Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[doggy_dog]

Maybe adding another ruck isn’t the difference between winning or losing a GF but that isn’t the only measure for improving our list just because we made one. We still need to get back there and having the ruck position settled or at least covered by enough depth that we don’t have to rejig our forward and ruck strategies every time a player gets injured would surely help with that task.

This x1000

 

[josh the gent]

If we had Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

in the ruck for the Grand Final we still probably get beaten……… but……… no way do Melbourne get the run of clean goals straight from centre bounce.

Cox is so much taller, and with a clean run and jump at it, he’s likely to get first hand to the ball at centre bounces over anyone.

Stoppages around the ground are more of a problem for Cox, but we have much more tactical choice in how to setup for those…

 

[unclechopchop2]

The negativity behind this trade/draft period baffles me.
We have a supremely talented list and in these past two off seasons will have added TWO top end athletic KPP at a huge discount. This should ensure sustained success. Get a grip dogs fans we should be pumped!

 

[bresker]

Half the rucks in the leagues seem to come off the rookie list, state leagues or even from other codes. I hope we go down this path.

 

[unclechopchop2]

And don't get me wrong, I'd love a decent ruck if one were available. Ceglar is getting the classic trade week overevaluation. Did everyone forget Ned Reeves was playing ahead of Ceglar who on came back in as a late replacement when Reeves couldn't play. Ceglar then played the game of his career and kept his spot.

 

[True Dog]

Would love to see Schache develop as the drop off intercept defender in the Lever style as he is so good with ball in hand. Could really kick start meaningful drive from the back half with intercept marks

I've got a real good feel about Schache something I never thought I'd say before. It looks from a far that he's got a confidence about him... As others have said we have so much upside with in our current list (Naughts is still in 2nd gear people and Weightman still has his L plates on) and with a modicum of luck on the injury front we'll be at the pointy end again. And whilst I'm in the "we need a ruck" camp it needs to be the right one, until then Bevo has to back Sweet (big fan of Sweet and imo he's as good as many of the other options mentioned with so much upside) and possibly a back up from the state leagues. I'd like to see a little more pace around stoppages and think Baz (forgot about this Kid who showed glimpses of what he can do when he shifts to 3rd gear) and Trelor will be very important.

We're about to gain another very talented young gun to go with last years No 1 and both may have more impact sooner than some think... Get excited my amigos!!!!

 

[Libba39]

And don't get me wrong, I'd love a decent ruck if one were available. Ceglar is getting the classic trade week overevaluation. Did everyone forget Ned Reeves was playing ahead of Ceglar who on came back in as a late replacement when Reeves couldn't play. Ceglar then played the game of his career and kept his spot.

Why would we bother targeting Ceglar when we have English and Sweet???

 

[Doggies_13]

With the way the ruck situation isn’t going to change I think we need to reset our midfielders mindset, we have a very offensive minded midfield, we need to switch that focus up to have them be defend first mids. We got torn apart in the last quarter and a half of the grand final especially the last part of the third quarter by being ball hunters in the midfield and allowing an easy out. Since we aren’t fixing the ruck situation to have someone that at least halves the contest or gives us an advantage the set up in the middle needs to change. Definitely through mindset, possibly through personal mixing up our rotations to ensure a defensive minded mid is in every centre bounce, structure at stoppages hopefully a new midfield coach will help that, we have all bemoaned the lack of a sweeper or the sweeper being sucked up to the ball.

Also the carry on of calling each other’s opinions embarrassing is poor, everyone has different opinions just cause you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it’s embarrassing. Unless posters are attacking a player their entitled to their opinion.

 

[Mr. Walker]

I've got a real good feel about Schache something I never thought I'd say before. It looks from a far that he's got a confidence about him... As others have said we have so much upside with in our current list (Naughts is still in 2nd gear people and Weightman still has his L plates on) and with a modicum of luck on the injury front we'll be at the pointy end again. And whilst I'm in the "we need a ruck" camp it needs to be the right one, until then Bevo has to back Sweet (big fan of Sweet and imo he's as good as many of the other options mentioned with so much upside) and possibly a back up from the state leagues. I'd like to see a little more pace around stoppages and think Baz (forgot about this Kid who showed glimpses of what he can do when he shifts to 3rd gear) and Trelor will be very important.

We're about to gain another very talented young gun to go with last years No 1 and both may have more impact sooner than some think... Get excited my amigos!!!!

I agree with you about Schache. I too was thinking that a preseason of training for the backline would be great for him. But with Bruce going down my concern is that now his position is unclear and we will go with a strategy of “cover for both ends “ for Schache.

