably yes this year. I think its reached a tipping point (in Victoria anyway, can't speak for the rest of the country) where the safety protocols are causing more harm than they're preventing - definitely effecting more people than covid would be likely to anyway. Lucky we do have a vaccine at this point, and are on the path to opening up.
 
End of the day I'm a personal choice and personal responsibility kinda guy I guess ie. you do you, get the vaccine if you'd like that additional protection, and the majority will. But it shouldn't be required to participate in day to day society.
The response there is whether you think things like drink driving laws are infringing on personal responsibility.

The things we do affect other people.
 

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Marcel Proust

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So you want to reduce the average life expectancy of all people just cos you cant be bothered to spend five minutes getting an injection?

the time it takes to get a drivers license is a hell of a lot longer yet they are mandated to drive. is it an unacceptable loss of liberty when society forces you to get a license before you can drive?


i think its a loss of liberty when i have to wear masks and i cant travel without threat of getting a virus thats quite dangerous to older people and causes severe long term illness in some younger people. But the loss of liberty isnt imposed by the government. Its imposed by the unvaccinated.

Iirc Australian chief health officers have said you are wearing masks essentially forever so take it up with them.

Many people die and are sick prior to pandemic - What's different with corona? How many children die every day from preventable causes? No one seems to care about those issues.

My very health coworker (runs 10k for a laugh) was apparently in hospital for a long time after his 2nd vax...

Apparently "a FDA spokesman saying males under 40 have a greater risk with the COVID injections, than getting COVID infection. "

pregnant woman fetus death, via xcovid vax sounds rather unsavory too. Etc.

These are the types of things that concern me not waiting 5 min for a needle.
 
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But needing a covid vax to attend a pub, restaurant, sporting event or concert? Or go to a supermarket (happening in France)?. Nah, step too far imo.
But it shouldn't be required to participate in day to day society.
The more unvaccinated people the more virus that is around. So pubs, restaurants become more dangerous especially to the more vulnerable. Kids have got quite sick from it overseas and of course long covid can impact as well

As to your specific question of would I be happy to open up with no vaccine? Tough one, probably no last year, probably yes this year.
Seriously? How many deaths do you think that’ll create? Judging by other countries tens of thousands. Businesses won’t be operating in that environment anyway.

Your responses seem a little insular and impact on you rather than on others .
 
Mar 1, 2007
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The response there is whether you think things like drink driving laws are infringing on personal responsibility.

The things we do affect other people.

Yeah I do acknowledge that argument, although I'd think drink driving presents a far greater risk to your fellow man than not having a vaccine (assuming everyone who wants it can actually get it, as I said earlier).

In a funny way, I'd probably be more supportive of the mandate were the vaccines an actual marvel of modern science that stopped you from getting or spreading covid (I realise that they're roughly in line with the flu vax for example in terms of effectiveness negating these). But as you can still get and spread it even when vaxxed I'm not sure its a no brainer when things like vaccine passports for restaurants are being considered. Ok, it reduces the chances that you will - how much? Are you 10% less likely to pass it on than someone who is unvaxxed? 5%? Say its 20% - still unsure even then if the trade off for that much regulation of public venues and movement is warranted. And thats before you even factor in the reduction in chance that the other person you're potentially spreading it to is getting coz they have been vaxxed.

One things for sure, glad this is all just personal opinion and I'm not in charge of figuring it out. Anyone who reckons they have all the answers is kidding themselves imo.
 
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Mar 1, 2007
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The more unvaccinated people the more virus that is around. So pubs, restaurants become more dangerous especially to the more vulnerable. Kids have got quite sick from it overseas and of course long covid can impact as well

Yep, but how much more? 10%? 20%? Is that worth such regulation on movement and attendance at public venues? Its a balancing act imo. Like I said, if the vaccine was a scientific miracle that gave you a 80 or 90% less chance of passing it on, then yeah mandates become far more palatable.

Some kids have gotten quite sick from it no doubt, very few have died though and they're in the safest age bracket in terms of the stats.

Seriously? How many deaths do you think that’ll create? Judging by other countries tens of thousands. Businesses won’t be operating in that environment anyway.

Yep, all but guaranteed 5 figures, hopefully on the lower end. Its a pandemic. Businesses would have to make their own decision about whether to open in that environment, but I doubt they universally wouldn't be. Pretty sure a lot of the ones who have already gone to the wall this year would have been open given the option, for example.

Is that life cost worth it for a return to a 'normal' society? Again, last year I would have said no, 12 months on and another year into this s**t I probably say yes.

Your responses seem a little insular and impact on you rather than on others .

Probably, I'm honestly not in the best mental space and haven't been for awhile now. Personally know a few families who are doing even worse, its probably influencing my thoughts somewhat.
 
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Yep, but how much more? 10%? 20%? Is that worth such regulation on movement and attendance at public venues? Its a balancing act imo. Like I said, if the vaccine was a scientific miracle that gave you a 80 or 90% less chance of passing it on, then yeah mandates become far more palatable.

Some kids have gotten quite sick from it no doubt, very few have died though and they're in the safest age bracket in terms of the stats.



Yep, all but guaranteed 5 figures, hopefully on the lower end. Its a pandemic. Businesses would have to make their own decision about whether to open in that environment, but I doubt they universally wouldn't be. Pretty sure a lot of the ones who have already gone to the wall this year would have been open given the option, for example.

Is that life cost worth it for a return to a 'normal' society? Again, last year I would have said no, 12 months on and another year into this sh*t I probably say yes.



