Opinion Leigh Matthews and that season he didn't win the Brownlow . . .

[Slartibartfast]

We dont see coach’s post match pressers like the old days. Here is the one from the game where Matthews king hit Bruns.

 

[Osho]

We dont see coach’s post match pressers like the old days. Here is the one from the game where Matthews king hit Bruns.

Jeans had a history of encouraging his players to employ the dark arts. His St Kilda teams were notorious and despised. As a policeman, he was irritated by having to answer tough questions and having his character held up to inquisition. By a mop top full forward of all people. Peter Mackenna was very good, he wasn't indimidated by the copper, as was Captain Blood in an unlikely peace keeper role.

 

[Osho]

Kevin Bartlett had a couple of very good year, he never won one either.

KB was a freak player, ran all day, quick as whippet, but had a habit of verbal sniping the umps, and they had their cheap revenge. Couldn't stop his 5 flags though.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

We dont see coach’s post match pressers like the old days. Here is the one from the game where Matthews king hit Bruns.

Man, imagine your GF taking you to meet the parents and he was the Dad.

 

[sobrave]

I lost a lot of respect for him watching that video. I know it was a different era, but he was running around blatantly punching guys.

Someone should have stomped his face in.

 

[footyfan1978]

1977 and Leigh Matthews is halfway into a phenomenal career. Up until the conclusion of the 76 season, Matthews was already a 2 x Premiership and 4 x B&F winner.
In 1977, he would go on to average 27 disposals & 3.8 goals per game.
Hawthorn would make the finals but get bundled out in the prelim no thanks to Barry Cable and his 38 disposals & 3 goals.

For those of us who weren't born during this time, can anyone give a better understanding of just how good of a season this was and why he was not deemed good enough to be judged best player in the country on Brownlow medal night?

I started watching footy after 1977 grand final, so did not see 1977 season itself but I did see enough of Leigh Matthews for about last 7 or 8 seasons of playing to know despite being a star player, he was also a legit thug and Brownlow Medal is called the Best and Fairest so no surprise he was never going to win a Brownlow in way he played as he regularly crossed the line on the fair part of playing.

 

[lumpinee]

Teasdale, Whale Roberts, Francis Jackson, for...


John Pitura.

My goodness.

i could see how youd be infatuated with Pitura,du ever see him kick n move ? man was he a smooth mover,he glided and his kicking was effortless

 

[Breretonisahood]

I started watching footy after 1977 grand final, so did not see 1977 season itself but I did see enough of Leigh Matthews for about last 7 or 8 seasons of playing to know despite being a star player, he was also a legit thug and Brownlow Medal is called the Best and Fairest so no surprise he was never going to win a Brownlow in way he played as he regularly crossed the line on the fair part of playing.

Then how did Greg Williams win 2 Brownlows? He also reckons he was robbed of a third. 19 tribunal appearances, 12 suspensions and 34 weeks. Williams crossed the line as much as Lethal and regularly whacked blokes causing some pretty bad damage eg David Rhys Jones just to name one such incident.

 

[footyfan1978]

Then how did Greg Williams win 2 Brownlows? He also reckons he was robbed of a third. 19 tribunal appearances, 12 suspensions and 34 weeks. Williams crossed the line as much as Lethal and regularly whacked blokes causing some pretty bad damage eg David Rhys Jones just to name one such incident.

Good question, although Williams was not as outwardly a thug as Lethal Leigh was. Diesel was more the type to finish something than start it, in that sense, most of his thuggery more fair in sense of eye for an eye but that should not count with umpires and probably a lot of it missed by umpires too. But Diesel probably lost a Brownlow or two from umpires not liking him. Maybe the two Brownlow's he won he would have won by a lot more if he was in less trouble.
I'm sure Greg Williams did not get 3 Brownlow votes that night in the incident with Rhys-Jones. Probably the most violent football game at this level I ever watched live. Rhys-Jones broke some bones of Diesel and Diesel was determined to fix him up before the night was over, and did.
Not a single vote for Diesel that night and rightly so.
Both of them missed the next five rounds as a result.

 

[footyfan1978]

We dont see coach’s post match pressers like the old days. Here is the one from the game where Matthews king hit Bruns.

Wish Peter McKenna had gone harder at Jeans.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Wish Peter McKenna had gone harder at Jeans.

Not going to get much out of a former senior sergent policeman.