 

[Mofra]

I like (and presumably others in this thread) Ceglar because he's established and proven as an AFL player, and there's not many of them floating around if we can pay him that cheaply from a salary point of view, but lets not pretend he's anything but a bit of a journeyman, who had some career best games at the end of the year (where funny things were happening down at Hawks anyway with the whole Clarko situation so I'd say you'd take Hawk player performances with a bit of salt).

Compare the three players: Ceglar, English and Stef:

View attachment 1256177 View attachment 1256178View attachment 1256179

Stef's body might be cooked, but at the same time, if he gets fit, even if it's for a half-season, he will be more valuable than Ceglar - he did it for six and a half years at Brisbane.

English was better in the ruck (whilst admittedly not measuring all elements of ruck contest competitiveness) in 2019 than Ceglar has been for all parts of his career, except for this weird patch of 8 or so games he had at the back-end of last year.

Ceglar would clearly be a benefit because our stocks are thin, and Bruce is injured, and I was certainly advocating to recruit him over the last 6 months for that reason. He would probably get a game as a 50/50 forward ruck with English if we were so inclined. But why are people pretending, for example, that if we're happy with other players playing forward (such as JUH coming on and hopefully playing 22 good games next year), that having Ceglar attend 30 ruck contests instead of English as a full-time ruck would be some massive improvement? Simple history of performance doesn't prove it, really.

... a lot of IFs though.
We are also relying on a dream run with injury. We have virtually no redundancy in the ruck as it is, and let's not forget that the Hawks would be kicking in for most of his salry too so we could have an extra $500k (with Treloar money) next year paid to our cap by other clubs. That's a very good player, or one year front-loaded contract for a young star.

The issue is more than Ceglar alone - most supporters want at least one semi-competant ruck added to our list to cover for injuries too. In English gets knocked out and Martin is on the rookie list, do we really think Sweet is going to stay fit for many weeks in a row as a sole ruck? And we're just going to bank on that with no redundancy? Who is second ruck in that scenaro - Hannan? Schache is not a best 22 lock and Bruce is coming off an ACL
I am still unconvinced by the strategy.

 

[Mofra]

Any gettable ruckman is average. The only one worth considering is Ladhams and he is supposedly a loose unit.

Max Lynch is still unsigned and we should have gone harder at Strachan.
TBH I'd take Lynch over Ladhams, seriously.

 

[Mofra]

The Age reporting that Ceglar to Geelong isn't looking likely.

If we are keen we would likely need to delist and redraft both Wallis and Martin due to list spots though.

We would have rookie list spots open too. Stef wasn't guaranteed a spot and would surely take a rookie list spot on the same contract.

 

[Mofra]

And don't get me wrong, I'd love a decent ruck if one were available. Ceglar is getting the classic trade week overevaluation. Did everyone forget Ned Reeves was playing ahead of Ceglar who on came back in as a late replacement when Reeves couldn't play. Ceglar then played the game of his career and kept his spot.

It's not "Ceglar or nobody", it's "anyone who would give our ruck division some asistance"
I have others I prefer but Ceglar seemed the most likely up to a few days ago. Hawks kicking in a huge chunk of salary certainly is a nice bonus too.

 

[unclechopchop2]

Why would we bother targeting Ceglar when we have English and Sweet???

I agree. Rucks take time. Funny thing is if Sweet were on another teams list there would be chatter on this thread that we should target him.

 

[adogsfan5]

Luke Bruest me.

 

[Barking Mad]

I agree with you about Schache. I too was thinking that a preseason of training for the backline would be great for him. But with Bruce going down my concern is that now his position is unclear and we will go with a strategy of “cover for both ends “ for Schache.

I’m a believer in Schache and always have been. I do feel though that he’s going to have a career chasing his tail and by the end he’ll know how to flat fetch, roll over, shake hands, sit and stay etc.
He started as more a leading forward. That style of play is only suited if you get a quick centre break aka Dees 3rd quarter. The rest of the time it’s contested stuff mostly and getting in behind the defence.
We then asked him to play that bang and crash packs game whilst chopping out in the ruck. Whilst many labelled him soft, I thought he tried playing that role to 100% of what was asked, often launching from 2-4 deep just to bust the pack open. It’s wasn’t his strength as a player but he did what he was asked.
We then threw him into defence at VFL during this year and then when injuries struck asked him to play there. Again he did what he was asked and did a reasonable job. He even had the odd member here excited about his future.
We get our defenders back and he’s then thrown forward again. Looked ok and even in the GF had a real chance to impact. Sadly he wasn’t as clean as what he usually is. Easy to say he didn’t handle the pressure but then you could label plenty of others the same in the 1st. Or does the swapping of his roles continually not allow him to gain enough confidence to really impact like I believe he’s capable?
Still think he’s got growth and can be more valuable that already demonstrated. If not, he hasn’t been moaning and groaning asking for a move. He’s just ready to play what role is asked. For a guy not on huge coin, I’m happy having him in our ranks.