Probably, I'm honestly not in the best mental space and haven't been for awhile now. Personally know a few families who are doing even worse, its probably influencing my thoughts somewhat.
Appreciate honest responses, hope things pick up for you
 

Pancakes

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The response there is whether you think things like drink driving laws are infringing on personal responsibility.

The things we do affect other people.
I view the vaccine more like a seatbelt. I wear a seatbelt for my own protection. If the driver of the vehicle who hits me in a head-on collision isn't wearing a seatbelt, that's their problem.

The argument that unvaccinated people take up more of our limited hospital resources is probably the only valid one for mandatory vaccination afaic.
 
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So the anti mandatory vaxxers on here are you prepared to open up with no vaccines? Also prepared to have no one take polio, whooping cough, tb, smallpox etc etc? I mean what if everyone thought the same way ..”can’t force me to vax”? Or are you happy to say no and have you and family protected from everyone getting vaxxed?
Hey GG.exe, check this out. I think I'm one of the guys TGBB is indirectly asking the question to. This time it's a serious subject!

I cbf making my point about it now though, as I'm using the internet for recreation atm.

But I suppose very soon, I'll be posting itt in the next few days.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Hey GG.exe, check this out. I think I'm one of the guys TGBB is indirectly asking the question to. This time it's a serious subject!

I cbf making my point about it now though, as I'm using the internet for recreation atm.

But I suppose very soon, I'll be posting itt in the next few days.
SRP/CBF
 
Sep 15, 2007
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I guess personally for me the difference between covid vaccine and the others you mention are these
  • Development time - polio, whooping cough etc are all old, completely tested, known and mapped vaccines. Covid vax simply isn't, by definition it can't be with a 12 month or so development time. Long term side effects are guesstimates at this stage. Having said that, on available data I believe they're safe enough, and have been vaxed myself.
  • Societal overreach, if I can put it that way. The kids innoculations are for things that are very serious for their age group, and are required so they can attend school, day care etc. and mix with other kids - all reasonable and fair. But needing a covid vax to attend a pub, restaurant, sporting event or concert? Or go to a supermarket (happening in France)?. Nah, step too far imo.
End of the day I'm a personal choice and personal responsibility kinda guy I guess ie. you do you, get the vaccine if you'd like that additional protection, and the majority will. But it shouldn't be required to participate in day to day society.

As to your specific question of would I be happy to open up with no vaccine? Tough one, probably no last year, probably yes this year. I think its reached a tipping point (in Victoria anyway, can't speak for the rest of the country) where the safety protocols are causing more harm than they're preventing - definitely effecting more people than covid would be likely to anyway. Lucky we do have a vaccine at this point, and are on the path to opening up.
The protection of vaccines isnt just for yourself. Its for others. For people who medically cant get them and to minimise harm to those who have as vaccines arent perfect. The decision you make in regards to vaccines is not personal. It impacts the community whether you like it or not. Its a fact.

if people want to go live like hermits in the bush or in their bedrooms permanently then its perfectly fine for them not to get vaccinated as for those people it Is solely a personal decision.

for people who want to live in society well you make the personal decision to live there and have to live with the responsibility. In a covid world that means you must get vaccinated. your decision to live in a community is a decision to get vaccinated. Just like your decision to drive on public roads is a decision to abide by the road laws. You must do it to minimise the risk to everyone else.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Except in this case you don't have to be drunk at the wheel to have your liberties deprived. Or have an infectious disease.

The 'crime' is that you might be perfectly healthy but more likely to have an infectious disease. I thought this sort of thing was worked out when gays were discriminated against because they might transmit HIV?
two massive differences Between gay people in the 80s and unvaccinated people today.

hiv wasnt transmissable by just standing next to an infected person when they breathed.

being gay wasnt a choice. choosing not to take a vaccine is a choice.
 
Mar 1, 2007
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The protection of vaccines isnt just for yourself. Its for others. For people who medically cant get them and to minimise harm to those who have as vaccines arent perfect. The decision you make in regards to vaccines is not personal. It impacts the community whether you like it or not. Its a fact.

if people want to go live like hermits in the bush or in their bedrooms permanently then its perfectly fine for them not to get vaccinated as for those people it Is solely a personal decision.

for people who want to live in society well you make the personal decision to live there and have to live with the responsibility. In a covid world that means you must get vaccinated. your decision to live in a community is a decision to get vaccinated. Just like your decision to drive on public roads is a decision to abide by the road laws. You must do it to minimise the risk to everyone else.

Yep, totally get that argument, pretty much why I got vaxed myself (although specifically ensuring risk was as low as possible for my parents was in there too, so maybe a touch more selfish in motivation).

It would just be good to know how much we're minimising risk to everyone else, when the trade-off is looking like being restrictions on public venues and movement. Suspect that can't be accurately quantified though.
 

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On Tuesday the WA government mandated full vaccination for all mining/oil/gas sector workers by 01.01.2022 who need to work on sites or visit them.

Today my employer franked that decision by mandating that by 31.01.2022 if you're not fully vaccinated then you will no longer be allowed into one of their work sites, mine or office, anywhere in the country.

The strange thing I find with the work mandate is that outside of medical exemptions, there are three others. government officials (the same officials that have mandated that we have to have it, they don't have to), outside emergency services and members of traditional owner groups who are not employees or contactors of the company (I find this one funny as throughout this pandemic, all we've heard is about the poor vulnerable Aboriginals and how we need to get vaccinated to protect them and we need to vaccinate them too, yet here we are giving them an exemption for no other reason than they're Aboriginal). This bit isn't having a go at the Indigenous, it's having a go at the rule makers.
 

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