Reason Matthews didnt win a brownlow? Certainly not his feats on the football, but he was too much of a mean prick on it. I think overall hes probably the greatest player but his ability is over-shadowed by some of the things he did, even if he had half the incidents history would of still looked on him as not being Kosher

 

[Xtreme]

The VFL hated Hawthorn even in those days!

 

[footyfan1978]

Not going to get much out of a former senior sergent policeman.

Should have gone harder.

 

[lumpinee]

Then how did Greg Williams win 2 Brownlows? He also reckons he was robbed of a third. 19 tribunal appearances, 12 suspensions and 34 weeks. Williams crossed the line as much as Lethal and regularly whacked blokes causing some pretty bad damage eg David Rhys Jones just to name one such incident.

i think you'll find that there was indeed a code btwn players that you got warning first what was coming if you didnt let up pinching and squeezing and punching
your opponent in the back of the head etc,its quite clear some blokes had theyre own code which involved no prior agreement and never involved the 2nd partee whatsoever,Matthews definitely being one of those players who didnt go by the code,he copped his fair wack now n then,problem being i dont think he was the kinda person to stop at the 'now we're even stage'lets have a beer and forget about it, he was more inclined if the opportunity arose to just belt you again,for the sake of it,that was Matthews certainly on the field

 

[Ron The Bear]

Kevin Bartlett had a couple of very good year, he never won one either.

Finished outright 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Matthews was outright 3rd, equal 3rd, equal 4th, outright 5th, equal 5th, equal 6th.

 

[footyfan1978]

i think you'll find that there was indeed a code btwn players that you got warning first what was coming if you didnt let up pinching and squeezing and punching
your opponent in the back of the head etc,its quite clear some blokes had theyre own code

Yes, this seemed to be Diesel code.

Not real relevance to Leigh Matthews though. He was straight out thug for no reason at all apart from you an opponent.
He straight out was thug to some of cleanest, fairest and best players there were. He is infamous for hits to wonderful guys like Barry Cable and Keith Greig.
He is type that would straight out smash Bambi if he crossed his path on football field.

I think this is because I think Leigh Matthews started in the 60's where that thuggery was far more common than eras like 80's that he ended his career in.

 

[ExileOnArdenStreet]

We dont see coach’s post match pressers like the old days. Here is the one from the game where Matthews king hit Bruns.

Imagine Yabby being interviewed by Hutchy or Sam McClure these days, they'd s--t themselves

 

[lumpinee]

Yes, this seemed to be Diesel code.

Not real relevance to Leigh Matthews though. He was straight out thug for no reason at all apart from you an opponent.
He straight out was thug to some of cleanest, fairest and best players there were. He is infamous for hits to wonderful guys like Barry Cable and Keith Greig.
He is type that would straight out smash Bambi if he crossed his path on football field.

I think this is because I think Leigh Matthews started in the 60's where that thuggery was far more common than eras like 80's that he ended his career in.

yes ive heard Diesel state many times that he gave his aggressor the courtesy of letting that player know that if he didnt cease belting him the opponent was getting what was coming,thats a gentlemans agreement right there,i respect that..a cease and desist notice for want of a better term,ive always enjoyed
Diesels musings and straight shooting,he was for a long time too real for for the industry to handle but ive noticed a a warming to his no BS character from the w***ers @ City Hall in the last 6-7 yrs,hes refreshing

 

[Nugett]

Perhaps umpires didn't consider him the fairest.

I love the final piece of commentary. “If they are going to keep reporting, they are going to be doing a lot of writing, which will make it a very long quarter.”

Thats better than anything that the modern day commentators can come up with.

 

[Nugett]

When Lethal played, they were the times. No Video evidence, what happened on the field, stayed on the field. Behind the play Cheap shots were a common occurrence. A few other players in the league would also go in with a raised elbow to bump, not just Lethal. Players and teams would try to take advantage, of their opponent. I remember Billy Brownless saying he would use the squirrel grip (having a handful of nuts) on unsuspecting players to beat them to the ball it was part and parcel of how the game was played.

The times also called for if you got knocked down, you got straight up and try to square the ledger later. you weren’t there trying to dive or plead for a free. So for people saying he a thug, a coward should have spent time in prison ect, There were players like lethal in every team in that era. You going to label them in the same catergory? At least Mathews wouldn’t run behind other players to try and hide from his actions, Like Matty Lloyd did, after he lined up Brad Sewell

Brad Sewell

Age

40

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

, which was in an era when that behaviour was had been stamped out. Mathews would stand there and take it.