 

[Bocky]

Would you trade our 2022 first round pick for Ben McEvoy?

I don’t think I would. He is 33 in July.

What about Lipinski for McEvoy? I know he wants Colloingwood, but he would get regular playing time in a big club and we get a senior ruck with leadership and premiership experience.

 

[Here we go dogs]

It's not "Ceglar or nobody", it's "anyone who would give our ruck division some asistance"
I have others I prefer but Ceglar seemed the most likely up to a few days ago. Hawks kicking in a huge chunk of salary certainly is a nice bonus too.

I reckon we will pick up a state leaguer or a delisted ruck as a dfa as back up (not sure who).

I get the feeling the coaches don’t see any of the ones you have to trade for as an upgrade on what we already have.

Subsequently they are not prepared to pay above base salary, offer multi year deals (fair enough with Ceglar) and lose trade collateral for a player that may not get a game when you can get one cheaper via a dfa or psd

The only ruck available I can see bev actually playing is Ladhams and by all reports his not overly committed to the sport.

 

[lachy]

Given the ruckman who actually turned the game around was one in his second year and played last year and also given our current key forward was 4th in our Best and Fairest in his first year, why is there so much negativity for 2022 when we have the highest rated Ruck/KPP coming into our club basically as a top 3 pick for a team that just made the Grand Final.

Darcy could be further advanced and Sweet could develop past 90% of ruck trades suggested with development from Martin over a full pre season.

About the only possibly available ruck who could make a difference in 2022 would be Goldstein but we really don't have the tradeable players to get that done nor the picks we will be utilising for Darcy.

I agree we need to fix our ruck situation but maybe just development of what we have will bridge the gap quicker than throwing the sink, whatever that actually means at other teams c grade rucks.

Btw we will have 4 rucks on our list and we can also rookie another from a state league to ensure a bit more mature depth. It is not just trade week that strengthens your list

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Barking Mad]

I agree. Rucks take time. Funny thing is if Sweet were on another teams list there would be chatter on this thread that we should target him.

Spot on . Instead people want Ladhams who is shorter, similar age who got dropped after round 4 for stinking it up by Port. Wasn’t considered good enough as a #2 ruck with them for a period. He also farked my SC team 1st 4 rounds as though he was a nice Ruc/Fwd . Never again…. Never I say.

Note same stupid mistakes will be made in SC 2022 after the same claims prior year.

 

[Barking Mad]

Btw we will have 4 rucks on our list

5 with Dunks and 6 if you include Daniel’s 2 hits to advantage.

 

[Here we go dogs]

Given the ruckman who actually turned the game around was one in his second year and played last year and also given our current key forward was 4th in our Best and Fairest in his first year, why is there so much negativity for 2022 when we have the highest rated Ruck/KPP coming into our club basically as a top 3 pick for a team that just made the Grand Final.

Darcy could be further advanced and Sweet could develop past 90% of ruck trades suggested with development from Martin over a full pre season.

I am hopefully JUH can fill out a bit and do stints in the ruck. I reckon he would be more competitive and have a better appetite for centre square bounces than Tim. I can see JUH having a similar impact in the ruck as Jackson and he will provide us a point of difference in there with his athleticism.

I still hope one of sweet or Martin plays every game and Tim would be the secondary ruck around the ground (which he isn’t too bad at as he can prevent the opposition getting a run at the ball).

 

[House_of_Dahl]

What about Lipinski for McEvoy? I know he wants Colloingwood, but he would get regular playing time in a big club and we get a senior ruck with leadership and premiership experience.

Lipinski - Lynch - Mcevoy three way would seem easier

 

[gangsta deluxe]

The club may say we are done trading after lipinski but if Sammy senses weakness im sure he will take full advantage.

Hopefully a surprise to come.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Given the ruckman who actually turned the game around was one in his second year and played last year and also given our current key forward was 4th in our Best and Fairest in his first year, why is there so much negativity for 2022 when we have the highest rated Ruck/KPP coming into our club basically as a top 3 pick for a team that just made the Grand Final.

Darcy could be further advanced and Sweet could develop past 90% of ruck trades suggested with development from Martin over a full pre season.

About the only possibly available ruck who could make a difference in 2022 would be Goldstein but we really don't have the tradeable players to get that done nor the picks we will be utilising for Darcy.

I agree we need to fix our ruck situation but maybe just development of what we have will bridge the gap quicker than throwing the sink, whatever that actually means at other teams c grade rucks.

Btw we will have 4 rucks on our list and we can also rookie another from a state league to ensure a bit more mature depth. It is not just trade week that strengthens your list

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Jackson looked ready to play in his draft year. Darcy looks nowhere near it - at least nowhere near playing ruck. He's not going to be a member of our ruck division next year in any capacity.