If Mathews was playing in today’s era, he would be right up there with Dusty Martin as the best player in the league. Yes he would have to tackle more rather than bump. If he did choose to bump, he would have to do it with his elbows lowered. Other than that, his explosiveness, vision, ability to be duel sided, his hardness at the ball, along with his disposal and goal kicking abilities would be a highlight in today’s game.

Would he have won a Brownlow in today’s time, possibly not, as he is one of these players, that play on the edge, that could embarrass the award by winning it while being ineligible to do so. So umpires take points off him, to prevent that.

*edit* changed Most of the players would bump with a raised elbow, to a few others would also bump with a raised elbow. As it was brought to my attention that the previous statement was not factually correct.

 

[Seadog]

When Lethal played, they were the times. No Video evidence, what happened on the field, stayed on the field. Behind the play Cheap shots were a common occurrence. Most of the players in the league would go in with a raised elbow to bump, not just Lethal. Players and teams would try to take advantage, of their opponent. I remember Billy Brownless saying he would use the squirrel grip (having a handful of nuts) on unsuspecting players to beat them to the ball it was part and parcel of how the game was played.

The times also called for if you got knocked down, you got straight up and try to square the ledger later. you weren’t there trying to dive or plead for a free. So for people saying he a thug, a coward should have spent time in prison ect, There were players like lethal in every team in that era. You going to label them in the same catergory? At least Mathews wouldn’t run behind other players to try and hide from his actions, Like Matty Lloyd did, after he lined up Brad Sewell, which was in an era when that behaviour was had been stamped out. Mathews would stand there and take it.

If Mathews was playing in today’s era, he would be right up there with Dusty Martin as the best player in the league. Yes he would have to tackle more rather than bump. If he did choose to bump, he would have to do it with his elbows lowered. Other than that, his explosiveness, vision, ability to be duel sided, his hardness at the ball, along with his disposal and goal kicking abilities would be a highlight in today’s game.

Would he have won a Brownlow in today’s time, possibly not, as he is one of these players, that play on the edge, that could embarrass the award by winning it while being ineligible to do so. So umpires take points off him, to prevent that.

They were certainly different times but your remark that most players bumped with elbows raised is wide of the mark, players that did it were considered filthy pr*cks, every team had 2 or 3 who would do it but not most of them.

 

[Nugett]

They were certainly different times but your remark that most players bumped with elbows raised is wide of the mark, players that did it were considered filthy pr*cks, every team had 2 or 3 who would do it but not most of them.

That’s a fair enough criticism. I’ll go back and edit it.

 

[HairyO]

I started watching footy after 1977 grand final, so did not see 1977 season itself but I did see enough of Leigh Matthews for about last 7 or 8 seasons of playing to know despite being a star player, he was also a legit thug and Brownlow Medal is called the Best and Fairest so no surprise he was never going to win a Brownlow in way he played as he regularly crossed the line on the fair part of playing.

Yet Lockett got one. Because he had a year where he didnt get suspended.

Matthews had a couple of years where he didnt get suspended and should have won Brownlows. The umpires dont decide who is fair and who isnt, unless they are putting players on report. Even then, the VFL/AFL then decide guilt, not the umpires. Their job is to call marks and frees as they see them, bounce the ball every so often, and at the end of the game provide 1, 2 and 3 votes to the 3 best players unaffected by anything else.

But as mentioned, Peter Hudson had a couple of years where he was so far ahead of the rest of the forwards it is ridiculous that he didnt win a Brownlow. The umpires have always voted for their favourites and been completely myopic in their selections.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yet Lockett got one. Because he had a year where he didnt get suspended.

Matthews had a couple of years where he didnt get suspended and should have won Brownlows.

Cannot comment on seasons before I started watching but there no season in the time I watched from 1978 onwards where Lethal Leigh should have won a Brownlow.
Lockett is an interesting one given it so hard for key forwards to win one now. But Lockett was not an outright thug like Matthews. So it not surprising he could win one as there a lot of times Lockett did nothing wrong to be seen as unfair. Generally a guy like Lockett and Ablett would give warnings what was to come for most of their victims. Somebody going into the leading space would get a hint from them, you running in danger territory if keep it up...ha ha..

 

[Leeda]

Determined to prove the right of mightiness…rubber chikens only …cash cow is operating